Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

A Decent Salary?
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Poland
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TravelTeacher83



Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: A Decent Salary? Reply with quote

I got offered a position in Warsaw. The teaching responsibilities seem pretty standard to what I was expecting but the thing I'm a little concerned about is the pay.

When I asked about the pay, I was told that teachers are paid by rate and that I could expect an average of about 3,000 zloty per month (of course this means there is a possibility of earning less or more).

Assuming I couldn't get extra tutoring jobs or extra classes and I was literally making 3,000 zloty per month and had to pay for my own housing and utilities, is that offer even worth considering? Would I have a semblance of at least some kind of savings at the end of a year (I rarely drink and am not a fan of the club scene)? Would I be able to have a somewhat comfortable life in Warsaw (I like keeping it low-key with nights in)?

P.S. I've had other offers in other countries that pay more and offer way more incentives. I love Poland and would be open to doing this job but I don't want to work essentially for free or need to dig into my savings to survive.

Thanks for the input!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richfilth



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Warszawa

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3000 is the bare minimum for life in Warsaw. But you haven't stated if that's before or after tax, or how many hours of work and at what times of the day (which matters). Nor do we know what sort of qualification or experience you have, or whether you want to teach kids or adults.

But on 3000zl net you will be counting the pennies to see if you can afford a bottle of wine at the end of the month. You will have to turn down offers to see movies at cinemas because you won't have the cash to pay the phone bill. You will be reduced to wondering whether you can afford a new pair of shoes OR a new coat to get through the winter, but not both. There is no chance of any savings.

Bear in mind, I was making 3000 in cash PLUS free accommodation, fresh off the plane eight years ago, and Poland has got a lot more expensive since then.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 505

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would qualify Richfilth's statement about that being bare minimum to survive by saying that it is bare minimum if and only if you share a small apartment, not near the center. Without getting into price specifics, again, paying for a place on your own, including electric, gas, etc. just doesn't seem doable, but hey! Maybe you have a rich grandmother or something... If the hours are low and convenient, you could make it work with private students.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 945
Location: Itabashi, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richfilth wrote:
3000 is the bare minimum for life in Warsaw. But you haven't stated if that's before or after tax, or how many hours of work and at what times of the day (which matters). Nor do we know what sort of qualification or experience you have, or whether you want to teach kids or adults.

Yes, this really makes a huge difference.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TravelTeacher83



Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses.

I have a CELTA, Masters, and prior teaching experience.

Regarding the work schedule, it would be mainly with adults with split shifts (7am - 12pm) (5pm - 10pm) along with occasional Saturdays. However, I am not certain if the 3000 is before or after taxes, I will ask about that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 945
Location: Itabashi, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravelTeacher83 wrote:
Thanks for the responses.

I have a CELTA, Masters, and prior teaching experience.

Regarding the work schedule, it would be mainly with adults with split shifts (7am - 12pm) (5pm - 10pm) along with occasional Saturdays. However, I am not certain if the 3000 is before or after taxes, I will ask about that.
So standard prime-time hours. Assuming you work more-or-less 'full-time' for this school (i.e. 24 60-min hours a week), you're earning 31.25 zl/hour. That is absolutely pathetic for someone with a CELTA & MA + exp.. Don't walk, RUN away from that offer. All the more so if it's gross pay. I know completely unqualified drifter natives earning more.

60zl/60min. is the gold standard in Warsaw - the minimum a qualified teacher such as yourself should be asking.

I'm guessing you aren't in Warsaw and got this offer from abroad. Come to Warsaw and you will dig up much better offers. I can even point you in the right direction if you drop me a PM.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richfilth



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Warszawa

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd echo Shake's comments. 60zl/hour isn't just the gold standard, it's the bare minimum. Anyone getting less than that in Warsaw is either a bad teacher or a bad businessman... or both.

This job is offering to take your most profitable hours (before and after 9-5) and pay you half the going rate for it. In contrast, my prices for 1-to-1 classes at those times start at 90zl/hour, which will help you appreciate just how much this school is trying to milk you for.

A lower hourly rate can make sense if you can use the "dead time" in a teacher's schedule (after 10am, before 4pm), and it's up to you whether you want to charge more or less for your Saturdays. But 30zl per hour is a pure rip-off.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 524

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richfilth wrote:
This job is offering to take your most profitable hours (before and after 9-5) and pay you half the going rate for it. In contrast, my prices for 1-to-1 classes at those times start at 90zl/hour, which will help you appreciate just how much this school is trying to milk you for.


