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Honda Wins - Japanese, Chinese or Indonesian?
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robfir



Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, England

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:08 am    Post subject: Honda Wins - Japanese, Chinese or Indonesian? Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

So, you've hear this before: I'm thinking of buying a Honda Win, and searching here and elsewhere has only made me more muddled.

My Vietnamese girlfriend's uncle has offered me an old one for 8 million (approx. $400), he say's that's Japanese made.

There are others advertised on Craigslist for about $200 to $300, but if they're the Chinese copies I'm assured exist then I'm told we'd expect a lower price and for good reason.

One of them has an "Indonesia" badge on the front instead of "Win 100". The owner thinks it's Indonesian made and has a 110cc engine.

I've heard that quality can be ordered, highest to lowest: Japanese, Indonesian, Chinese.

But I'm very dubious of my ability to distinguish between these alleged three variants of Win.
Also these are old - say one came to Vietnam, from Japan, 15 years ago. How many of its parts have since been replaced by Vietnamese/Chinese parts?
I'm inclined to doubt that even Vietnamese people can look at these bikes and sort them into three tiers of manufacturing quality, especially considering the mystery of what's gone on (abuse/maintenance/part-replacement) in the intervening years. I'm told Vietnamese people rarely buy second-hand motorbikes from outside of their families largely because of this.

And another thing; were Honda Wins ever really manufactured in Japan? I'm of the understanding that countries like Japan design motorbikes and manufaturing processes for them, then have that manufacturing done in places like China.

So, in short, I'm pretty confused about whether I care where an old motorbike was made, whether I can really know where an old motorbike was made, and which (considering the price difference) of these three versions I'd want if I could distinguish them.
I only plan to be here for six months anyway - if I buy a $200 Chinese Win instead of her uncle's $400 one am I likely to spend more than $200 on repairs in six months? I doubt that! Though it is of course annoying to have those repairs done at all.

And just one last thing - I'm very tall and the Win, although tall, does have high footpegs so my knees are fairly near my ears; but can I hope for any better in a country where the majority of consumers stand well below my shoulders? If anyone knows of something more suitable than a Win please shout out!

Many thanks, Rob.
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biliana



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 53
Location: Vietnam

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the Motorbike Registration Certificate, under 'Brand'

If it says "Honda' it's had Honda quality checks. I would say it doesn't matter where it was made.

This "Chinese" stuff is all nonsense.
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robfir



Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, England

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh! That document check sounds like a good idea, thanks Smile
When you say the Chinese stuff is nonsense do you mean that Chinese copies of Wins exist and are nonsensically bad, or is the idea that they exist nonsense?
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biliana



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 53
Location: Vietnam

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I just mean trashing Chinese products per se is way off the mark. I have a "Great Wall" notebook I bought several years ago at half the price of a Sony.
I still have it at home now.

Yes, I believe there are Chinese 'copies' of all sorts of bikes (snollygoster tried to sell his years back when he left Vietnam for the perfect job) I wouldn't touch a copy of anything no matter where it was made.

The registration document is your safest bet. if it's Honda, it's good. If it's not manufactured at a Honda plant it won't have Honda on the brand.

I also agree with you about the exchanging of parts here by street mechanics.

I hope Mark in Saigon pitches in here, he knows his stuff.
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robfir



Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, England

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool thanks, this "Honda on the documents" sounds like it clears things up considerably.

Yeah I've noticed Mark's into his classic bikes and is often searching for good mechanics! I've seen a workshop off Phan Xich Long that seems to often cater for very shiny "character" bikes, but I haven't had a motorbike problem yet on which to test them!

I just rode an "Indonesia" Win, asking price $300. In some ways it was nicer than the $380 (more accurate conversion rate) Honda my girlfriend's uncle is offering me, but the quality seemed a bit lower for the most part and, crucially for me, the distance from the seat to the pegs seemed even shorter than the $380 one!

If people are interested in what's being offered at what prices I can describe what I've seen later; now though I better get ready for work!

See ya tomorrow,
Rob.
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BenE



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a 1 year old 'Detech' WIN for $220 (4 million) in 2009. I sold it for about $175 and last I heard the guy I sold it to (Vietnamese) made a profit by selling it onto a guy who then made more profit selling it to a foreigner.

