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Need some advice
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12056
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2004 4:03 pm    Post subject: Maybe not Reply with quote

Dear scot47,
I don't know - if he gets that MA in TESOL, I wouldn't be surprised if he received some good offers, even without the experience - especially with the situation as it is (and will likely remain). The traffic of qualified people is, I imagine, going mostly the other way (i.e. returning home) nowadays, and even back before that, I knew a fair number of people at the IPA who arrived fresh from grad school (with little or no overseas teaching experience).
Regards,
John
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 11727
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat

This guy is aged 20. Will anyone take on a minor ?
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aussie_teacher



Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 26
Location: UAE

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scot,

A "minor"???? How'd you get that? I'd like you to review your terminology before blurting out things like that. If you're suggesting that i'm a minor because of my age, then when is one considered an adult and by who's definition? If you think nobody will hire me because you believe a person like me can't take on responsibility, i will have you know that i have been working since i was 10, cared for a disabled father for 3 years, engaged at the age of 17, married at 18, had my first child at 19, skipped a year at the University of Sydney and currently doing my M.A with ppl as old as yourself. These are just a few of my responsibilities over the past few years. I am not telling you this to brag, but to bring something to your attention. Not every 20 year old living in the west is a irresponsible, incapable "minor".

I don't believe that i have reached the pinacle of wisdom. Nor do i believe that i'm the best candidate for a job like this. I'm sure someone like yourself would probably do a much better job. However, i do believe that i am NOT a minor and that i am capabile of teaching a class of students from NESB. Whether i get the job or not is another question...

So next time you make a statement like that, please qualify your argument.

Mostafa
Thank you
[/quote]
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 11727
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject: ksa for 20 years old Reply with quote

Mostafa

Okay you do not like what I say, but I reapeat that at the age of 20 or 21 you will not easily find a decent job in Saudi or the Emirates.

By all means apply. I think your chances at your age are not good - especially when you ahve no substantial full-time teaching experience.

A minor in Saudi Arabia is someone who is under 21.

Why go postal when you read news you do not like ? You post a question. Then you do not like the answer so you go ballistic.

MY OPINION IS THAT IT IS UNLIKELY THAT YOU WILL GET A JOB IN KSA AT YOUR AGE. I AM NOT SAYING THAT YOU ARE IMMATURE OR INCOMPETENT OR AN AIRHEAD !

On reflection, if you react this way..............................how will you react under stress in Saudi ?
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12056
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 11:42 am    Post subject: Ageism Reply with quote

Dear aussie_teacher,
Scot47 has, as usual, a point here. Saudi Arabia is, from my experience, one of the few EFL locales in the world where "youth" is not an advantage.
Most, maybe all, other places seem to prefer young(er) staff, but the Kingdom is often where old EFLers go to finish off their "careers". They've had their fun in all those other "exotic" posts and then they head for Saudi to put the fun aspect aside and put some money in the bank. Most of my colleagues were semi-geezers or geezers (as I am), teachers who'd "been around the block a few times (or more than a few). However, I'd say once again, that, given the current situation, the chances of young(er), more inexperienced, people being hired are better now than they used to be. So it won't hurt to give it your best shot; unlikely doesn't mean impossible, and these days I think you may well have a better than 50/50 chance.
Regards,
John
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Bindair Dundat



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 1123

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aussie_teacher wrote:

A "minor"???? How'd you get that? I'd like you to review your terminology before blurting out things like that.


Dear Mr. Teacher,

Please do not take Mr. 47's remarks personally. Of course he doesn't know you, so he cannot possibly be passing judgment on you personally -- can he? He is giving you his best appraisial of the situation, and I think it is accurate.

Yours,

BD
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The odds of your being offered a job in a government institution at your age are low.

You will be younger than most of the students you will be teaching, and they will not be too inclined to respect you.

Also people will doubt that you are going to stay the course.

And frankly, why on earth do you want to come to Saudi at age twenty?
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, the legal minimum age for employing "Western" ex-pats is 23. However, I have heard of the occasional exception.
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aussie_teacher



Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 26
Location: UAE

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Stephen,

My intention is to establish a new life there. I don't like moving around too much and i believe that Saudi is a stable place to start and finish. I'm also a Muslim, and having the opportunity to do Hajj every year is marvelous.

Again, i thank everyone for their advice.

Mostafa
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 11727
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mostafa, do NOT tell the interviewer that. The chances are that if you do he will not ofer you a job.

And the Saudis are not too keen on encouraging people to come from outside and live here permanently. This is NOT California.
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scot,

Your Saudi expereince, is, of course, considerably greater than mine, but I would think that the fact that Mostafa is committed to saudi Arabia would actually be a help to his job hunt, particularly in the current climate, when ex-pats are packing up and leaving (or so we're told) every day.

I would think employers would be happy to find someone who's not likely to bolt at the next bomb (and, sad to see, there almost certainly will be a next bomb).
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aussie_teacher



Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 26
Location: UAE

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Scot,
What then do i say to the Saudis?
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 11727
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 9:02 am    Post subject: ozz or.....? Reply with quote

Cleo and Mostafa

Many employers in KSA ( both Saudi and expat )are deeply suspicious of teachers who want to come here for religious reasons.

They also tend to be suspicious of those with "First World" passports (if Oz is "First World") but with ethnicity that indicates they are originally from elsewhere.

I am giving you a report on how it is - so do not go berserk and blame me for the way things are. The fact is that most Saudis would perceive Mostafa to be an Egyptian and not an Ozzie.

Unfair ? Yes. The world is unfair.

Mostafa, tell the interviewer that you hope to come for a few years, and that you are a Muslim, but do NOT tell him you want to settle down here.
Of course you would welcome the opportunity to go on Hajj (maybe not every year - that is restricted now for Saudis and foreigners) and that you look forward to ebing in the Land of the Two Holy Mosques, but do not get too heavy on the religious thing - unless your interviewer is a Mutawwa type.
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Albulbul



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 9:22 am    Post subject: Hajj Reply with quote

M

Going on pilgrimage every year is not an option now. The Ministry of Pilgrimage and the Ministry of the Interior now cooperate to ensure that if you live in Saudi Arabai you can only do the Hajj once every five years.

No limit on Umrah though.

In any case why do the Pilgrimage annually ? Would it not be better after you yourself have done it to help another do it, or give the money to the poor ?

I cannot see what authority there is in Hadith or Sunna for doing the pilgrimage annually. I would be pleased to reconsider my position if you can persuade me.
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Bindair Dundat



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 1123

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aussie_teacher wrote:
Dear Scot,
What then do i say to the Saudis?


Tell them that you want to TEACH, and that you look forward to the challenge of working with students who are studying X because you are deeply interested in X yourself. Then mention your interest in the language, the culture, the history, and the geography. Lastly, bring in the weather, the food, the cosmopolitan atmosphere, etc. And don't forget to tell them how much you like Saudi people!

BD
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