Worth pointing out though - if this is a Callan school, it's not so unreasonable. But then again, surely someone with a CELTA, Masters, et al wouldn't be going near such a place.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 945
Location: Itabashi, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TT83, why not share the name of the school? Perhaps we can tell you more.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Daktari



Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:10 am    Post subject: Don't Reply with quote

Don't go near a job like that as it's a truly pathetic offer. The split shifts also knacker your ability to do privates. I was making 6.5k with free accommodation back in 97 :-)....I lived like a king back then.

IH currently offer less than 3,000Zl and Bell aren't much better. After rent and bills, I'd say you need a minimum of 100Zl a day to live as a single person. Going out is expensive unless you go native and search out dreadful eateries and 5Zl bars. Who'd want to go native in Poland? As a westerner it's a big drop in the standard of living from everything to the quality of stuff, the bureaucracy, social attitudes and yes, of course the money. 100Zl a day is 20 quid or $30 more or less. Could you live on that back home? Doubt it. In the UK 20 quid is a packet of cigarettes, a gallon of petrol, a big mac meal and a coffee in Starbucks. The prices of many things in Poland match those in the UK. !00zl a day plus your rent and bills is approaching 5,000Zl, which for me would be the bare minimum. Got kids? That's a whole different ball park.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Daktari



Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: and... Reply with quote

The oft-quoted golden minimum of 60Zl/teaching hour means that some of the chaps claiming to take home 8-9k a month are teaching between 40 and 50 hours a week. Add the travel time to and fro and you might get a picture of the lives they lead.

Of course, they could all be working for the British Council ;-)-not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 945
Location: Itabashi, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: and... Reply with quote

Daktari wrote:
The oft-quoted golden minimum of 60Zl/teaching hour means that some of the chaps claiming to take home 8-9k a month are teaching between 40 and 50 hours a week. Add the travel time to and fro and you might get a picture of the lives they lead.

Of course, they could all be working for the British Council Wink-not.


You need to check your math.

60zl (gold-standard net hourly pay) X 40 hours teaching a week X 4 weeks in a month = 9,600zl per month AFTER taxes.

This is a crazy number of hours, but it pays well-over the 8-9k you quoted.

More realistically speaking: 60zl (gold-standard net hourly pay) X 24 hours teaching a week (full time) X 4 weeks in a month =5760zl per month AFTER taxes.

This is definitely a livable wage in Warsaw and miles above what the average Pole earns. What's more, it merely represents the MINIMUM a qualified native speaker could/should be earning. There are opportunities to earn more if you look, and the British Council is not the only game in town - though they do pay well over 60zl/hour.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richfilth



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Warszawa

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

60zl is the minimum with qualifications. And if you're still working for a school after three years, you should have enough contacts and knowledge of the market to go it alone and set up your own firm.

By cutting out the middleman and managing your timetable efficiently, 10k a month net can be done without busting a gut.

If you scramble around the city taking every lesson available (including that 45mins with a kid in Ursynow that everyone gets offered) then you'll do a 12-hour day for 4 hours' money. But target your work to one client area, such as the Srodmiescie skyscrapers or the Wola/Mokotow business estates, and you can pick up blocks of clients in the same buildings where the only travel time is the elevator between floors.

as an example, my five hours' work today plus one hour of travelling equates to just under 500zl net, all legal, declared and proven should I wish to take a bigger mortgage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12245
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Sharing ? Reply with quote

sharing accommodation ? Not for adults, thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1031

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: and... Reply with quote

Master Shake wrote:


More realistically speaking: 60zl (gold-standard net hourly pay) X 24 hours teaching a week (full time) X 4 weeks in a month =5760zl per month AFTER taxes.

.


there's an underlying problem with these numbers: you're not taking into consideration your vacation time (unpaid usually), downtime in the summer (at least 8 weeks) and all the holidays Poles don't work on, also unpaid.

so sure, so let's say maybe you make 5,760 in the month of April. What will you take home in June? July? August? What will you take home in May with a couple govt. holidays in there as well as say a 1 week vacation you took flying back home or someplace else? what will you earn in December with Christmas and New Year's? and we haven't even begun to discuss cancellations.

unless you're on guaranteed salary with paid vacation/govt. holidays year round, you can't budget without taking these things into consideration.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Poland All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC