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Regret not getting PGCE/K-12 sooner?
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Baggio



Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Regret not getting PGCE/K-12 sooner? Reply with quote

Been doing a lot of research lately concerning jobs that A) have good stability. B)skills that can be transferred the world over and C) ensure a good salary.

What I've found is that being a certified teacher is by far the best option. The ESL/TEFL business simply doesn't hold the same value as having a PGCE or K-12 license.

I'm currently in a position where I'm considering doing a PGCE to give myself the best opportunities to attain A, B and C.

Do any of the more experienced posters here wish they had gone back and completed a PGCE sooner, or went back and did it at all?

Thanks for the replies folks!
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suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 697

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Regret not getting PGCE/K-12 sooner? Reply with quote

Baggio wrote:
Been doing a lot of research lately concerning jobs that A) have good stability. B)skills that can be transferred the world over and C) ensure a good salary.

What I've found is that being a certified teacher is by far the best option. The ESL/TEFL business simply doesn't hold the same value as having a PGCE or K-12 license.

I'm currently in a position where I'm considering doing a PGCE to give myself the best opportunities to attain A, B and C.

Do any of the more experienced posters here wish they had gone back and completed a PGCE sooner, or went back and did it at all?

Thanks for the replies folks!


Been there. Got licensed. Never looked back.

Depending on where you go the salaries are 2-5 times better than someone doing EFL.

The benefit packages, in addition to the salaries, are usually pretty decent too and usually include airfare, housing, decent medical insurance, tuition for your kids (should you decide to have some), etc.

Why wait. Unless you are approaching 60 (retirement age - no work visa possible in many countries) there is no excuse not to.

.
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kazpat



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 125
Location: Kazakhstan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was 8-12 certified social studies / history teacher for the first 10 years of my teaching career. Made the move to ESL internationally and was able to get jobs based on my MEd. and CELTA / DELTA. I've been working in an admin slot for the past few years so procrastinated on the ESL license. After 7 years in ESL got my license recently and glad I did.

Might have to make a job move next year and want to return to the classroom full time. As I look at the market licensed positions are far more attractive than unlicensed. So I am glad I got it done. (I don't have MATESOL, maybe for those folks its a different ball game.) Having said that, as a supervisor of teachers I have seen firsthand that guys with a BA + CELTA can run circles around English Lit. / licensed English teachers when it comes to dealing with ELLs in an international setting. However, the job market is far kinder to those with a license, QTS, teaching diploma etc.

If your budget, situation, and time allows for it, get licensed.
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Baggio



Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses folks,

I have an MA in TESOL, and kind of tired of the instability of the EFL/TEFL business. I want to go in the opposite direction of you kazpat, but I figured if I got the PGCE I'd be covered for every scenario and could go back into ESL if I really wanted to.

Have either of you got any experience of the International school circuit? If not, any thoughts on it in general?
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kazpat



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 125
Location: Kazakhstan

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience is in quasi international schools, meaning schools serving host country nationals as opposed to expats but that employ licensed teachers.

Last edited by kazpat on Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:30 am; edited 2 times in total
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 14743
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience teaching adolescents in the school system in Scotland is what drove me into EFL, where I spent most of my teaching life.

Only the insane or desperate would contemplate teaching in secondary school ! Next time you get the chance look at the age profile of teachers doing that. they are all YOUNG ! What happens to them when they pass the age of 30 ?
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jpvanderwerf2001



Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1103
Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never got my K-12. Regret is probably a strong word, but if I were to do it over again, I would have gotten licensed before heading overseas to teach. As you already noted, the best teaching jobs out there are at international schools, and nearly all of them require K-12 licensure. There is no way I would have stayed in US public schools long, but if I knew then what I know now, I would have definitely gotten that experience then moved abroad.
Luckily for me, I had the opportunity to move into management of a school while still abroad, and that experience has helped me transition into higher ed administration back in the States. However, I often wonder if I had gotten my license and gone the international school route if I'd have ever returned.
In short, if I were you, I'd get that PGCE and go into the international school game. With your MA, you'll probably be able to get into administration, if you so desire, one day, as well.
International school gigs are the golden tickets of overseas language education, IMO. My two cents.
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currentaffairs



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 655

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Important points that people are missing here concerning being a school teacher is that you need to be good with kids, you need to satisfy the overbearing parents, and you have to deal with frequently finickity heads. Your time is squeezed during the term (especially at the more prestigious schools) with parents' evenings, extracurricular activities and marking. If this is all okay then go for it!
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danmbob



Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Posts: 56
Location: US&A

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So may we infer that most of these posters don't have MA Tesols? Higher Ed ESL/EFL is a good gig with that degree
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kazpat



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 125
Location: Kazakhstan

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
My experience teaching adolescents in the school system in Scotland is what drove me into EFL, where I spent most of my teaching life.

