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Above average salaries in the ME
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Dedicated

Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 972
Location: UK

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject:

justcollean, So average salaries in the ME compared to what? Salaries in the US? Salaries in the UK? Salaries in Dubai? Salaries in Afghanistan?

justcolleen

Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Egypt, baby!

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:42 pm Post subject:

Dedicated wrote:

justcollean,

So average salaries in the ME compared to what? Salaries in the US? Salaries in the UK? Salaries in Dubai? Salaries in Afghanistan?

Why are you asking me?

To refresh your memory:

Quote:

I've found a lot of info here on Dave's over the years and it seems like there are a few better than average employers that keep coming up in the posts for TEFL teachers. These places don't usually require PhDs or teaching licenses. Here's some of the employers that people like justcolleen, VS, NCTBA, Van Gogh, tacomaboywa, cmp45, scot47, Gulezar, and Turbster, have mentioned.

With each country separated, one would think that the term "average" applies to each country, individually.

Of course, you are free to compare countries with the information that's been provided, which is up to you.

naturegirl321

Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:41 pm Post subject:

Dedicated wrote:

Please remove Afghanistan and Iraq from your list, as you have clearly never lived or worked there, and recommending folk to go there to teach English is both misleading and dangerous.

I have lived and worked in both (having been born in that area) and speak Arabic and Pashto fluently so I have worked on many occasions with the UN Assistance Mission.

You say Afghanistan is 35% danger - make that nearer 95% danger.
Likewise Baghdad. Everyday, you are at risk.

The 35% danger is the PAY according to the job. Danger pay, hardship pay. Sorry my fault. Just fixed.

However, the other part: I'm not recommending anyone go anywhere. Different strokes for different folks. YOu lived and worked there. Other people might want to as well. Money, experience, who knows drives people to go there.

justcolleen wrote:

Dedicated wrote:

So average salaries in the ME compared to what? Salaries in the US? Salaries in the UK? Salaries in Dubai? Salaries in Afghanistan?

Yep, this

Not meant to be an end-all list. Like researching, like helping people, like organising. So I put the list together. Obviously your personal tastes, circumstance, reason for teaching are all important. As should you do research about the country and organisation before you go. Things change quickly. I'm sure we all remember the HCT firings.

Solar Strength

Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:51 am Post subject:

naturegirl321 wrote:

johnslat wrote:

Dear naturegirl321,

I think you may have meant $9,000 a month.

Ah, that I do!

Housing included?

That's the highest salary I think I've seen for a M.E. TEFL position.

Abdullah the Enforcer

Joined: 26 Aug 2012
Posts: 42
Location: In a hole

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:38 am Post subject:

Solar Strength wrote:

naturegirl321 wrote:

johnslat wrote:

Dear naturegirl321,

I think you may have meant $9,000 a month.

Ah, that I do!

Housing included?

That's the highest salary I think I've seen for a M.E. TEFL position.

You pay for subsidized housing.

Solar Strength

Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject:

Abdullah the Enforcer wrote:

Solar Strength wrote:

naturegirl321 wrote:

johnslat wrote:

Dear naturegirl321,

I think you may have meant $9,000 a month.

Ah, that I do!

Housing included?

That's the highest salary I think I've seen for a M.E. TEFL position.

You pay for subsidized housing.

Thanks.

Okay, so after paying for housing what does that leave the teacher with?

Abdullah the Enforcer

Joined: 26 Aug 2012
Posts: 42
Location: In a hole

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject:

Something around $9000.00 - $600.00 = $8400/mo. Give or take, but only as a direct hire. Contractors live off the compounds and earn much, much, much less.

scot47

Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:01 pm Post subject:

Like 20% of US$9,000 !!!!! The contractor pockets the balance. One for you and four for me, one for you and four for me.............................. As my sponsor said to Richard, his English Secretary,"You have to realise that being a Saudi is an expensive business !" Last edited by scot47 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

Abdullah the Enforcer

Joined: 26 Aug 2012
Posts: 42
Location: In a hole

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:34 pm Post subject:

scot47 wrote:

Like 20% of US$9,000 !!!!! The contractor pockets the balancer. One for you and four for me, one for you and four for me.

As my sponsor said to Richard, his English Secretary,"You have to realise that being a Saudi is an expensive business !"

Dagnabit! I knew, just knew, that I should've typed a fourth "much"!

cairanya

Joined: 02 Jun 2012
Posts: 62

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject:

Abdullah the Enforcer wrote:

Something around $9000.00 - $600.00 = $8400/mo. Give or take, but only as a direct hire.

Contractors live off the compounds and earn much, much, much less.

Contractors live off the compounds and earn about as much as starting teachers in the US do.