$380 or $300 seems awfully steep but then they've become 'cool' with the expats and backpackers alike. This I think is also the price for a Chinese one. The genuine ones are a bit more expensive from what I've heard unless you've got yourself a good deal.

Personally I'd say steer clear of them as their reliability is horrendous. A motorbike should not need to visit the mechanic for repairs every month.
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 778

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not very much up to speed on the Wins. I personally would not worry so much about where it was built, although all my VN friends disagree on that, but my logic is if it is a $200 bike and IF it feels good when you test it out, 200 bucks is not much for a bike. My VN mechanic says if it has the electric start it is Chinese and so stay away, but the VN are sooo biased against the Chinese. The other thing is, no matter what you have, if it is older, you don't know what they have been putting on it anyway. I have had carbs replaced for 5 bucks or so on mine. You know how much a carb should cost in the west? Some of this stuff works okay, some of it doesn't, at 5 bucks, who cares? What you have to do is develop a relationship with your mechanic and pound him on the concept of getting better parts for your machine, and being proactive on fixing things as he spots them. I would guess all the old Hondas have all kinds of Chinese parts all thru them, including engine internals. I have had good rebuilds and not so good rebuilds. As cheap as they can be, the time and aggravation is the issue, not the cost. These Hondas are fairly simple machines, which is one of the reasons they are such great bikes. The acid test is just to warm it up, see if it runs smoothly without dying, see if it smokes, then see how it likes running thru the gears. If it loves to be pushed around, if it doesn't have stupid vibrations or noises, if it stops good, if the lights and horn work, you are fine. Sprinkle a little holy water on it and away you go. Do make sure the VIN matches on the frame, the engine and the registration.

I have been amazed how Wins were almost never for sale on Craigslist here, then suddenly this big HCMC to Ha Noi motorbike journey became very popular, and the Win became the motorbike of choice for this. Now, CL constantly has this churn of Wins that have made the trip. Some of them are being sold at very low prices, as the guys need to dump them and get on with the next leg of their travels. For anyone wanting to know more about this, do the search on youtube for the top gear trip. 3 guys, one had a Cub, one a Minsk and one had a Vespa. Anyway, main thing was, they got a lot of people hot to do this trip. So, the VN dealers who service this group seem to find the Win to be the machine they want to sell, likely they make the most profit off of it. Plus, the Win has a 100 or 110 cc engine and the manual clutch. The manual clutch is a pain in the butt in heavy stop and go traffic, but it is a great configuration for the hills of the north. Plus the 100/110 is nice to have on the hills and highways, as opposed to a 70 or 50. Then as we know, these simpler style Hondas are easy to get parts for and to fix. Some of these flash bikes would be hard to get fixed in the boonies, but the old Hondas are so generic that parts interchange very nicely between models.

