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New teaching restrictions in China
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Arguss



Joined: 12 Nov 2012
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twilothunder wrote:
There is actually no strict definition, but Tier 1 is generally seen as Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou/Shenzhen (some extend it to Tianjin and Chongqing).

However, there are nicer, more Westernised cities than Chongqing in Jiangsu and Zhejiang - they are both very wealthy provinces by Chinese standards.

I would much rather live in Nanjing, Suzhou, Hangzhou or even Wuxi than Chongqing.


It's funny you mention those cities-- Nanjing, Suzhou, Hangzhou, Wuxi are all cities in which I've applied. It is precisely these cities where I am getting pushback about the 2 year work exp requirement. I've also applied in Nantong, Zhenjiang, Yangzhou, Ningbo, Zhangjiagang, Hefei...etc, same story so far.

chinatimes wrote:
Arguss wrote:
I appreciate all the replies. I suppose I just needed some encouragement.

For people reading this thread, what do you consider Tier 1/Tier 2/Tier 3 cities? Would you consider anything in Jiangsu, Zheijang, or Anhui to not be tier 1? I would prefer that area if possible, although that may be the cause of my problems, Neutral.


Now that we have details, try this offer.

http://jobs.echinacities.com/jobs/jobchapter/1354364382

"Teaching experience: Preferred" but not required. Search more for other offers like this.

Personally, I not too crazy about this part, "Accommodation: No, but 1,500RMB/month will be provided after probation period as housing allowance"

But that's your choice and you can try searching others which give you a place.


Before I started applying, I set two important goals for myself: not to work a 40 hour week, and to have accommodation provided so I didn't have to worry about it. I've applied for many similar jobs in the area, but that particular job ad goes against some of the specific goals I want in my application process. Is it wrong to have set standards and not accept just any job?
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is it wrong to have set standards and not accept just any job?


Well, set standards and take jobs that correspond to your situation. Use common sense. Move towards your standards, don't start from them. If you get offers that match your standards, then raise your standards.

If you have 2 years experience, teaching training of some sort to show the school, and have a college degree in something that would make you stand out more than just being a graduate, then off course look for the good offers that have housing.

If you don't, then you have to realize you are at a lower rung than other teachers. I blindly took an offer, got nailed for it, left after 3 weeks, and then I got another school which was more reasonable. I was in a better location and because I was near the school with the first one (the bad one), I was able to visit the second school first.

So, even if you want all the bells and whistles, use a lower rated school as a stepping stone. Make each move better than the last. You don't have to be the "robotic 1 year must have everything in the package robot" edutainer.

Again, use common sense, at the end of the day if you aren't getting job offers, especially in China, then you are definitely reaching too high relative to where you are now.
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 817
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Javelin of Radiance wrote:
wonderingjoesmith wrote:
Javelin of Radiance wrote:
wonderingjoesmith wrote:
I've checked. Renting a 100-130 sqm place COSTS and RESTRICTS for the agreement with landlords. Moreover, it limits the teacher to one area that may not offer a decent job later. Employers ought to either provide accomodation or three months rent plus basic furniture up front to the new teacher.

Nope. Private schools don't want to be saddled with accommodation, it's an extra business expense they don't need. They offer a housing allowance that covers most or all of the costs of local accommodation. They also won't ante up three months rent in advance for the same reason they don't pay salary or air tickets up front. People have a history of disappearing from the job.
If they truly need foreign teachers, they won't feel that way.

If the school pays for the apartment and the teacher leaves one month or three months into the contract and isn't quickly replaced, or is never replaced then the school's stuck paying for an empty apartment. better for them to give the teacher a monthly housing allowance, let them find their own place, and if they split early then the teacher is on the hook for any losses. More incentive for the teacher stay at the job.
Of course it's "better for them" not for the teacher. I guess, reasonable employers do not get "stuck" paying for empty apartments, because they offer reasonable terms and conditions to reasonable teachers.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3259
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't understand why this is a problem.

if'n you don't like the job that ain't got housing, don't take it.

if'n you do like the job, don't take it if'n it ain't got a reasonable housing allowance.

then if'n you still take the job, don't come to china without a sufficient
wad o'cash to cover your first three months (plus emergency flight home).

seem reasonable?
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twilothunder



Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 442

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arguss wrote:


It's funny you mention those cities-- Nanjing, Suzhou, Hangzhou, Wuxi are all cities in which I've applied. It is precisely these cities where I am getting pushback about the 2 year work exp requirement. I've also applied in Nantong, Zhenjiang, Yangzhou, Ningbo, Zhangjiagang, Hefei...etc, same story so far.


After the big 4 cities, Jiangsu and Zhejiang are arguably the most sought-after provinces to work in, for both newbies and experienced teachers. They can afford to be picky.

