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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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 Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Arguss wrote: |
| chinatimes wrote: |
| This will be my final comment on this. If you want to believe you need 2 years of experience, then get your 2 years out of China and then come. Your choice. I suggest coming to China and seeing for yourself. China is very good with getting your visa straightened out, and even though there are bad schools, don't paint them all with the same brush. They are not all the same. |
I was searching for this thread because I remembered reading about it.
I graduated this December and have been talking to recruiters online (yeah, it's not a great start, but I gotta have some connection to potential employers). They have given me a great amount of pushback on the 2 year experience thing. One of them has basically said she won't be able to find anything for me, and the others have come up blank so far.
Anyone got some advice for a recent graduate looking for a starter job without the 2 years experience? |
On the plus side at least the recruiters you dealt with appear to have been honest with you and didn't promise you the moon just to get you over here for a potentially bad job.
China's probably the biggest ESL market on earth. Just keep looking, you will find something that suits you. Have you looked at some job sites? Some have been inundated with recruiters but if you don't want to deal with them then filter those jobs out and consider the rest. |
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MisterButtkins
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1221
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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(1)Try applying directly to jobs, not using recruiters
(2)Try applying for jobs in second and third tier cities |
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Nkengaola
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Wanzhou, Chongqing
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Arguss wrote: |
| Anyone got some advice for a recent graduate looking for a starter job without the 2 years experience? |
Are you only looking in the larger cities? Try the smaller Tier 2 or Tier 3 cities - they are usually easier to get into without the experience.
Look in other provinces - some are stricter than others with the "requirements".
Talk to more recruiters.
Email schools directly.
Basically, keep trying. If you want it, you'll get it. Be smart about it, but it CAN be done. The EFL market here in China is huge - you'll find something. |
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MisterButtkins
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1221
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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You have to be able to find something. If I had a nickle for every teacher I'd met here who didn't meet all the SAFEA requirements, I'd have... at least two dollars.
Are you applying to a lot of places? Don't be one of those people who complains about "I can't find a job", and then I found out they only applied to like 1 or 2 places. For internet jobs, you need to be applying to dozens of different schools. |
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Arguss
Joined: 12 Nov 2012
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate all the replies. I suppose I just needed some encouragement.
For people reading this thread, what do you consider Tier 1/Tier 2/Tier 3 cities? Would you consider anything in Jiangsu, Zheijang, or Anhui to not be tier 1? I would prefer that area if possible, although that may be the cause of my problems,  . |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Arguss wrote: |
I appreciate all the replies. I suppose I just needed some encouragement.
For people reading this thread, what do you consider Tier 1/Tier 2/Tier 3 cities? Would you consider anything in Jiangsu, Zheijang, or Anhui to not be tier 1? I would prefer that area if possible, although that may be the cause of my problems, . |
Now that we have details, try this offer.
http://jobs.echinacities.com/jobs/jobchapter/1354364382
"Teaching experience: Preferred" but not required. Search more for other offers like this.
Personally, I not too crazy about this part, "Accommodation: No, but 1,500RMB/month will be provided after probation period as housing allowance"
But that's your choice and you can try searching others which give you a place. |
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twilothunder
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 442
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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There is actually no strict definition, but Tier 1 is generally seen as Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou/Shenzhen (some extend it to Tianjin and Chongqing).
However, there are nicer, more Westernised cities than Chongqing in Jiangsu and Zhejiang - they are both very wealthy provinces by Chinese standards.
I would much rather live in Nanjing, Suzhou, Hangzhou or even Wuxi than Chongqing. |
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doogsville
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 924
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:06 am Post subject: |
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I don't get why any employer in China would advertise a job without accommodation. It means you would have to find a hotel on arrival and stay there until you either found a suitable apartment with the help of your school, a new Chinese friend, or when you learned enough Chinese to do it yourself. Of course, if you've been here a while and your Chinese is good enough it's not a problem, but would someone like that take this job?
That's going to be an expensive start, and it speaks volumes about the employers attitude towards employees.
The only reason I can think of is that it saves the school money, since they aren't liable for the deposit and rent in advance etc. That in itself would be enough to warn me to stay away from them. |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| doogsville wrote: |
I don't get why any employer in China would advertise a job without accommodation. It means you would have to find a hotel on arrival and stay there until you either found a suitable apartment with the help of your school, a new Chinese friend, or when you learned enough Chinese to do it yourself. Of course, if you've been here a while and your Chinese is good enough it's not a problem, but would someone like that take this job?
That's going to be an expensive start, and it speaks volumes about the employers attitude towards employees.
The only reason I can think of is that it saves the school money, since they aren't liable for the deposit and rent in advance etc. That in itself would be enough to warn me to stay away from them. |
If you were to move out there, yes. If you already have a place, then you don't need 2 apartments. I signed up for the same deal. For 6 months, I got an apartment for 1,000 and the school gave me 1,500. I did it again and got a better apartment. The school changed locations and helped move my stuff which was a large part theirs, like refrigerator, couch, cooking appliances, etc...
The only thing that I would advise people to think about is the landlord. In my case, I didn't know about heating being added to it at the end when I went to move out. They also don't like it when you move out in winter because it is harder to get a new tenant. So, it might be best to get an apartment which goes into March at least.
The reason why I am not crazy about the part I quoted is not the apartment arrangement but being on probation without job security. Usually I give demos with good schools and if they don't like the demo, then that is the time to end things, not after you sign a contract. I have actually had better success ratios by doing demos first over signing a contract blindly, and then showing up to find out their expectations were nothing like I had planned.
