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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: Human Rights in the Solomon Islands |
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Why do people get excited about Burma and Zimbabwe but not about most of the Third World where life is equally awful ? |
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Barbaros
Joined: 18 Aug 2012 Posts: 58 Location: North of France
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Because of double standards. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Barbaros, why have you changed your name and moved to the "North of France" ? Are you in flight from the Mukhabarat ?
Last edited by scot47 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Barbaros
Joined: 18 Aug 2012 Posts: 58 Location: North of France
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Parce que j�adore les Fran�ais! |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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But are "they" coming to get you ? (ie Istikhbarat/Mukhabarat/the Spooks) |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Does silence mean guilt ? |
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Qaaolchoura
Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 539 Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Scot, I think there's two things. First, there's local factors:
In Burma, it's because the ruling junta held elections, lost them, and didn't hand over power. Rigging elections is just fine and dandy under the norms of the international community, but not honoring them after you failed to rig them enough is considered a major faux pas.
In Zimbabwe it's because Robert Mugabe was treated as a leader and a visionary on par with Nelson Mandela. When it turned out he was your run-of-the-mill thug, everybody who had praised him suddenly had egg on their face, and made the most of a bad situation by roundly denouncing him.
The other thing, I think, is that while most tin-pot dictators keep their countries from developing rich by embezzling development aid and proceeds from their natural resources, Mugabe and the Burmese junta took relatively prosperous, model colonies and through skillful misgovernment turned them into complete basket-cases. This riches-to-rags story appeals both to advocates and apologists of imperialism, and to people who just like a good Greek tragedy. "The black man with the Hitler mustache turned Africa's breadbasket into a basketcase" is a far more compelling story than "life in Equatorial Guinea is still nasty, brutal, and short."
That's my take anyways.
Regards,
~Q |
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Qaaolchoura
Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 539 Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Now the double standard that gets to me:
Iran is a brutal, theocratic regime that mistreats women, barely tolerates its religious minorities, and supports terrorist groups throughout the fertile crescent. On the other hand, it lets religious minorities pray openly and until the last one had elections which were not even remotely free but were fair.
Saudi Arabia is a brutal, theocratic regime without an elected parliament, treats women as legal minors, doesn't acknowledge the existence of religious minorities, let alone any silly things like "rights" they might have, and has funded the spread of Salafism, the hardline strain of Sunnism responsible for pretty much all Islamist terrorism outside the Middle East, and for the theocratic governments that took hold in previously relatively theologically flexible regions, such as Somalia, Afghanistan, Mali, and Aceh. It's also a country that recently invaded a neighboring country to crush a flourishing pro-democracy movement.
Both of these get away with these things because they have hella oil under their soil, and there's always someone who will buy. Both countries are also vehemently anti-Israel as a matter of public policy, and teach anti-Americanism in schools.
However only one of these is a valued ally of the great liberal democracy known as the United States, while the other sits on the "state sponsors of terror list" and and hasn't had diplomatic relations with my country in over thirty years.
Which makes sense to me, one has a government that is clearly evil but seems to offer the chance for gradual reform, while the other is rotten to the core and seems to be completely irredeemable and can't be fixed without a complete and thorough regime change, best effected by non-engagement and sanctions. The US government seems to have reached the same conclusion.
What I can't for the life of me figure out is why we've decided the devil worth dealing with is Saudi Arabia.
As someone who's lived there Scot, perhaps you can enlighten me?
Regards,
~Q |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Qaaolchoura,
One word - stability.
The Royals want to preserve the status quo - which the US also wants. Iran wants to "export" its "Islamic Revolution."
In the Middle East especially, change is almost always for the worse.
Regards,
John |
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Qaaolchoura
Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 539 Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:12 am Post subject: |
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The Royals want to preserve the SQ in the Gulf because the SQ in the Gulf is already in their favor. They don't seem to respect the status quo in the rest of the Muslim world, where they're happy to build Salafist mosques and fund "peaceful" Salafist preachers directly, and to turn a blind eye while their subjects (who they indoctrinated in xenophobia, theocracy, and misogyny during their formative years) fund the mujahideen. And unlike the Iranians, who are hampered by being Shiites in a Sunni Muslim world, the Saudis have been succeeding.
Any time I read about an Islamist terrorist attack or jihadist takeover outside the Middle East, or hear about a really stupid statement come from the mouth of an iman in a Western country, I play a little game seeing how many steps it takes to trace it back to the House of Saud (it usually takes considerably less than the six).
~Q |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Dear Qaaolchoura,
We are/were talking about the Gulf, weren't we, Iran and Saudi? I mean, my status quo has no connection to your status quo.
Regards,
John |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Ah yes those wicked Iranians with their nasty bomb ! A clear and presebnt danger to world peace. We must nuke them. This is necessary in order to preserve peace. |
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