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negotiating with desperate university?
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twistedtongue



Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: negotiating with desperate university? Reply with quote

I am a female ESL instructor - MA in English with concentration in Linguistics. More than 5 yrs univ teaching experience in states. I am looking for teaching job in KSA, but want it to be worth ($$$) the move. I see that PNU is still needing lots of female ESL instructors, but the pay seems quite low - $3500/mos plus free housing. Are univ able to increase salary if desperate? Anything else that could be negotiated? Thanks in advance!
TT
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16182
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may want to consider looking at the universities in the UAE. They seem to pay better and have better working and living conditions than Saudi for women.

VS
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12482
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My expeience is that Saudis do not negotiate. They call the shts. If you do not like the deal, they will expect you to walk away.

Realistically, you are notgoing vto get more than they have already offered/
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PeterParvo



Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with VS. That offer is nothing to write home about, especially considering what you have to offer.
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twistedtongue



Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you - will keep looking.

TT
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 5142
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twistedtongue wrote:
Thank you - will keep looking.

The problem is your timing; most of the recruiting/hiring for direct-hire positions is winding down. There may still be some opportunities for the 2013-2014 academic year, but you'll likely have to check each university's website for openings. Ditto for university opportunities in other countries in the region. Do a wiki search on universities colleges (country) for a list of private and public institutions.

If you're currently employed, you might hold off your job hunt until the beginning of next year. If you're in the US, plan to attend TESOL International's annual convention/job fair in Portland, OR, in late March. Better yet, consider attending TESOL Arabia's similar event in Dubai in mid-March when the major unis throughout the Gulf do the brunt of their recruiting and face-to-face interviewing for the upcoming academic year.
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lcanupp1964



Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 351
Location: Jeddah, KSA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing to think about is having the bad timing of the hiring season winding down work for you. If you are able to leave within a few days notice, there will be many teachers that were hired for a Sept. start that will either change their minds, or will not be able to get a visa. I was on a plane four days after my interview for a teaching position in Oman about six years ago. This won't work for KSA unless you get a business visa, which is never a good idea (just read all the posts about business visas). Good luck!
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twistedtongue



Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your responses. I am currently employed and not desperate, so I will take my time and keep looking!
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Sheik Yerbuti



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 70
Location: dusty outpost way down south

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would a university be in a big hurry to hire someone
with no Saudi teaching experience , and pay them more than
3500 a month? What a joke.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 846
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: ha Reply with quote

Because Sheikh...if you had half the brain your tone suggests you think you have, you would know that wages are made up of economic rent and transfer earnings. I would imagine that someone with 5 years experience teaching at a first world academic institution would command quite a high amount in transfer earnings. $3,500 is pitiful for any job in the Kingdom.
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Sheik Yerbuti



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 70
Location: dusty outpost way down south

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you'd be wrong again, monk. How many successful years do you
have in Saudi Arabia? For how many different employers? I have seen
plenty of teachers in my time here with dual Master's, Ph D's and , yes, fully
certified back home who have bit the dust first semester, unable to
transition to managing Saudi students. As I said, it is not the
employers who are desperate.
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sicklyman



Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 516

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: ha Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
I would imagine that someone with 5 years experience teaching at a first world academic institution would command quite a high amount in transfer earnings.

keep imagining... I seriously doubt that there is a single institution here that is serious about English to the extent that they would be willing to pay much more than that and, if they did, it would have little or nothing to do with "teaching at a first world [sic] academic institution". Other disciplines? Maybe. English? No.

The money's where the oil is, not the academics.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12482
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salaries at KSA Unis are not as high as commonly imagined. US$4,000 a month with accommodation is about as high as you will get. Females typically get less. There is a scale, and you can rise on the scale to a bit more than this.

What makes it worthwhile is that KSA is a cheap place to live, unless you require lots of imported Scotch. Your income is tax free and you have no outgoings for rent etc.

You can increase your income with overtime, privates, editing work and summer schools.
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robbie_davies



Joined: 13 Jun 2013
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: ha Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
Because Sheikh...if you had half the brain your tone suggests you think you have, you would know that wages are made up of economic rent and transfer earnings. I would imagine that someone with 5 years experience teaching at a first world academic institution would command quite a high amount in transfer earnings. $3,500 is pitiful for any job in the Kingdom.


Erm - no. I also have seen some massively qualified people ground into the dust, running to the airport within weeks, never mind months. That is why a lot of the better paying jobs ask for 'Middle East' experience.

If she has never left the states in her ESL career. I wouldn't hire her. Saudi is a real baptism of fire for a first posting overseas.
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inKIMtax



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 14
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: negotiating with desperate university? Reply with quote

Just to let you know, I am a 44 year old female with a M.Ed and BA in English + TESL certificate and 7 years experience. My first job in Saudi was at KSU for $3,600. I am now asking $4,000 and have had an offer for $3,800. I started my job search at the beginning of May and had a lot of bogus offers. I am now starting to get serious replies and believe that as July progresses and all the recruiters realize that they are not making their quotas, bartering will get easier and a $4,000 salary will be possible. There is a huge need for female teachers in Saudi so we should all hold out for higher salaries.
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