I like the Win okay, am thinking about getting one myself as they are so cheap and also because one could (legally) boost the engine more easily than the 67. However, for my money, a well sorted Cub is the best all around bike in VN, followed by a modified 67. This assumes you have moved up to a higher displacement and have a 4 speed on the Cub (the older ones were 50 cc and 3 speed). Now, on the hauling ass highway, there are smoother and faster bikes, no doubt, but my 67 will freaking fly, and my Cub will also keep up just fine, and the thing we have to remember is 90% of your driving in VN is not this beautiful dream of the open road and clear highway. It is rain, floods, mud, fear of theft, breakdown, bumping and dropping, hauling junk on your bike, gravel, dirt, hopping on the sidewalk, narrow parking spaces, what am I forgetting? Ah yes, not to forget the cops pulling over the rich looking guys, and the more expensive your deal looks, the more the thieves look your deal over. So I think you have to know what your goals are. The people who feel the moto is like a fashion statement will not want a Cub or a Win. A nice 67 gets some looks, but mostly from older guys. Fashionable girls may ride on your 67 or Win but may be reluctant to ride on a Cub. To me, this is a benefit. Long ago I learned that if a girl will not ride on your motorbike then it is a much better decision to change girls than it is to change motorbikes. One eliminates a large slice of the money grubbers that way and also identifies practical and reasonable people who may be an asset to your life. If you are into what works best, there is not much doubt that the Cub is the best moto ever made, but with all of them hauling garbage and whatnot, they have zero snob appeal here in VN. They are not particularly good for 2 larger westerners either, if that is an issue, the Win will be much better for you. A Cub can hold a larger westerner and a normal VN though (or 14 piglets). Either the Win or the 67 can be swapped over to an auto for a rather small cost, like 40 bucks or something. If I get a second 67 I will likely do that to one of them. I had a 67 with the auto once when I was a kid, it was a total kick ass bike. The auto is so much better in heavy traffic and in rough terrain it is great too. If you do have the manual, the cable will have to be changed every 6 months or so, occasionally adjusted, and you need to find someone who understands the manual clutch. Message me if you need that contact in HCMC, took me forever to find one who could do the 67 properly. The Win may not have that problem as it is a newer bike and they seem to have more experience with that clutch, I don't hear complaining about that from the Win guys, but it is the number 1 cause of failure on the 67 until you find the right mechanic. Nothing wrong with the technology, but the mechanics use the wrong internal springs and then it never works properly. It has been my experience with my bikes, if you are not taking them in every month it is because you don't mind running with lights not working, loose parts, improperly adjusted chain, etc. VN style is to take it in when it quits running, not when you notice the problem. A new bike of any kind should run 6 months or so without problem, especially the bikes that are not chain driven, they may vibrate less and give you a bit of time before things start getting loose. But then when they start having issues, it becomes a lot harder and more expensive to fix. So this new stuff will eventually not be worth fixing, but stuff using technology from the 60ís and early 70ís can run forever. Similar to the cars in the U.S., older cars can be kept up forever, if you can get parts for them. Newer stuff is too complex, too many electrical parts, too much plastic stuff, at some point it is not worth fixing.

As cheap as these mechanics are, to me, it is a joy to keep finding things to fix and improve. I have as much money in my 67 as a new generic Honda would cost, but it hauls total ass, has disk brakes, gear indicator, electric start, I forget what all, ungraded displacement, so it is like a new bike but with the original frame and metal parts (they are plastic nowadays) and so it is quite a machine. But, for the average guy who is not trying to impress anyone, the most solid machine is an older Cub with a 4 speed and the displacement upgraded. If you get one that was originally 90, you may be able to boost it to 110 or so just on the bore, you are not going to find anyone who knows how to stroke it around here I am afraid. Still, a boosted Cub will freaking fly, and will still do all the other stuff you need to get done too when the flash bike needs to stay in the dry storage.

My knock on the Win or the new stuff is pretty minor. When the experts agree that the Cub is the best bike ever made, and some say best vehicle, and maybe even the most important machine every made, I cannot argue and say any bike is better than the Cub. But other bikes are better for a nice highway setting (which we rarely see here), or impressing the girls (which is a much bigger factor for some of us) or for hauling 500 lbs worth of expat bodies, so your goals are important. I think a Win could be a better buy for a lot of guys for the size issue, (both the cc's and our lard asses), but the manual clutch better be tuned up nicely, and the driver better enjoy shifting, and if he is driving in stop and go traffic in HCMC, he still may not like it much. It may be a better buy than the 67 for the casual short time expat. A 67 is a true classic, but will cost more to bring into top condition, and is a bit smaller. It will be more of a museum piece someday, doubtful for the Win (or the Cub, too many of those, and they still make them). A juiced 67 has a very favorable power to weight ratio, and will really fly, but the new flash bikes with larger ccís will run fast too, if high speed is your game. I like the Win a lot at $200, as often as these guys have to dump them, that is a price point which can be found. If it tests out, I think it is quite a bargain. I probably would avoid the Chinese one just for an additional layer of safety, but I buy or donít buy based on how the machine feels in the test run, unless it is a total steal and I am prepared to fix whatever is wrong with it on my own dime. $200 is a great price, but if it does not test out, then I would not buy it for more than $100, let someone else find a decent mechanic and go thru all that aggravation of getting it fixed right. Our time is worth too much, and there are too many of these on the market with very motivated sellers. If it was 110 cc, tested fine and was not Chinese, and I needed one quick, I would pay up to $250, but only if I was sure about being ready to drive it with the manual, if the big majority of my driving was in slow, heavy traffic, I would probably go for a Cub or change it over to an auto.