Hefei is a surprise though.
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 817
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As reasonable as US $ 1,000 for the flight, 6,000 RMB for three months rent, and a few thousand quai to make your home livable. Of course it's not a problem if one agrees. Madoff got so many less obtuse and wealthier individuals to agree. No problem buck! We're just writing, not investing.
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doogsville



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 572
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would never advise a newbie coming over for the first time to take a job that offered a housing allowance but not the actual housing. How is such a person supposed to find and secure suitable accommodation upon arrival? My first two jobs both provided accommodation, and I know they kept at least two or three apartments which were unoccupied for at least two months between teachers moving in to them. I guess its better for the business to swallow a couple of months rent than to have to go through the process of cancelling a lease and then having to find a new place and pay the security deposit and rent in advance each and every time.

The expense of staying in a hotel until you find a suitable place would have been prohibitive to me, and I would have needed the schools help to find a place anyway. I only found my current accommodation because my wife is Chinese and dealt with all the finding, securing and paperwork involved.

Are we seriously advising newcomers to get off the plane, stay in a hotel, which they would probably need the school to find and book for them, and then go through the whole process of finding and securing an apartment for themselves?
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GreatApe



Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 411
Location: South of Heaven and East of Nowhere

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+ 1 ... to doogsville's above post.

My advice for newbies (particularly ones who have never visited any part of Asia before), would be to make it easy on themselves and take a job with housing. Of course, it depends on the job and the location, but it makes adjusting to life in China SO MUCH easier and convenient.

There will be a big adjustment period anyway ... we all know that. I've had three different jobs in three years in China (in two provinces) and all have had housing attached as part of the contract. It's made it much easier for me to travel, to adjust to location and to the indvidual school. All of this means it's been easier to focus on the job of teaching.

The exception to this might be if you have a job opportunity that you know will assist you in finding housing. The dependability (or lack thereof) of those offering the job and "assisting" you on your re-location often makes all the difference in the world.

--GA
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1515

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or take a job that has a HR department that helps you locate housing.
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rogerwilco



Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1159

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoBillyNO wrote:
Or take a job that has a HR department that helps you locate housing.


It is nice when the school has an HR department that will actually help you.
Also, locating your own housing also involves deposits, utilities, furniture, appliances, etc. Many more possible hassles.

Having school provided housing can make the adjustment to China so much easier.
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1515

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Having school provided housing can make the adjustment to China so much easier.


it was my experience that the schools have rules that private housing doesn't and that is why I would disagree with this last statement. In my opinion living on campus would make the adjustment harder.
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MESL



Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For anyone who has a degree and no experience, Yangshuo is an excellent option. There are a zillion language schools in Yangshuo and the classroom atmosphere is more relaxed. The pay is much lower than other cities, but you can adjust easier. For someone who has some qualifications but has some visa issues, Buckland has several visa options. But the OP has a TESOL degree and a TESOL certificate, so their options are not so limited.
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doogsville



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 572
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoBillyNO wrote:
Quote:
Having school provided housing can make the adjustment to China so much easier.


it was my experience that the schools have rules that private housing doesn't and that is why I would disagree with this last statement. In my opinion living on campus would make the adjustment harder.


Depends on the type of school and the type of housing though. Universities that provide on campus housing may well have restrictive rules, but I've worked for two language mills who both provided apartments in the local area they rented from private landlords for the purpose of housing their teachers. There were no rules, and none of the hassles of dealing with the landlords directly. We could come and go as we pleased, and in the event of any problems we just phoned the school who either sent someone out to fix it or contacted the landlord who sent someone out to fix it.

In my last job, as long as you were prepared to share with one other teacher, you paid no rent for your housing. The school took the 800 a month housing allowance from both teachers and paid anything above that too. In other words if they put you in an apartment they were paying 2000 a month for, they used both 800 a month allowances, but also paid the 400 extra. All we paid for were utilities and Internet, which was rarely more than a few hundred a month.
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rogerwilco



Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1159

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoBillyNO wrote:
Quote:
Having school provided housing can make the adjustment to China so much easier.


it was my experience that the schools have rules that private housing doesn't and that is why I would disagree with this last statement. In my opinion living on campus would make the adjustment harder.


I have worked at both middle schools and universities in China, and none of them have had any rules regarding the apartments that were provided.
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weigookin74



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 102

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rogerwilco wrote:
NoBillyNO wrote:
Or take a job that has a HR department that helps you locate housing.


It is nice when the school has an HR department that will actually help you.
Also, locating your own housing also involves deposits, utilities, furniture, appliances, etc. Many more possible hassles.

Having school provided housing can make the adjustment to China so much easier.


Saw some decent housing advertised for the 4000 to 6000 RMB range online for Beijing and Shanghai markets. Think some of the bigger language mills there give 4 or 5 K RMB for an allowance or just offer a higher salary anyways. But, what is needed to get your own place? Deposits, setting up internet, electricity, all that stuff? Also, what do people do about water? I assume it's not drinkable? Can you shower or brush your teeth with it?

Housing one could get looked nicer in pictures than I ever had in SK.

http://www.estatesalliance.com/en/china/search?start=10&f=14-for-rent&city=387-beijing&area=&type=1-apartment-condominium&rooms=&price=5000&curr=4&qtext=

I'd love to hear feedback from China vets.
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