Given how stressful living in the ME can be, it probably makes more sense to just get a state cert and teach at home. From what I can tell, teaching in the inner citty for eight hours a day is about as stressful as living in certain ME countries 24/7. And if the pay's the same...

nomad soul

Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject:

cairanya wrote:

"If the pay's the same?" Seriously, if those taxed salaries in the US/UK/Canada are so appealing, then why are so many teachers and teachers-to-be eying the Mid East for jobs? That is, why don't more of us stay put to teach ESL or some other content to inner city kids 40 hours a week if it's supposedly less stressful than working/living in the Mid East. Oh, and we can still "enjoy" the same financial benefits (while paying taxes, of course).

Those who tend to get stressed living/working in the Mid East generally are teachers who are with shady contracting companies because either their qualifications were too minimal to get them a direct-hire position and/or they didn't research the company or other teaching options. Some may have chosen to ignore the warnings about these contracting companies. The benefits and salaries for these teachers are lower than direct hires with more solid qualifications. For example, the benefits for a non-direct hire aren't likely to include a transportation, housing, and furniture allowance nor 60+ paid days off annually. Salaries are lower as well because the contracting company has to take their cut---it's how they make money. Additionally, these teachers' working and living situations tend to be less than ideal. Then there are those newcomers who, for whatever reason, didn't learn about the country's culture and how things are processed/handled before they agreed to hop on the plane. Frankly, not everyone is cut out for living or working in the region; it's not surprising that most of the posts throughout these Mid East forums relate to some sketchy contracting company and/or to cultural challenges.

But, the reality is that inner city teachers face stressful, potentially dangerous working environments. They also don't earn the type of tax-free money or benefits (allowances) many teachers abroad receive. And in reality, teachers mesmerized by the idea of making big money in the Mid East also must to do some serious soul searching or self-reflection to determine if they have the ability to adjust to a completely different (or what they perceive as distasteful) culture. Of course, the employer or sponsor is a huge factor as well.

scot47

Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject:

Not many treachers in the US or EDurope can save off their salaries. At least after a 1 or 2 year deal in KSA most etachers should nhave some of the folding stuff to flash around - unless they make the mistake of going to KSA with one of the more dubious contractors.

cairanya

Joined: 02 Jun 2012
Posts: 62

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject:

nomad soul wrote:

cairanya wrote:

"If the pay's the same?" Seriously, if those taxed salaries in the US/UK/Canada are so appealing, then why are so many teachers and teachers-to-be eying the Mid East for jobs?

I'm not sure they are. First of all, given the quantity of posts, it looks like the ME recruiters just can't find people to fill the positions. Granted, a large part of that is that their pay's a joke -- but it is a little above first year salaries in poorer US districts. So I really doubt that there are tons of teachers looking to the ME for jobs because of tax benefits. FWIW, the only teachers I've ever seen even mention tax benefits are the ones on this forum.

I think the people looking at TEFLing are college grads waiting tables because they can't get better jobs. But that's just a hunch.

Secondly, the after-tax pay winds up being the same as the untaxed position offered by ME recruiters, particularly for teachers who have been teaching for 3+ years. My cousin, aunt, mother, and sister currently take home $45,000--70,000 -- after taxes -- because they live in a suburbs of NYC, DC, and Boston. (To be fair, they're straight English and not EFL. But you catch my drift.) Just as you have to research your uni overseas, you have to pick your district in the US.

Third, in the US, a CELTA isn't required, but being bilingual in Spanish is, at least at the primary and secondary level. (I'm told Russian and Chinese sometimes is in some areas, but that's far less common.) This is what blocks out most TEFLers. A state cert, MA, and undergrad in Education is also necessary, and blocks out a lot of the rest of the career changers. I suspect a lot of primary and secondary teachers get overlooked when they try to make the transition overseas because they don't have a CELTA. Finally, the tertiary market's saturated with an overabundance of PhDs, and increasingly consists of part-time work that doesn't pay a living wage.

Quote:

Those who tend to get stressed living/working in the Mid East generally are teachers who are with shady contracting companies because either their qualifications were too minimal to get them a direct-hire position and/or they didn't research the company or other teaching options. Some may have chosen to ignore the warnings about these contracting companies. The benefits and salaries for these teachers are lower than direct hires with more solid qualifications. For example, the benefits for a non-direct hire aren't likely to include a transportation, housing, and furniture allowance nor 60+ paid days off annually. Salaries are lower as well because the contracting company has to take their cut---it's how they make money. Additionally, these teachers' working and living situations tend to be less than ideal. Then there are those newcomers who, for whatever reason, didn't learn about the country's culture and how things are processed/handled before they agreed to hop on the plane. Frankly, not everyone is cut out for living or working in the region; it's not surprising that most of the posts throughout these Mid East forums relate to some sketchy contracting company and/or to cultural challenges.