See our recent discussion on bikes for more on chain driven Hondas in general. They are mostly the same technology, and except for all the plastic pieces that crack up or fly off in a wreck, they are almost as good as a Cub or a 67.
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robfir



Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, England

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great replies, thanks! Sorry I wasn't around yesterday - I'm cover-teaching at the moment and they phoned me in the morning with a full day's work.

I did manage to go bike shopping in Tan Phu last night though. I'm hating myself for hating the look of big scooters - they'd be so practical and comfortable if only I could stomach their lack of character! Anyway, now I can compare three Wins (I also now understand why people think they can tell the various types apart - these are more tributes than bootlegs; no-one's going to fool anyone who's seen both as to whether a Win's Honda or imitation!):

At $300 asking price is the "Indonesia 110", nice to ride and operate though the electrical controls are lower quality and badly worn out. Crucially for me the distance between seat and footpegs is less than on the Japanese Win, otherwise I'd be considering it seriously. (Also it sold yesterday).

Then there's a real Win 100 for $380 - this is nice to ride and operate also, ride comfort from the suspension may be better than the Indonesia, or that might just be because I'm sitting more comfortably (seat to footpeg distance is greater). Possibly the throttle and clutch controls are a bit slack, though with little experience with motorbikes I can't say. Anyway I can work it fine. It seems only to go from first to neutral if it's rolling along or the engine's off - any ideas anyone?

Then there's one for $530 in the back of a shop in Tan Phu (a genuine looking Win 100). This looks really nice. The only thing I didn't love was that the fuel lines and filter have been replaced; it could be good work but I'm not qualified to say, also this seems to have been at the loss of the fuel switch including the 'reserve' setting. On the other hand the electrics seem excellent, I was impressed by the strength of the lights and horn. Starts right off and sounds beautiful, but he requested that I only test-ride it if I'm really serious about buying (he would have had to more or less empty his shop of bikes to free this thing). As I feel feel fairly obliged to buy the $380 one after showing a lot of interest in it I didn't test-ride it, but I was keen. (I'm less interested in it now after Mark's input on prices - perhaps $530 is a huge amount for this! I wonder how much he could be bartered down.)
If anyone's interested in this shop (it had several other classics - I think they're things like Cubs and 67s) I've got the details.

Big thanks to Mark for all the input, I've been jealous of those riding Cubs, 67s and other old Hondas since I arrived here, but even the Win feels very cramped to me (I'm very tall).... Those other old Hondas look tiny!

I'll be sure to give the Win your advised health-check before paying up - it doesn't stop anything like my girlfriend's Mio with disk-brakes does, but that's to be expected I suppose?
I've mentioned that the clutch feels slightly slack - I have to pull it almost to the handle to change gear. Is this just needing a simple adjustment of cable tension like on a pedal bicycle's brakes? Or is it normal? "the manual clutch better be tuned up nicely".
And why is this VIN number so important? Judging by things I've seen the police ignore here I have trouble believing they'd squat down and scrape HCMC filth off my engine and chassy to check that out....

A Vietnamese man I know who owns a Win in HCMC thinks parts are hard to get here because there aren't many Wins in this city... But we're saying it's OK becuase the parts for other Hondas so often fit... I'll soon find out I suppose!

"rain, floods, mud, fear of theft, breakdown, bumping and dropping, hauling junk on your bike, gravel, dirt, hopping on the sidewalk, narrow parking spaces" I think a Win is pretty good for all of those except stowing things, it seems almost horizontal on the side-stand too so I'll probably use the more major stand often (what's that called anyone?).

My girlfriend's not too keen on a Win because she'll need a ladder to get on the back of it! But she's grudgingly agreed Wink
I wonder what she'd say if I wanted a Cub? I may pretend to have my heart set on one when she get's home tonight ;D

"My knock on the Win or the new stuff is pretty minor." I don't know what that means, sorry! Is "my knock' equivalent to "my knowledge"?