Only the insane or desperate would contemplate teaching in secondary school ! Next time you get the chance look at the age profile of teachers doing that. they are all YOUNG ! What happens to them when they pass the age of 30 ?


If you are talking about teaching back home (for me the USA) then I agree with you. However, my job in secondary overseas is quite literally a dream. If our mandate wasn't to train up the locals and have internationals leave I would stay forever at my current school. Most teachers I work with never want to go back to the USA, UK, Canada etc.
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simon44



Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Only the insane or desperate would contemplate teaching in secondary school


Scot, I used to teach teens in Thailand. The kids were nice enough, but the Thai educational system is what was sending me crazy!

I've taught middle school teens in Myanmar and that was a dream class.

Now I'm teaching KG and lower primary at a quasi-international school (so some non-local students) in Myanmar, at the grand old age of 57 years Smile

Do I feel like I'm too old for this job? Not at all. Teaching the youngest of students has made me understand how vitally important it is to get them off to a good start with their phonics, first reading and forming words etc. The kids love me and it allows me to get closer to the young female teachers (that last comment is a joke - I think!!)
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Baggio



Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting perspectives from everyone.

The PGCE would cover all basis in case the time comes for an eventual return to the UK to take care of sick family members, something a MA TESOL can't really do (or at the most limits options).

An rough plan would be to return to the UK, do the PGCE, stay for a couple of years to gain experience that international schools crave, go and earn bigger (well compared to the UK) bucks in the east before returning and aiming for a good international school in Europe (with a personal preference for Italy).

Does this sound like a decent, and realistic, plan to the more experienced members here?
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1251
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
My experience teaching adolescents in the school system in Scotland is what drove me into EFL, where I spent most of my teaching life.

Only the insane or desperate would contemplate teaching in secondary school ! Next time you get the chance look at the age profile of teachers doing that. they are all YOUNG ! What happens to them when they pass the age of 30 ?


This was my experience too (primary ages, 5-10). I never got the K-12 certification (our PGCE equivalent) as I worked specifically as a liason/in-class support worker for English language learners. I am so glad I did not waste that money and I am putting it towards the MA TESOL instead. Bad, bad attitudes from parents who treated school staff like free babysitters (although some parents were amazing). Wonderful children with a myriad of special education issues thrown into the mix and not enough help for them. Physically exhausted at the end of every evening.

I'm back at college-level now and forever grateful. Besides, the money is better anyways. Yes, jobs are harder to find, but there's a reason.
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RedLightning



Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 77
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
My experience teaching adolescents in the school system in Scotland is what drove me into EFL, where I spent most of my teaching life.

Only the insane or desperate would contemplate teaching in secondary school ! Next time you get the chance look at the age profile of teachers doing that. they are all YOUNG ! What happens to them when they pass the age of 30 ?


Too true, Master Scot
santi84 wrote:

I'm back at college-level now and forever grateful. Besides, the money is better anyways. Yes, jobs are harder to find, but there's a reason.

I agree entirely- my teaching license is now strictly a backup.
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suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 697

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danmbob wrote:
So may we infer that most of these posters don't have MA Tesols? Higher Ed ESL/EFL is a good gig with that degree


MA TESOL and an M.Ed. (among other qualifications that also include a teacher's license and a PhD). Other posters here are known personally and they also have related graduate qualifications so, no, you may not infer.

Most decent international schools have a better remuneration package than any EFL post, including those found in higher ed, unless you manage to get a tenured position somewhere (and that isn't going to happen with just an MA).

Home country licensure PLUS two 2 years of home country experience and then hit the international school circuit.

You won't start at the top of the pile but the climb is not that steep and you reach the better end of the jobs really quickly and with less crap than someone working there way through graduate school hoping to get a plum job somewhere, eventually. There is always an option with a related MA or M.Ed to move into administration as well.

.
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