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PaulSal
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 20
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 Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:30 pm Post subject: Celta Certification Apostilled |
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I wanted to expand upon an earlier Thread regarding having the Celta Certificate Apostilled.
I am planning on completing the CELTA Certificate Course in the United States.
The Celta Certificate is issued by Cambridge University located in England.
Upon completion of the CELTA Certificate, I will then need to have this Apostilled from the issuing country- England.
I need to have this Certificate Apostilled because I could end up working in 1 or more foreign countries, and they could require it.
I tried calling IH and TH and they don't seem to have a clue about getting the Celta Apostilled.
Could someone who has needed to have their Celta Apostilled explain to me what the process is?
I have read the Sticky regarding Apostilles- but none of the information there specifically addresses the Celta Certificate.
Another Thread basically talked about getting the TEFL and other Documents Apostilled:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=852552
Tretyakovskii mentioned that:
"I had the original TEFL, but it was neither certified, nor apostilled, and getting it apostilled was going to be problematic, as it was from a third country."
Spector mentioned that:
"I've seen in the UK, the common practice is to Apostille a copy of the Degree, rather than the original"
willpeach85 mentioned that:
"Getting the CELTA apostilled - is it issued from the UK? I'm I did the course in Vietnam but am a native Brit in London now. Can I get it apostilled here because the teaching body is UK-based?"
However nobody responded to that question about the Celta.
Thanks in advance for your help! |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Why not check directly with the Cambridge office here in Mexico?
http://www.cambridgeesolmexico.org/
Shoot them an email...they should have your answer. |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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You can get it Apostilled in the US, by having a US Notary Public make a notarized photo copy of it. They something don't realize that this is one of their powers so if they claim that they can't do that, ask them to check in their Notary handbook. There they will find the language that they must type onto the back of the photo copy and sign and stamp it.
Then you visit the Sectretary of State of the State that the Notary is registered in. They will check their files and compare the notary's signature with the one in their file and then APOSTILLE the document which certifies that the notary is a true notary public in that state.
This does not certify that your CELTA is authentic and I've even seen a fake CELTA get appostilled this way. (I'm NOT recommending that any one do that--your co-workers will be able to tell the difference and will rat you out.  )
But immigration doesn't seem to know the difference. 
Oh I also know a Brit who was in the US and had his original British University degree with him, he decided to go this route to get his appostile and then come to Mexico. Immigration didn't even bat an eye at the US apotille on his British degree. |
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PaulSal
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:19 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for your fast reply. I will email them.
But this sort-of leads to another question:
If this Certificate gets appostilled, in either the US or England (still not sure about which is correct) and for the sake of argument- it is accepted by Mexico.
What is the transferability then of this Certificate?
For example:
I haven't been reading the best replies about working in Mexico, and if in fact Mexico does not work out for me and I would need to go to a different country altogether, would this apostilled certificate be accepted anywhere? |
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PaulSal
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| MotherF wrote: |
You can get it Apostilled in the US, by having a US Notary Public make a notarized photo copy of it. They something don't realize that this is one of their powers so if they claim that they can't do that, ask them to check in their Notary handbook. There they will find the language that they must type onto the back of the photo copy and sign and stamp it.
Then you visit the Sectretary of State of the State that the Notary is registered in. They will check their files and compare the notary's signature with the one in their file and then APOSTILLE the document which certifies that the notary is a true notary public in that state.
This does not certify that your CELTA is authentic and I've even seen a fake CELTA get appostilled this way. (I'm NOT recommending that any one do that--your co-workers will be able to tell the difference and will rat you out. ) |
Thank you too for that information.
I just want to be sure that Im clear.
You're saying that after it's notarized in the Washington DC, then it would be necessary to have this apostilled in the United States as well?
Not England (from where the Certificate itself was issued) correct?
Last edited by PaulSal on Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:18 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Tretyakovskii
Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 462
Location: Cancun, Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I am planning on completing the CELTA Certificate Course in the United States. The Celta Certificate is issued by Cambridge University located in England. Upon completion of the CELTA Certificate, I will then need to have this Apostilled from the issuing country- England. I need to have this Certificate Apostilled because I could end up working in 1 or more foreign countries, and they could require it. |
All true, except for the assumption contained in the third sentence.
