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westy



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:15 am    Post subject: ..... Reply with quote

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Last edited by westy on Sat May 03, 2014 8:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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FarGone



Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See: Other IGIT threads.

& then: Just don't.
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melt



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to report iGIT (affectionately known as 'idiot gits', or just plain 'idiots'!) to the police, after they 'decided' that they wouldn't return my passport to me. One of their 'bosses' even threatened me!

After a long wait at the main Jeddah police station, I gave a full report to the duty senior officer. Surprisingly, he asked for the mobile numberidiots main man in Jeddah. It was c. 3 am when he called the said. Almost instantaneously I recieved a call from iGIT's Jeddah bloke. The panic in his voice was almost pleasurable. Apparently, this wasn't the first time that iGIT had been reported to the police. The very next day, I was on a plane back to blighty with full payment of monies owed to me in cash.

I was soon contacted by some colleagues left behind, that iGIT had decided to reduce the salaries of existing teachers, told some that they had 10 days to leave KSA (or else they'd be illegal). And Even sacked some teachers, even refusing to pay their return tickets (deducting the said from their final salaries!)
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FarGone



Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fun! Razz

Yes, this IS the way to treat "Boss(es)" in the KSA (and elsewhere in the Middle East). I did the same thing: I was told by my IGIT "boss" that I could not have my passport back; my response: "The US Embassy is 300meters from this office, and I will be very happy to walk right now and report you, personally, as having stolen my passport." (My passport was returned to me immediately.)

I made mention, in writing, of this (and other violations made by IGIT "Administrators") on an amended "Termination Letter" that I received and on which I demanded to be able to add my comments, otherwise--yes--I would visit the US Embassy and report IGIT.

Shame them/blame them. It's the only way to teach these 3rd-party contractors anything; and, hopefully, such responses get the companies shut down permanently.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 15965
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FarGone wrote:
Fun! I was told by my IGIT "boss" that I could not have my passport back; my response: "The US Embassy is 300meters from this office, and I will be very happy to walk right now and report you, personally, as having stolen my passport." (My passport was returned to me immediately.)

Good thing he was so misinformed that he thought that the US embassy would do anything. They definitely will not...

You seem to be of the mistaken impressions that the US embassy is there to help American citizens... ah contraire... they are there to help American companies. We are totally irrelevant...

VS
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FarGone



Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VS,

How long did you spend in the KSA?

(As to the nature of the Consulate "threat": Were I to NOT have had my passport given back to me, the US Consulate [its official title in the KSA; not Embassy] would certainly have offered assistance, as I would have reported it as stolen. As I did in another country, and went thru its US Embassy to see of my replacement, which they, then, requested thru the US Dept. of State as a matter of emergency.)

"Snarky is, as snarky does" - mother of Forrest Gump
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1373
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FarGone wrote:
VS,

How long did you spend in the KSA?

(As to the nature of the Consulate "threat": Were I to NOT have had my passport given back to me, the US Consulate [its official title in the KSA; not Embassy] would certainly have offered assistance, as I would have reported it as stolen. As I did in another country, and went thru its US Embassy to see of my replacement, which they, then, requested thru the US Dept. of State as a matter of emergency.)

"Snarky is, as snarky does" - mother of Forrest Gump


Two wrongs don't make a right...
So you would have lied to the US Embassy to get another passport? I think you have a misconception regarding what the Embassy can do for you...Granting you a new passport is a far cry from actually helping you deal with your shady employer, since you would have lied to get another passport, therefore they really wouldn't have helped sort out your situation now would they? In addition you didn't state why your employer was withholding your passport in the first place. It seems there are missing pieces to this puzzle. Just out of curiosity... how did you plan on getting your final exit visa stamped in your 'new' passport? Perhaps you didn't think that far in advance as to possible senarios? Your employer is the only one that is able to grant you your final exit visa.

Your post is misleading at best to assume your country's embassy would step in to help you sort out your employment problem. I guess lucky for you that your employer fell for your empty threat...other wise your only option would have been to run to the US Embassy and tell a big fat LIE...guess you and your employer have something in common... Laughing


Last edited by cmp45 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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FarGone



Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eh-eh: Refusal to hand me back my passport = theft.

If you give someone your wallet in good faith (e.g., you know the person...not a stranger), 'cos you're busy on your cell phone and it's easier to hand the person your wallet to fish through for the few bucks you need to use to pay a toll gate operator, or whatnot, and that person doesn't give you your wallet back, um, what do you call it?

Theft = theft. Doesn't matter if it's a Saudi employer who is holding your passport or a friend in the passenger seat who just thieved your wallet.

wOw.
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1373
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FarGone wrote:
eh-eh: Refusal to hand me back my passport = theft.