But, the reality is that inner city teachers face stressful, potentially dangerous working environments. They also don't earn the type of tax-free money or benefits (allowances) many teachers abroad receive. And in reality, teachers mesmerized by the idea of making big money in the Mid East also must to do some serious soul searching or self-reflection to determine if they have the ability to adjust to a completely different (or what they perceive as distasteful) culture. Of course, the employer or sponsor is a huge factor as well.

Yes, not everyone's cut out for the ME. But even the people who are cut out for it are stressed out by it, at least judging by the blogs which seem to be a better window on lifestyle issues.

But another thing I've also noticed that's true is that people who are overly concerned about taxes should probably talk to a tax lawyer. In my experience, many of them are much more miserable than they have to be because they're being penny wise and pound foolish. There's no need to take a job overseas to get the income tax exclusion when you can pay $500 and have the lawyer write everything off. There are exclusions and deductions for everything.

cairanya

Joined: 02 Jun 2012
Posts: 62

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:15 am Post subject:

Also, I did the Peace Corps alternative route to certification in NYC in the Bronx. They're not as safe as the suburban school I went to, but they're not as unsafe as you're making them out to be. After all, the sad fact is that most of the kids who don't want to be there leave. Strangely, I had far more problems with crime (theft from my apartment and desk!) in my Chinese school than I ever did in the Bronx. The issue with the Bronx is getting home at night. YMMV, though.

nomad soul

Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject:

cairanya wrote:

First of all, given the quantity of posts, it looks like the ME recruiters just can't find people to fill the positions. Granted, a large part of that is that their pay's a joke -- but it is a little above first year salaries in poorer US districts.

Those ME recruiters are constantly trying to fill positions because 1) some teachers (smartly) back out of the deal at the last minute due to either cold feet or a better job offer; 2) they have to replace teachers who were later deemed unsuitable for whatever reason and given the boot; 3) they can't find enough qualified victims... er, teachers to fill the demand; and 4) there's that revolving door factor in which new teachers need to be brought in to replace departing teachers who had decided they'd had enough of business visit visa runs and of the stressful uncertainty of working for dodgy contracting companies. It's all interconnected. By contrast, you rarely see direct-hire opportunities constantly advertised.

and wrote:

I think the people looking at TEFLing are college grads waiting tables because they can't get better jobs. But that's just a hunch.

Uh, maybe that describes you, but it certainly doesn't fit me as someone who transitioned into TEFL after a lucrative career in another field. I'm sure that's not the case for other EFL teachers in the region as well, especially since many of us have masters degrees, EFL credentials, and/or umpteen years of teaching experience abroad. In fact, that likely doesn't describe many teachers with minimal qualifications.

and wrote:

Yes, not everyone's cut out for the ME. But even the people who are cut out for it are stressed out by it, at least judging by the blogs which seem to be a better window on lifestyle issues.

Life is stressful regardless of where one chooses to live or do for a living. That was my point about doing some honest soul searching before deciding to leap into a very foreign culture; tolerance is key. And yes, I too get stressed out, but it's usually over the same things that irk me when I'm in the US. I just try to take everything in stride by finding the positives about living in the Kingdom and letting that outweigh the negatives.

and lastly, wrote:

Secondly, the after-tax pay winds up being the same as the untaxed position offered by ME recruiters, particularly for teachers who have been teaching for 3+ years. My cousin, aunt, mother, and sister currently take home $45,000--70,000 -- after taxes -- because they live in a suburbs of NYC, DC, and Boston. (To be fair, they're straight English and not EFL. But you catch my drift.) Just as you have to research your uni overseas, you have to pick your district in the US.

But another thing I've also noticed that's true is that people who are overly concerned about taxes should probably talk to a tax lawyer. In my experience, many of them are much more miserable than they have to be because they're being penny wise and pound foolish. There's no need to take a job overseas to get the income tax exclusion when you can pay $500 and have the lawyer write everything off. There are exclusions and deductions for everything.

You might reread my post---the focus of my response wasn't about taxes. It was to illustrate how an attractive, tax-free salary and employer-provided benefits like housing, transportation, and furniture allowances offer teachers in the Gulf more opportunities for saving than teachers in say, the US, where the net (after-tax) pay is further reduced by taxed purchases, rent/mortgage payments, high fuel costs, etc. Moreover, there are major differences between the better, direct-hire teaching opportunities and the lower-paying teaching situations with ME contracting companies.

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