To do this in the most formal way, you would first have to have the issuing agency provide you with a certified copy; then, have that certified copy apostilled, or authenticated (some countries, not a party to the Hague Convention), and this then would reach the highest standard for processes of this type.
I went through the process I just mentioned on all my documents except my TEFL Certification, and it involves more pain than may be necessary.
Instead, I took an oath before a U.S. Consular official in Mexico, and making the same statement regarding my TEFL Certificate that you could make before a notary, if in the U.S. (such as was mentioned by another poster).
With the Great Seal of the United States of American impressed in the oath, and bearing the signature of the Consular Official, Mexican authorities were sufficiently satisfied with it's authenticity, accompanied as it was by the original, which I'd had in my continuous possession since the date it was issued.
I was satisfied, after reflection, that this would probably satisfy INM, and it did. |
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PaulSal
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Tretyakovskii wrote: |
To do this in the most formal way, you would first have to have the issuing agency provide you with a certified copy; then, have that certified copy apostilled, or authenticated (some countries, not a party to the Hague Convention), and this then would reach the highest standard for processes of this type. |
Hi Tretyakovskii thank you for your reply and I did read about your story previously- congradulations by the way.
I'm pretty sure that the issuing agency for the Celta Certificate is Cambridge University which is located in England. They own the Celta Program. A caveat to that is that someone else pointed out that Cambridge has an office in Mexico as well.
I saw that you were able to put together a sworn affidavit that certified the validity of your TEFL Certificate, and it was accepted in Mexico.
In my case, I want to have the Celta Certificate apostilled so that it would be valid in any country- not just Mexico.
I'm not sure if I were to get my Celta Training in Mexico- if in fact Mexico would be the country to issue the apostille, or would it be England where Cambridge University is located?
So the question has to do more with the transferability to other countries besides Mexico of this Apostilled Celta. |
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Tretyakovskii
Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 462
Location: Cancun, Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| In my case, I want to have the Celta Certificate apostilled so that it would be valid in any country- not just Mexico. |
Apostilling is not enough, it must be a certified, apostilled (or, authenticated) original document, to reach the highest level of verification readily available to us.
I have certified, apostilled orginals of my birth certificate and my college transcript. Getting a certified original of my TEFL certificate proved impossible so I was forced to adopt an alternate approach. You may not run into this difficulty.
With this in mind, you could begin now to determine if you can request that a CELTA certificate be issued as a certified document. CELTA may or may not offer this as an extra cost option for those who have successfully completed their courses. If they do not, you'll be forced back to the proposition mentioned earlier, of attaching a sworn statement to a copy of the CELTA certificate, and having that apostilled. |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| PaulSal wrote: |
| MotherF wrote: |
You can get it Apostilled in the US, by having a US Notary Public make a notarized photo copy of it. They something don't realize that this is one of their powers so if they claim that they can't do that, ask them to check in their Notary handbook. There they will find the language that they must type onto the back of the photo copy and sign and stamp it.
Then you visit the Sectretary of State of the State that the Notary is registered in. They will check their files and compare the notary's signature with the one in their file and then APOSTILLE the document which certifies that the notary is a true notary public in that state.
This does not certify that your CELTA is authentic and I've even seen a fake CELTA get appostilled this way. (I'm NOT recommending that any one do that--your co-workers will be able to tell the difference and will rat you out. ) |
Thank you too for that information.
I just want to be sure that Im clear.
You're saying that after it's notarized in the Washington DC, then it would be necessary to have this apostilled in the United States as well?
Not England (from where the Certificate itself was issued) correct? |
Yes. An apostille is and international authentication. IN the United State it is issued by the secretary of state of EACH state. Not by the federal government. (Not sure how D.C. works it). Apostilles can be issued for a variety of reasons. For example, if you wanted one on your birth certificate. The secretary of state of the state that issued the birth certificate would authenticate that this really is a birth certificate of that state. This is how most degrees are apostilled. The state where the university is located authenticates that this is a true degree of a true degree issuing institution in their state.