If you give someone your wallet in good faith (e.g., you know the person...not a stranger), 'cos you're busy on your cell phone and it's easier to hand the person your wallet to fish through for the few bucks you need to use to pay a toll gate operator, or whatnot, and that person doesn't give you your wallet back, um, what do you call it?

Theft = theft. Doesn't matter if it's a Saudi employer who is holding your passport or a friend in the passenger seat who just thieved your wallet.

wOw.


Telling the US Embassy that your employer is withholding your passport is not quite the same thing as saying it was stolen. You do know where it is therefore technically it is not stolen. You entered in to a contract with your employer and willingly handed your passport over to them. You still did not state why they refused to give your passport back to you. Care to elaborate?
Despite what you may think about your entitlements and rights as a US citizen, you are NOT in the USA, so you do not get to flaunt those rights on Saudi soil. Do you think the Embassy would grant you a new passport if they knew your employer had it? In all probability they would ask why they refused to give it back to you and then probably tell you to sort it out with your employer. Since you did not actually have to go to the Embassy, you are making assumptions that the US Embassy would indeed have helped you out or given you a new passport ...still misleading to others...
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FarGone



Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "site manager" in Jeddah, in charge of IGIT teachers working at the Royal Saudi Naval Base claimed that my passport was in Riyadh, and that it'd be impossible to get back for a 3-day weekend; turns out, the passport was in his desk, right in front of me, in Jeddah. (The skunk; definitely "haram".)

As far as Embassies/Consulates "not helping," I have already stated that an Embassy official in a country that I was traveling in DID, in fact, issue a wire to the Consular Section in Washington D.C. and DID help me obtain a new passport for one that was stolen from a bag which was also stolen.

So, you're wrong on both counts. Dunno if you're a Saudi apologist or someone who is unfamiliar with what Consular Services actually do (or, what they can do when presented a good case).
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1373
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FarGone wrote:
The "site manager" in Jeddah, in charge of IGIT teachers working at the Royal Saudi Naval Base claimed that my passport was in Riyadh, and that it'd be impossible to get back for a 3-day weekend; turns out, the passport was in his desk, right in front of me, in Jeddah. (The skunk; definitely "haram".)

As far as Embassies/Consulates "not helping," I have already stated that an Embassy official in a country that I was traveling in DID, in fact, issue a wire to the Consular Section in Washington D.C. and DID help me obtain a new passport for one that was stolen from a bag which was also stolen.

So, you're wrong on both counts. Dunno if you're a Saudi apologist or someone who is unfamiliar with what Consular Services actually do (or, what they can do when presented a good case).


Not an apologist, just a realist!
Good that 'they' helped in your particular exceptional case. Just curious though ...how did you know that your passport was actually in his desk, right in front of you? I envision you leaping over scuffling with the man to check his desk??? Laughing


Last edited by cmp45 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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FarGone



Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was one foot out of his office and headed toward the US Consulate, he said, "Wait!...then he picked up the phone and called his 'Bosses' in Riyadh; then he sheepishly reached into his desk and tossed me my passport.

DO NOT work for IGIT.
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1373
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are employers in KSA that definitely need to be avoided, but I hope you do not assume that all Saudis operate this way. I have worked for three different Saudi employers and handed over my passport in exchange for my Igama, but have never once had a problem getting my passport back when I needed/ wanted to travel. Sorry that you had such a bad experience.
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wantok



Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alla yous: It is false to assume that the passport is yours. That's merely your presumption.

You do not own the passport you applied and paid for. It's not a right; it's a privilege. You've paid for the service rendered to international travellers -- which the product represents.

It is the official property of issuing authority alone. You enjoy the privilege of temporary custodianship of that documented service until expiration or confiscation and perhaps cancellation by your government.

When it expires, the issuing government rightfully cancels it without notification to you. It may become a personal souvenir item; it's your prerogative.

If the product gets lost or stolen, the service continues until the following passport's expiration or new extended expiration following formal notification and application protocol.

Passports may be temporarily "borrowed" (redundancy alert!) by only an official of the state (sometimes uniformed) you're applying to, or visiting, or employed in, for purposes to complete formalities related to that nation's immigration and judicial etc. regulations, including prevention of your immediate escape.

Your recruiter or employer or director or hotel reception clerk is not a government official.

You do not "trade" your passport in for an iqama sponsored by your employer in whom you have, presumably, trust. You lend it to the entrusted conduit who then forwards it to applicable official authorities for the iqama application period (90 days max) and it MUST MUST MUST be returned to you.

UN conventions.

Look there on the back of the front cover, or maybe on the front of the back cover.

The astute traveller will document the paths that passport takes, recording names and titles and departments and personal identifications, until its eventual return.

Duh!


Last edited by wantok on Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12385
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wantok.

Theory and practice - when you're in Saudi, you either play by their rules or you take you ball and go home.
And DO NOT EXPECT ANY help from your embassy. That's reality.

Regards,
John.
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