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A Cautionary Tale
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 493
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do people often display a "different morality when abroad"? Hell, yeah! Back when I was young, I worked as a bartender for a summer in a Greek tourist island and it was a real eye-opener! Indeed, if I hadn't seen the extent of some of the debauchery that seemingly everyday people indulged in, I wouldn't have believed it Shocked. Ditto when it comes to the fleshpots of Southeast Asia. I bet a lot of the tourists who partake in the 'bar scenes' of Bangkok, Phuket, Phnom Penh, Manila etc., etc., probably wouldn't dream of going with a 'working girl' in their home countries, but when they come over this way, hey, no problem.
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steki47 wrote:
scot47 wrote:
Diffrreent morality when "abroad" ?Read all about it in the novels of Conrad or Somerset Maugham.


Williams Burroughs, Ernest Hemingway and Paul Gaugin built whole careers on being dirtbag expats.

Just carrying on a fine tradition! Very Happy


They may have done well enough out of it, but sleazy or not, did they indulge in illegal acts? Thinking you're above the law in an 'exotic' place can land you in the slammer, or worse, fast enough.

Sometimes people find themselves on a path they think they can’t get off - and so off they go - hurtling headlong into the abyss. (Or, as in this case, on a local train that stops at every station first.)
And on that joyful, uplifting note...
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Bat_Guano



Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Medan

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

artemisia wrote:
steki47 wrote:
scot47 wrote:
Diffrreent morality when "abroad" ?Read all about it in the novels of Conrad or Somerset Maugham.


Williams Burroughs, Ernest Hemingway and Paul Gaugin built whole careers on being dirtbag expats.

Just carrying on a fine tradition! Very Happy


They may have done well enough out of it, but sleazy or not, did they indulge in illegal acts? Thinking you're above the law in an 'exotic' place can land you in the slammer, or worse, fast enough.

Sometimes people find themselves on a path they think they can’t get off - and so off they go - hurtling headlong into the abyss. (Or, as in this case, on a local train that stops at every station first.)
And on that joyful, uplifting note...


Burroughs? William S? Did he indulge in ''illegal acts''?

Well, he did claim the shooting death of his wife was an accident when playing a game of "William Tell", and that may have been true, but... did William Burroughs engage in illegal acts? Seriously???

Weeeell, my old pal Doctor Benway once said, "Don't do the crme, if you can't do the time"... right, Fred?
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bat_Guano wrote:
..but... did William Burroughs engage in illegal acts? Seriously???

Yes, seriously. I don't know the details of William Burroughs' life. It looks like family money got him out of a few things - probably not what an average traveller abroad could rely on. It is possible to just add information or a comment without that incredulous note.
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steki47



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 658
Location: BFE Inaka

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

artemisia wrote:
They may have done well enough out of it, but sleazy or not, did they indulge in illegal acts?


Burroughs and crime are like peanut butter and jelly!

Quote:
Although William Burroughs was frequently arrested, for crimes ranging from petty theft to homicide, he never spent any time in jail.


http://www.academia.edu/1673992/_For_the_most_part_unpunished_-_Crime_in_William_Burroughs

Guns, drugs, certain sex laws, etc.

Even his writing is considered criminal:
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/william_burroughs_trial_turkish_morality
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burroughs was a bad lad, wasn’t he? All three “dirtbag expats” lived life close to the edge as many of the great artists did. I love Gauguin’s paintings, but probably shouldn’t on principle.

Thanks for the info posted, Steki47. I’m afraid I can't agree with your analogy. I’ve always considered the act of putting peanut butter and jelly (jam?) together in a sandwich to be a crime against nature itself.
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Bat_Guano



Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Medan

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artemisia, sorry for any hurt feelings, as I didn't intend my reply to be personally disparaging, but I do consider the incredulity to be an integral component of my comment...

A member of my immediate family told me long ago that she had engaged in small-volume drug smuggling (as well as, certainly, recreational use) when visiting another immediate family member then living in Singapore. She was only about seventeen or eighteen at the time but was already "living beyond the law" both at home and abroad in the same way that millions of kids do (a bit more extremely than some, though certainly less so than others). She didn't get caught . If she had been caught and landed in prison, possibly on Death Row , would I have felt sorry for her, as well as for my family? Of course so, but even at her age she was aware of the harsh penalties and nobody and nothing was "making" her do it. Unlike Ms. Gregory or the older woman recently sentenced to death in Bali, she was NOT in a "desperate situation" - she was young and stupid and sure that she was too "special" to get caught, I suppose. She did it for the thrill of it, I think, as well as for the money and drugs involved.

Do I feel sympathy for the Ms. Gregorys, Schapelle Corbys and Lindsay Sandifords of the world? Sure, especially so IF they were acting under duress or threat of violence to their family by criminals (Ms. Sandiford's claim) or IF the drugs were planted in their luggage by unknown third parties without their knowledge, much less consent (Ms. Corby's claim). Of course I have no way of knowing if these claims are true, but they very possibly may be, such things happen to be sure and if true, what a nightmarish situation to endure... but the laws and penalties vis-a-vis drug smuggling are well-adverised by and about countries such as Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, China, etc, and if one chooses to run that risk, God have mercy on them, amin.
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bat_Guano wrote:
Artemisia, sorry for any hurt feelings, as I didn't intend my reply to be personally disparaging, but I do consider the incredulity to be an integral component of my comment...

No feelings to hurt since I don't consider knowledge of Burroughs' personal life to be at all essential... I'm sure it's an interesting topic for some and would no doubt help to inform their reading of his work.

My point (earlier) was that some people are arrogant and think the law doesn't apply to them while others are too trusting and easily led astray. They don't seem to realise how important their lives are to them until they're about to lose those lives. This doesn't excuse getting involved in criminal behaviour while abroad, but there are plenty who are on the lookout for the kinds of people they know they can use. Those who prey upon and 'recruit' others melt away when the spotlight and glare of publicity falls on the unfortunate ones who are caught.
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jaffa



Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 308

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once met a Brazilian guy in China who had just served a 2 year sentence in Japan for drug (pot) smuggling.

When I asked for his name, he said, "I'm Foot Soldier. Foot Soldier on spaceship earth, man."
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Bat_Guano



Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Medan

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walk the wheel with us, Foot Soldier... oops sorry, wrong forum. H-A-Y-S? Viliam H-A-Y-S?
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