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Is Japan changing and becoming open to more foreigners?
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matador



Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 281

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:56 am    Post subject: Is Japan changing and becoming open to more foreigners? Reply with quote

Q. Are there many non-Japanese (such as Chinese) working in convenience stores like 7/11 in Tokyo? Is it very rare or normal? Thanks.
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Pitarou



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:35 am    Post subject: Re: Is Japan changing and becoming open to more foreigners? Reply with quote

matador wrote:
Q. Are there many non-Japanese (such as Chinese) working in convenience stores like 7/11 in Tokyo? Is it very rare or normal? Thanks.
What the hell has Chinese workers on the graveyard shift got to do with Japan changing and opening up to foreigners?
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hagiwaramai



Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently there's a guy called Lawson working at one Tokyo Lawsons. Big news!
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matador



Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 281

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just pondering whether anyone had noticed a trend over the past 3 or so years of more non-Japanese in the workforce particularly in the retail sector.
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Apsara



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see non-Japanese (Koreans, Chinese, Indians mostly) working at convenience stores, chain coffee shops like Doutor and fast food places (McDonald's in particular) a lot these days in Tokyo. I've seen Americans working at Starbucks too.

Yes, I'd say it's a trend of the last 4-5 years or so. Whether it means Japan is opening up a lot to foreigners I'm not sure!
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jmatt



Joined: 29 Apr 2012
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apsara wrote:
I see non-Japanese (Koreans, Chinese, Indians mostly) working at convenience stores, chain coffee shops like Doutor and fast food places (McDonald's in particular) a lot these days in Tokyo. I've seen Americans working at Starbucks too.

Yes, I'd say it's a trend of the last 4-5 years or so. Whether it means Japan is opening up a lot to foreigners I'm not sure!


Considering that most convenience store transactions only involve a limited number of set phrases (not to say that non-Japanese workers can't speak the language) and very little, if any, chit-chat with customers (at least in Tokyo), makes sense that foreign workers would be in those jobs.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmatt,
I'd have to disagree. There are plenty of things that could be confusing for a clerk to learn. It's not just, "Here's your change. Thank you".

They deal with vendors and questions about paying bills through the mail. They would have to READ a lot, too, especially those forms for paying bills.

Re: Chinese
Be aware that many might not be immigrants. They might have been born here like the zainichi Koreans.
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jmatt



Joined: 29 Apr 2012
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
jmatt,
I'd have to disagree. There are plenty of things that could be confusing for a clerk to learn. It's not just, "Here's your change. Thank you".

They deal with vendors and questions about paying bills through the mail. They would have to READ a lot, too, especially those forms for paying bills.

Re: Chinese
Be aware that many might not be immigrants. They might have been born here like the zainichi Koreans.


You're right, and that's what I was getting at----though, would the average foreigner be able to tell if the clerk wasn't native born Japanese, but Chinese or Korean raised in Japan?

Along those lines, just sort of compared it to the convenience stores near my house here---lots of social back and forth I'd never experienced in stores in Japan, where things were more formalized.
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmatt wrote:
Glenski wrote:
jmatt,
I'd have to disagree. There are plenty of things that could be confusing for a clerk to learn. It's not just, "Here's your change. Thank you".

They deal with vendors and questions about paying bills through the mail. They would have to READ a lot, too, especially those forms for paying bills.

Re: Chinese
Be aware that many might not be immigrants. They might have been born here like the zainichi Koreans.


You're right, and that's what I was getting at----though, would the average foreigner be able to tell if the clerk wasn't native born Japanese, but Chinese or Korean raised in Japan?

Along those lines, just sort of compared it to the convenience stores near my house here---lots of social back and forth I'd never experienced in stores in Japan, where things were more formalized.


If someone were raised in Japan, how would a Japanese-born Japanese person know they were Chinese or Korean, but raised in Japan either? That would be like walking into a store in Canada and being able to tell that the caucasian guy behind the counter was born in Poland or wherever but had grown up in Canada (and therefore had a Canadian accent when he was speaking etc). Or even that the guy's parents had immigrated, but he, himself, had been born and raised in Canada and may or may not even speak Polish, and yet someone would just somehow know.