So it sounds to me like we think $380 is too much for even a Japanese Win? That may prolong my search!

Mark is there any chance I could come out to meet you and your bike? It sounds worth admiring! I always love a well refurbished classic vehicle so if you're free this weekend please PM me Smile
Also if you could help me find a treasured mechanic (what you said about good repairs done in advance sounds like exactly what I'm into!) I'd be much obliged Smile

What a huge post! I'll try to buy one soon so you can all rest your eyes Wink
Thanks so much for your extensive help with this everyone - buying a vehicle is always a nervous time for me!
I hope my little review of the different Wins and prices I've seen is useful to someone Smile
Rob.

P.S. I've noticed there's a lot of interest and knowledge regarding classic bikes on this forum. I've been keen to work on such vehicles myself for years but it's never even approached being convenient; for example in HCMC finding a suitable space, tools, parts and getting advice/knowledge (without being ripped off or overcharged, which I hate) just seems so daunting! But perhaps someone else is already doing so, or would consider joining forces in an attempt to? Do let me know! Smile
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 778

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rob,

What you are describing on the shifting on the $380 bike is the common issue with the clutch. Now, it may just need adjustment, but anyone selling a bike should already have taken care of something so easily adjusted that has such a big negative impact on drivability. So, then we get into the major discussion on clutches, which we have been into already. Bottom line: manual clutch is nice for the boonies, not so good for heavy stop and go, and damn sure needs to be adjusted properly if that is what you have. BUT, if it is not just adjustment, then you need to have it fixed PROPERLY, which with the 67 is very hard to find someone who knows what parts to use. With the Win, you may not have that problem. Personally, if I was buying one, either the clutch works perfectly or the bike is worth about $75 to $100 less to cover my messing around finding someone who will fix it properly. Any owner should have this right before selling, so it could mean he cannot figure out how to get it right, which could mean it has the wrong parts in there, thatís what it means on the 67ís. 95% of them cannot figure out how to do the clutch properly on the 67ís, but they may be better on the Wins. Note, nothing is wrong with the technology on the manual clutch, it is strictly an issue of the mechanics not knowing how to do this properly, and not being honest about telling you that they do not know. I suspect you will not have this same problem on the Win, or at least to the same extent. I think they try to put the Win clutch springs into the 67 clutch, and that is where they REALLY screw that one up.


$530 is high for a Win, especially with the alteration you mentioned. That implies someone removed a real part to keep it running, which means whoever owned it did not care about doing things properly, which means there may be other unresolved issues. If the guy wants to sell it, it should be more accessible. Fixing that fuel shutoff would cost just a few bucks, seems pretty questionable to ask top dollar for that bike the way he has it set up. You have to get a feel for these guys, and the bike. You start seeing warning signs, you discount the bike. One thing to look at is the air filter. I have seen these guys advertise a complete restoration and then leave a crumbling air filter (or no air filter) which could then be sucked into the engine. Very common for these guys to never put in a new one, or even neglect to have one, as a cursory exam does not look at this. This is what you are up against with these folks.

I would not feel obligated to ANYONE to buy a bike, the way these folks generally take advantage of each other, pretty rare for anyone to do any favors around here on the motorbike thing. Instead, my strategy would be to email (not call) the guys who have done this trip and have a reasonable price and ask if they would consider whatever your price point is. As I already have bikes, my price would be $200. I have only looked at one or two of these, and one guy said he would go $200, but someone else got it before I was able to get to it, I was a ways out of town at the time. Some of these guys just have to dump these bikes after their trips, depends on how much time they have to hang around. When doing this, be very polite, often people will sell if you act like you want to adopt rather than ravish. Some people get very fond of their machines, so psychology comes into it. I would also advertise on CL as a buyer, specifically for a Win, or whatever you are seeking.