Get a schedule of classes and talk to other teachers. In my case, I thought I would be the only teacher at one school, but when I got there I saw 5 other teachers who had been there for 2 years. They thought it was perfectly fine to just change the daily schedule at a moment's notice and shift classes around with large gaps of 3 hours in between individual classes. So, the point being, know what you are getting into before you move. |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| doogsville wrote: |
| I don't get why any employer in China would advertise a job without accommodation. |
Universities have accommodation already built in, so they can offer jobs with apartments. A lot of language mills are just one building outfits, so many of them offer a housing allowance in lieu of the apartment. They'll help you find a place too. I worked for one private outfit and the owner rented one huge 4 floor apartment for the four teachers working there. Each of us had our own room, and there were three bathrooms, shared kitchen and common area. I wasn't crazy about it but it was cheap. It's not hard to believe that a lot of schools can't afford to keep and maintain apartments in places like Shanghai or a lot of other cities for that matter. You check the price of real estate these days? |
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wonderingjoesmith
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:10 am Post subject: |
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I've checked. Renting a 100-130 sqm place COSTS and RESTRICTS for the agreement with landlords. Moreover, it limits the teacher to one area that may not offer a decent job later. Employers ought to either provide accomodation or three months rent plus basic furniture up front to the new teacher.
| chinatimes wrote: |
Usually I give demos with good schools and if they don't like the demo, then that is the time to end things, not after you sign a contract. I have actually had better success ratios by doing demos first over signing a contract blindly, and then showing up to find out their expectations were nothing like I had planned.
Get a schedule of classes and talk to other teachers. In my case, I thought I would be the only teacher at one school, but when I got there I saw 5 other teachers who had been there for 2 years. They thought it was perfectly fine to just change the daily schedule at a moment's notice and shift classes around with large gaps of 3 hours in between individual classes. So, the point being, know what you are getting into before you move. |
I'd be interested to know what local employers look for in FTs demonstration classes. The original poster has qualifications beyond most locals' aptitude and so I am wondering about the scope of such classes and who determines what/who is suitable for the position.
Schedules lay down our daily routine, and the quality of our work and/or lives. While it's understandable that some small sized private language centers need the option of split shifts, the reasons for short notices and split shifts are, to me, unclear in larger or public schools. I guess the willing old-timers may have been a part of the standard. If one rents a home and buys plenty of stuff into it, it's uneasy to move elsewhere. So, agreeing to employers' requests may sometimes be a better choice. |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| wonderingjoesmith wrote: |
| I've checked. Renting a 100-130 sqm place COSTS and RESTRICTS for the agreement with landlords. Moreover, it limits the teacher to one area that may not offer a decent job later. Employers ought to either provide accomodation or three months rent plus basic furniture up front to the new teacher. |
Nope. Private schools don't want to be saddled with accommodation, it's an extra business expense they don't need. They offer a housing allowance that covers most or all of the costs of local accommodation. They also won't ante up three months rent in advance for the same reason they don't pay salary or air tickets up front. People have a history of disappearing from the job. |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I'd be interested to know what local employers look for in FTs demonstration classes. The original poster has qualifications beyond most locals' aptitude and so I am wondering about the scope of such classes and who determines what/who is suitable for the position. |
They are more concerned about the students' reactions and if they want that teacher. It's not like a school observation. In mine they threw up a song after I did my demo lesson and I didn't sing. I don't want to be an edutainer. They didn't seem to mind. I'll do activities and games instead to make up for this. But at least they know I am not singing and dancing in class 
My comment wasn't for the original poster, another poster was asking about three specific locations. Just scroll up to get the details. I posted one offer which had an accommodation clause I wanted to highlight. |
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wonderingjoesmith
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
| wonderingjoesmith wrote: |
| I've checked. Renting a 100-130 sqm place COSTS and RESTRICTS for the agreement with landlords. Moreover, it limits the teacher to one area that may not offer a decent job later. Employers ought to either provide accomodation or three months rent plus basic furniture up front to the new teacher. |
Nope. Private schools don't want to be saddled with accommodation, it's an extra business expense they don't need. They offer a housing allowance that covers most or all of the costs of local accommodation. They also won't ante up three months rent in advance for the same reason they don't pay salary or air tickets up front. People have a history of disappearing from the job. |
If they truly need foreign teachers, they won't feel that way. If they hire someone by mistake, they'll still have the accomodation for their next incorrect choice of employee, won't they? The mentioning of travel expenses is muddling of the issue. Like i've said before, honest employers could easily divide that equally into the contracted months. |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| wonderingjoesmith wrote: |
| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
| wonderingjoesmith wrote: |
| I've checked. Renting a 100-130 sqm place COSTS and RESTRICTS for the agreement with landlords. Moreover, it limits the teacher to one area that may not offer a decent job later. Employers ought to either provide accomodation or three months rent plus basic furniture up front to the new teacher. |
Nope. Private schools don't want to be saddled with accommodation, it's an extra business expense they don't need. They offer a housing allowance that covers most or all of the costs of local accommodation. They also won't ante up three months rent in advance for the same reason they don't pay salary or air tickets up front. People have a history of disappearing from the job. |
If they truly need foreign teachers, they won't feel that way. |
If the school pays for the apartment and the teacher leaves one month or three months into the contract and isn't quickly replaced, or is never replaced then the school's stuck paying for an empty apartment. better for them to give the teacher a monthly housing allowance, let them find their own place, and if they split early then the teacher is on the hook for any losses. More incentive for the teacher stay at the job. |
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