Another thing that a state can apostille is a notary stamp and the accompaning signature. People frequently use this means to get an appostille on an out-of-state degree without having to go to or send off to the state where they went to school. In this case the apostille has nothing to do with the document and everything to due with the notary's stamp/signature on the document. So what ever document you have the notary make a notarized copy of, you can get an apostille on. I could make you a certificate saying that you were a participant on the expedition I lead to Pluto to determine that the inhabitants were not upset about their demotion from planet to planetoid. And if we got a Notary to make a notarized copy of that certificate, then we could get the secretary of state to slap an apostille on top. |
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PaulSal
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| MotherF wrote: |
| PaulSal wrote: |
| MotherF wrote: |
You can get it Apostilled in the US, by having a US Notary Public make a notarized photo copy of it. They something don't realize that this is one of their powers so if they claim that they can't do that, ask them to check in their Notary handbook. There they will find the language that they must type onto the back of the photo copy and sign and stamp it.
Then you visit the Sectretary of State of the State that the Notary is registered in. They will check their files and compare the notary's signature with the one in their file and then APOSTILLE the document which certifies that the notary is a true notary public in that state.
This does not certify that your CELTA is authentic and I've even seen a fake CELTA get appostilled this way. (I'm NOT recommending that any one do that--your co-workers will be able to tell the difference and will rat you out. ) |
Thank you too for that information.
I just want to be sure that Im clear.
You're saying that after it's notarized in the Washington DC, then it would be necessary to have this apostilled in the United States as well?
Not England (from where the Certificate itself was issued) correct? |
Yes. An apostille is and international authentication. IN the United State it is issued by the secretary of state of EACH state. Not by the federal government. (Not sure how D.C. works it). Apostilles can be issued for a variety of reasons. For example, if you wanted one on your birth certificate. The secretary of state of the state that issued the birth certificate would authenticate that this really is a birth certificate of that state. This is how most degrees are apostilled. The state where the university is located authenticates that this is a true degree of a true degree issuing institution in their state.
Another thing that a state can apostille is a notary stamp and the accompaning signature. People frequently use this means to get an appostille on an out-of-state degree without having to go to or send off to the state where they went to school. In this case the apostille has nothing to do with the document and everything to due with the notary's stamp/signature on the document. So what ever document you have the notary make a notarized copy of, you can get an apostille on. I could make you a certificate saying that you were a participant on the expedition I lead to Pluto to determine that the inhabitants were not upset about their demotion from planet to planetoid. And if we got a Notary to make a notarized copy of that certificate, then we could get the secretary of state to slap an apostille on top. |
Thanks for that info! I contacted Cambridge in London and Mexico, and they both said the same thing. The Celta Certifications themselves, are only issued from Cambridge University in England and nowhere else. Apparently they UPS these things to whatever school you were at to complete your training.
The person at Cambridge in England indicates that they would be able to issue a "Certified Copy" of the Celta Certificate.
She wasn't sure about the Apostile thing, and they are continuing to investigate. |
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Tretyakovskii
Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 462
Location: Cancun, Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| With this in mind, you could begin now to determine if you can request that a CELTA certificate be issued as a certified document. CELTA may or may not offer this as an extra cost option for those who have successfully completed their courses. |
| Quote: |
| The person at Cambridge in England indicates that they would be able to issue a "Certified Copy" of the Celta Certificate. She wasn't sure about the Apostile thing, and they are continuing to investigate. |
They may have been talking about a certified original certificate, not a copy that someone then swore was a true and correct copy of the original; but, either way you can get it apostilled, it just removes you as the person doing the swearing!
The U.K. is a party to the Hague Convention, but I�m not sure how they go about handling apostilles there. You may still find it necessary to go through the process previously described by MotherF and others, in the U.S., after you receive the certificate, if it proves too burdensome to deal with in the U.K.
Good luck with it! |
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PaulSal
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Tretyakovskii wrote: |
They may have been talking about a certified original certificate, not a copy that someone then swore was a true and correct copy of the original; but, either way you can get it apostilled.
You may still find it necessary to go through the process previously described by MotherF and others, in the U.S., after you receive the certificate, if it proves too burdensome to deal with in the U.K.
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I'll get to the bottom of it and definitely keep this Thread updated, and they maybe they can make this a stickythread |
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