If you really get hot for a Win (or a Cub or a 67), you can actually retrofit disk brakes on them. I doubt you could get them on the front of a Cub, but you can get front and back on the Win or the 67. Back is about $100, front is about $150 on the 67, should not be more on the Win, maybe less on it. You have to change the fork on the 67 to do it. Great mod, the locals REALLY know you are crazy when they see that. Drum brakes are okay too, but so many owners neglect them, just getting them serviced usually is all they need. Of course disk brakes are better, but they can be too good, you have to get used to them. I occasionally hit mine too hard and it gets squirrelly on me.

Yeah, the Cub and the 67 are both small, but when you mod the engine, the power to weight ratio is really great, and the silly thing can fly, literally. I can get mine airborne under the right circumstances, although not all the way into orbit (yet).

On the VIN, your bike can be taken away from you if the numbers do not match, it can imply theft or something. Yeah, as an expat, cops likely would not check that far, but as an enthusiast, I do not want to do all this work to MY freaking xe to lose it over something that stupid. It is not just you, someone else could be driving it, who knows what stupid thing could happen. Plus, the seller should know if the numbers match. Do you want him pulling this bs on you? If they do not match, the bike could be taken away from you, according to the VN guys who advise me on this. If you are going to buy a bike like that, know what you are getting, and do not pay up to get a compromised bike with non matching VINís, that bike should be discounted or rejected.

I think you are okay on parts, my mechanic says he can get them, and he is a good guy, but not like the most resourceful mechanic in town.

Being thorough and knowledgeable often motivates the seller to be more willing to drop his price. Donít be a jerk about it, but the more he realizes you are on to his scam, the less he feels he can take advantage of you.


On the mud and blood and flood, the Cub is the winner. The clutch is never going to be as good in the nastiest conditions, and especially the heavy stop and go traffic. I think the Win is going to be okay, but I would not recommend it for anyone doing mostly stop and go in heavy traffic in HCMC or HN. The heavier the traffic, the more I use my Cub, and especially if hauling someone on back with me. I think the Win is better for the HN to HCMC trip though.

Sounds like you have the wrong kick stand on that one. You can get a longer stand. Thing about these generic parts, they work, but sometimes you do not get exactly what the original plan was. On some things, it does not matter so much, in some cases, it does. Side stand kick stand. Center stand kick stand.

Knock means criticism.

I love these bikes too, but really, it is best for us to earn our wages and let these guys do the work. You just have to find one who will follow your directions, and understand you control the process. That takes some doing, but they are out there. It is silly for us to mess with them when they do it for a buck an hour, plus they have an air compressor and all the tools, and the contacts for buying things or subbing jobs out. It is just silly for us to mess with, as the cost of labor is so low, better for us to work and earn 15 or 20 times as much, plus we would do it a lot more slowly than them as well. That is why I am in love with taking them in and getting it done, it is peanuts to us, and the moto just keeps getting better and better.

I may be able to see you Sunday if you want, I will send you my phone number or email address.
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TRH



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 192
Location: HCMC

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:14 am    Post subject: Anglo/American vocabulary Reply with quote

mark_in_saigon wrote:
My knock on the Win or the new stuff is pretty minor.

robfir wrote:
"My knock on the Win or the new stuff is pretty minor." I don't know what that means, sorry! Is "my knock' equivalent to "my knowledge"?

mark_in_saigon wrote:
Knock means criticism.


In this truly interesting topic on Honda WIN's, have we stumbled on a tiny piece of ESL knowledge of Anglo/American differences? I for one did not know that a British man would not understand "knock" or at least figure it out from context. I did find this online dictionary but "knock" is not in it. Perhaps it should be.

http://www.uta.fi/FAST/US1/REF/usgbdiff.html#a2b

Would anyone care to guess on a census estimate of ESL teachers in Vietnam? I have the impression that the British dominate the curriculum but that Americans outnumber them by a fair margin. True? Not True?

BTW (on topic) there is a well restored, at least paint and chrome-wise, WIN that I often see parked at one of the little noodle places on my lane. I haven't stopped to take a good look. It is nice but certainly, as Mark has suggested, looks not very practical unless as a second bike.
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 168
Location: Hanoi

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to chip in. keep an eye on the new Hanoian website:

http://tnhvietnam.xemzi.com/listing/home?type=33/motorcycles

Win's and Cub's come up for sale from time to time. If you can find a bike worked on by Andrew at VIP bikes, it is worth having it shipped down. Andrew is one of the best guys in VN right now to work on your bike and know if is done right. Clearly its far away, but he might be able to point you in the right direction for a properly maintained bike..