(and I'm not sure it would be easy to get a visa to work at 7/11. It's not like they need to import people to do that job. That means that the number of people who actually immigrated to Japan [as opposed to they, themselves being born here], who are working at a retail job is likely very low- probably mostly people on spousal visas or permanent residents).
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmatt wrote:
Glenski wrote:
jmatt,
I'd have to disagree. There are plenty of things that could be confusing for a clerk to learn. It's not just, "Here's your change. Thank you".

They deal with vendors and questions about paying bills through the mail. They would have to READ a lot, too, especially those forms for paying bills.

Re: Chinese
Be aware that many might not be immigrants. They might have been born here like the zainichi Koreans.


You're right, and that's what I was getting at----though, would the average foreigner be able to tell if the clerk wasn't native born Japanese, but Chinese or Korean raised in Japan?
Along those lines, just sort of compared it to the convenience stores near my house here---lots of social back and forth I'd never experienced in stores in Japan, where things were more formalized.


I'M an average foreigner and I know when a Chinese person hasn't been born in Japan by the accent. Cool Wink
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hagiwaramai



Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
jmatt,
I'd have to disagree. There are plenty of things that could be confusing for a clerk to learn. It's not just, "Here's your change. Thank you".

They deal with vendors and questions about paying bills through the mail. They would have to READ a lot, too, especially those forms for paying bills.


Ha. Potentially true but they would only have to react like the average Japanese clerk to a question ("doing something different, asking a question??!! Huh?? I'll get the supervisor") and they'd be fine.

I have noticed more foreigners in convenience stores recently though, mainly Chinese and South American Japanese, compared to 10/15 years ago.
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hagiwaramai wrote:
Glenski wrote:
jmatt,
I'd have to disagree. There are plenty of things that could be confusing for a clerk to learn. It's not just, "Here's your change. Thank you".

They deal with vendors and questions about paying bills through the mail. They would have to READ a lot, too, especially those forms for paying bills.


Ha. Potentially true but they would only have to react like the average Japanese clerk to a question ("doing something different, asking a question??!! Huh?? I'll get the supervisor") and they'd be fine.

I have noticed more foreigners in convenience stores recently though, mainly Chinese and South American Japanese, compared to 10/15 years ago.


It's good for diversity. But will it trouble the wa? Shocked
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hagiwaramai



Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Teacher wrote:
hagiwaramai wrote:
Glenski wrote:
jmatt,
I'd have to disagree. There are plenty of things that could be confusing for a clerk to learn. It's not just, "Here's your change. Thank you".

They deal with vendors and questions about paying bills through the mail. They would have to READ a lot, too, especially those forms for paying bills.


Ha. Potentially true but they would only have to react like the average Japanese clerk to a question ("doing something different, asking a question??!! Huh?? I'll get the supervisor") and they'd be fine.

I have noticed more foreigners in convenience stores recently though, mainly Chinese and South American Japanese, compared to 10/15 years ago.


It's good for diversity. But will it trouble the wa? Shocked

Oh, undoubtedly. Which should be a good thing.
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steki47



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hagiwaramai wrote:
I have noticed more foreigners in convenience stores recently though, mainly Chinese and South American Japanese, compared to 10/15 years ago.


Wow! Moving around the world to work at 7-11. That sounds really depressing. Is it better than the factory work they usually get?
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OneJoelFifty



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GambateBingBangBOOM wrote:
jmatt wrote:
Glenski wrote:
jmatt,
I'd have to disagree. There are plenty of things that could be confusing for a clerk to learn. It's not just, "Here's your change. Thank you".

They deal with vendors and questions about paying bills through the mail. They would have to READ a lot, too, especially those forms for paying bills.

Re: Chinese
Be aware that many might not be immigrants. They might have been born here like the zainichi Koreans.


You're right, and that's what I was getting at----though, would the average foreigner be able to tell if the clerk wasn't native born Japanese, but Chinese or Korean raised in Japan?

Along those lines, just sort of compared it to the convenience stores near my house here---lots of social back and forth I'd never experienced in stores in Japan, where things were more formalized.


If someone were raised in Japan, how would a Japanese-born Japanese person know they were Chinese or Korean, but raised in Japan either?


My girlfriend mentioned the other day that she could tell the people working at a restaurant were Chinese...from the way they handed the menus to us with one hand. Perhaps they were just less well-trained Japanese, but there are things that distinguish one group from another.
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