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All you need is a piece of paper that says TESOL on it

 
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 368

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:01 am    Post subject: All you need is a piece of paper that says TESOL on it Reply with quote

This was posted on the job board recently:

Quote:

Positions available year-round in Ha Noi, Vinh, Da Lat, Phu Yen, Da
Nang, Hue, Vung Tau, Can Tho, Quang Nam, Tuy Hoa, Hai Phong and Binh Duong

Positions: American Academy is looking for experienced, dynamic ESL teachers to
work at various our AMA campuses across Vietnam. For our main campus in Ho Chi
Minh, we have year-round part-time positions open for teaching young learners on
Saturday and Sunday morning. The ideal teacher is energetic, enthusiastic, and
enjoys working with children and teens.
Compensation: Teachers are paid at an hourly rate of $14 - $17 USD NET, based
on qualifications and experience.
Requirements: TESOL/CELTA/TEFL is required. Online TEFL is accepted.
Teachers with a 4-year degree strongly preferred. Must be a native English speaker
or near-native fluency.

For more information or to apply for a teaching position, please visit our website at
http://ama.edu.vn/en/component/content/article/87.html


So to work in Vietnam all you need is a piece a paper that says TESOL somewhere on it.

Degree needed? nope
Native speaker? nope
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 758

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there are folks working with NO TESOL of any sort, and some with no degrees, and some who are not native speakers. I guess if you surveyed the entire country, you would find a few that ticked all those boxes (boxes saying DO NOT HAVE). However, we should state that the less qualified you are, the worse your employment situation is likely to be in terms of pay, number of hours, level of work, quality of employer, and maybe a few other things.

I have some mixed emotions on all this. As native speakers, some of us have highly advanced skills despite not having some of the paper qualifications, and I think recognition of that would be a modern outlook. I have met guys who have degrees in communications or English lit or some such who clearly were not well qualified to do the work, despite having the supposed legal qualifications. I always remember Bill Safire who wrote the column "On English" for the New York Times, (and was a former speechwriter for President Nixon), had not graduated from college.

Still, we often find the VN hiring manager who cannot honestly assess our skills in a serious way, so qualifications or no, getting hired (or not) may not really be based on your skills anyway.

I do think that any of us who have some serious skill with the IELTS process are going to be able to find work, and the paper qualifications are not going to be as important as the real skill. I see lots of native speakers who sound fine in front of a group, who show up sober and look presentable, but not many of them are up to speed on the minutiae of IELTS, which seems to be more and more in demand. To do it properly sure takes a lot more of ones free time though, so you may be better off doing lower levels if you can get enough hours.
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kurtz



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 393
Location: off the radar

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke, why are you so surprised?

To work at Neverlearn :

Degree needed? Nope
Native speaker? Nope
Pulse needed? Preferred but not necessary
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 368

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark: I think my point in posting it is that it's basically saying that they will hire anyone who walks in off the street. It would be pretty easy to put together a certificate that says TESOL on it, and pass it off to a school like this. If they're not requiring a degree or native speaker, I doubt they are going to ask you to notarize/authenticate it.

The people who are up to date on their IELTS and other test teaching aren't going to be the clueless people walking in off the streets. They're probably the ones who have been teaching it for awhile and know what's up.

Kurtz: I guess I was just surprised at how blatant it was in the advertisement. Usually the places that advertise online at least try to have some credibility.
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 758

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I think it is a balance. Appearance can be worth a lot, I know of a CL location that had a beautiful young man working, an Italian, funny thing, the public schools he worked in thought he was Brit, they noticed he had more of an accent than the average teacher, but they did not even know he was not a native speaker of English. He sure was tall and handsome and young, and that can be worth more than a certificate in a lot of these places. I also suspect his European look made him worth more than say a Filipino, despite the Filipino being at least nominally a native speaker of English, or a VK who may be a real native speaker. So it really is the overall picture, I think, except for the very few places that have professional standards, and even they have to respect the prejudices of their customers.
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Mushroom Druid



Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurtz wrote:
Luke, why are you so surprised?

To work at Neverlearn :

Degree needed? Nope
Native speaker? Nope
Pulse needed? Preferred but not necessary


True.

Cleverlearn is Neverlearn.

Hanoi Neverlearn is a carousal. Travelers and foreigners with thick non-native accents are encouraged to apply. They only stick around for a couple of months. Constant turnover.

Be warned that the accounting at Hanoi Neverlearn will take out 20% tax on your pay even if you have been teaching in VN for over 6 months and already have a P.I.T. number.

American Academy in the OP pays very low as does Neverlearn/Cleverlearn.

They are both still owned by the same scammers correct?

Avoid both schools in Hanoi and the branches in Saigon are even worse than Hanoi.
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VietCanada



Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 262

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is from an article about HCMC hiring Filipino teachers to teach English in primary schools.

Quote:
The principal of another primary school in HCMC said she has hired foreign English teachers based on her own criteria.

“They must have blond hair, white skin and blue eyes. They must respect Vietnamese teachers and students as well,” she said.


The article is titled "HCMC criticized for hiring Filipinos to teach English",
Last Updated: Friday, November 09, 2012 05:00:00.

http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/pages/20121109-hcmc-criticized-for-hiring-filipinos-to-teach-english.aspx
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 533
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

“They must have blond hair, white skin and blue eyes. They must respect Vietnamese teachers and students as well.”

Rolling Eyes

I don't know if I'm alone on this, but I think the Filipino teachers get a raw deal here Mad. I've been to the Philippines several times and, for many of them, English is their first language. Geez, to my untrained ear, they even seem to speak with an American twang. Also I've taught with several Filipinos when I was at ACET and they were all lovely people who took their jobs very seriously.
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 758

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would somewhat agree, but on the other hand, I would say so many of the Asian teachers get a raw deal, and the VN get a worse deal than the Filipinos, in my opinion.

Everything is relative of course. Compared to the Europeans who are not native speakers of English, I think they are often more capable. Compared to some of the low level kids we get who are native speakers, I think a lot of Filipinos make up in seriousness for what they lack in English skills. Compared to that group, maybe their accent is not quite as good, but their grammar and teaching skills may be better.

The thing I always notice about Filipinos that I have to question is their general knowledge of business, their belief in Asian processes as being normal (which of course they are over here), and their ethereal world view.
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