Until Mark opens a shop Smile

http://tnhvietnam.xemzi.com/en/spot/2003/vip-bikes-social-enterprise-hanoi
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 778

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing that amazed me is how inexpensive it is to ship a bike from north to south. I had one sent for about 20 bucks. Cheapy cheapy. So, if you were truly convinced someone had the mojo on bikes, you could just have them sent back and/or forth.

I am not a real mechanic. I was hot for a particular type of older car in the states, the Datsun Z car. It is similar to the deal on old Honda motorbikes in a lot of ways. They made zillions of them, and all their models during a 10 year period had parts that swapped from one to another. They were very inexpensive, relatively simple, extremely solid, and ran forever. I learned that as an enthusiast, it was easy to know more about the odd things one could and should do to take care of these cars (and especially to upgrade them) than a normal mechanic would ever know. So it really pays to specialize. Another interesting thing I learned was that there was this magical time frame when vehicles were at their very best. It related more to utility and efficiency. It ended in 1973 in the states (I think is the exact year) when the emissions mandates came down. Not that the concept is bad, but the manufacturers had to scramble to rig up a bunch of stuff that was not in the original plan, so those vehicles starting going downhill. The Japanese vehicles were still good for a little longer, up til 1980 or so I think is the end of the classic Datsun era, though the last classic Z was 1978. 79 - 83 still had a good drive train, but the plastic and complexity meant they were not the same, we just use them as parts cars, pulling the engines and the 5 speed transmissions for swapping into our older Z cars. But the other thing is (or was) how luxury and creature comforts became more important to people and manufacturers, and also they made more money selling expensive cars than inexpensive cars, so they quit caring about putting out a solid product and starting selling bedrooms on wheels. I am not an expert on all this, but have been in enough wrecking yards to have seen the guts of these various generations, and it is just amazing to see how solid and simple cars used to be compared to what they have become. So the modern car is really a disposable product, there comes a time when it is not worth fixing, and all the complexity and the plastic and the circuit boards and whatever it has, at some point, no one can deal with that stuff, better to just get a new one. An old Honda motorbike, or Datsun, or any older car could basically run forever, as long as you can get parts for it.

Interesting to read about the Model T. They did not change the model name forever, like 20 years or something. They did not even want to advertise improvements. Ford had said it was the perfect car, so to brag about improvements implied that it had not been perfect before. So funny. In a way, there is some truth there. While we can always improve vehicles, like the disk brakes on the older Hondas for example, most of this bs they foist on us these days is to make the thing do more than just get us from point A to point B. In the states, people mostly want new cars for the sound systems and the airc con. I need a new car honey, the air con is not good in ours. Gawd. I guess so.........


If this Andrew is really good, if he does not tear your head off on price, a true enthusiast would do well to have him mod one completely and send it down to you. There are two guys (that I know of) down here that do this stuff for us, neither of them is totally dependable. VN (non English speakers) can do the work, but then you have these constant issues interfacing with them, and getting them to understand our goals, which run counter to the VN system of motorbike philosophy. Once you finally have one set up the way you want it, you do not have as much trouble keeping it going, and can just use a regular VN guy, or whoever you are close to when something starts to vibrate loose.

On the Wins, of course they are for sale all the time on Craigslist also. The New Hanoian probably doesn't list much for sale in the south. CL has all of VN lumped together at this time, which is okay. Again, you can advertise what you are seeking there. For VN speakers and a lower price, you can also use this site:

http://muaban.net/ho-chi-minh.html


http://muaban.net/ho-chi-minh/raovat/tim-kiem.html?q=honda%20win&cat=&min=&max=&all=0

The second link just included honda win in the search bar, you have to figure out where to input that, which is fairly easy, but at some point, you have to have a VN speaker do your phone calls or whatever.

I tend to use some colloquialisms and whatnot when talking motorbikes and cars. One of my favorite subjects, and has almost nothing to do with teaching (except getting your lard ass over to the job). It would be interesting to know the breakdown on foreigners, but really should move that to another discussion. Really, I would like to keep all the motorbike stuff on that old thread that had a ton of info on it, but I do not have the tools to move stuff around. Next time we do this, I will just dust that one off and try to get people respond to it. Newer guys would want to have a shot at reading all the stuff we already have over there. I would say, don't forget the Aussies, they used to dominate ESL in S E Asia, I think, because of proximity as well as their desire to carouse at a low cost. So when analyzing dialects we bring over, you have to throw them into the mix. They have some great slang :

yobbo - lower life form, still human, but barely

clobber - stuff, your important junk

mob - a particular group (probably yobbos)

bloody hell - everyone knows that one, but they say it so naturally (and frequently) that one understands it much better from an Aussie

abbo - aborigine (pejorative)

dolly bird (also Sheila) - girl

I forget what else, have to check with my buddy Phil, and he is a bit too high end of an Aussie to use their best (or worst) slang enough to rub off on me.
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robfir



Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, England

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone!

I often find myself on urbandictionary looking up Americanisms etc., it's a great help to me! But it doesn't have "knock" in this sense. I may be less clued up on American lingo than most Brits as I watch almost no TV and thus also miss out on a huge amount of advertising - I'm of the understanding that most people outside of the US pick up most new American terms and figures of speech in this way?

That's the first time someone's linked me to tnhvietnam, it seems to be a big Vietnamese directory? Local websites are quite handy to know; I've started using vietbando in preference to google maps as it seems better informed about HCMC's sprawling alleyways and intricate addresses.

What you said about the fuel line makes me wonder why I didn't think that myself! Indeed, replacing the fuel tap, hoses and filter with peculiar parts instead of identical or similar ones does smack of making things work rather than making them work well.
I'll be sure to keep an eye on the clutch and air filter of whatever Win I end up with then; having my engine broken by the air filter itself would be too absurd! I'll keep an eye on the VIN too, that would be horrible!

I think I've seen a thread on here regarding the process and documents involved in trying to own a bike here - I'll try to find it now...

Sunday would be perfect for me, and if you could introduce me to a good mechanic some time that would be fantastic Smile

Thanks again for all your advice and experiences Smile
Rob.
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TRH



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 192
Location: HCMC

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject: Registration Reply with quote

robfir wrote:
I think I've seen a thread on here regarding the process and documents involved in trying to own a bike here - I'll try to find it now...
You might find it a lot easier to just have your girlfriend register the bike in her name. It's a lot easier for her to deal with all the government offices and unless you are fluent in Vietnamese, she would surely have to go along with you if you wanted it in your own name. Just think how difficult it is to do a motor vehicle registration in your home country and multiply that by infinity. Also, I don't know what they are but I have read, I think on this Forum, that if you register it in your name there are unique numbers that spell out "foreigner" to the police; not that it is not obvious enough if you are as tall as you say. I would think that unless your relationship goes really sour that would be the way to go. If your relationship does sour you're probably out a lot more than the price of the bike anyway. Wink

Last edited by TRH on Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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robfir



Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, England

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't see Mark's most recent post somehow, even though it's listed as two hours previous to mine :/
The results on the mua and ban search range from 7 to 21 million - that's more than craigslist! I wonder what's special? Or maybe the leaving-Vietnam-very-soon prices really are just that good...
I'll ask my girlfriend to have a glance at those search results later (she's doing that post-lunch siesta thing that gives me an alcohol-free hangover).

Did many old Citroen cars make it over to the States? I'm told they've engineering that was revolutionary at the time... And was that the British Top Gear that toured Vietnam? If so you might have also seen them test the suspension on the CV2 - ingenious!

My main plan is indeed to have her own the motorbike, or if I buy her uncle's I might just leave it in his name, but if I do buy from a stranger I want to know the process of getting it under her or my name when I hand over the cash - no surprises! Smile
I'm reading some of the old motorbike-ownership threads now... sounds like a headache! I'll let you know how I get on...
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