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Quagles



Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: T Reply with quote

I.

Last edited by Quagles on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're probably a pretty good example of why EFL opportunities range from few to none at all in Norway!

I really don't know about your chances in Asia, but I know native English speakers are still sought after. I don't think that eliminates you totally, though whether you'd get the same pay and conditions as a native speaker, if you find work, is unclear to me. It may come down to what passport you hold and where you did your degree(s).

If I were you, I'd consider getting that Celta or Trinity qualification (insignificant difference in terms of course content and international value) sooner than you've currently planned (holiday break maybe in the UK?). If you do so, you'd be able to look for work in the summer language schools in the UK for the summer of 2014. Having experience living and teaching English in an English speaking country (hopefully with good references) should help, although it will be short. I worked with a couple of Polish and Lithuanian teachers of English there. They were experienced, but it is possible to do this. It's the best time because there's a lot of work and not always enough teachers. Often you can get accommodation with work.

It won't be wonderful money and conditions will certainly vary, but it's a foot in the door and what I'd aim for in your shoes. Then I'd try for Asia, but I'm sure others will give you specific advice about various regions.

Quote:
I will finish my college degree at the start of 2014 (Will be 25 when I graduate), unfortunately in one of the most useless majors, Japanese. Also have one year of English at a college level as well, could potentially get a bachelor in it if I took two classes more. If I enjoy teaching, I also have the option of taking an additional year at my current University which will make me eligible to teach in my own country up to high school level.

If it won't delay your plans too much, I'd definitely try to get the two extra classes done before you head off. Can you postpone the additional year at the end of your degree and do this if/when you return to Norway? I suggest you find out if you can and how long you'd have before you'd have to be back and enrolled. It would be a very good option to have, especially if you eventually want to live in Norway permanently.
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tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your writing is pretty good.

You CAN get work in Thailand. At the entry level the salary is about 1/2 what it is in Korea but the cost of living is also much less so you can live comfortably. 30k-35k THB is the usual starting salary for a Caucasian teacher.

You probably won't start saving much before you get settled and established.

If you are a decent teacher then potential earnings in the 60k+ THB/month range are obtainable (usually by taking on extra work).

The requirements are:
degree,
transcripts,
police background check,
TOEIC score above a 600 level (IELTS, TOEFL, etc are also accepted).

A TESOL/TEFL/CELTA (brand name of a TESOL cert) is not an immigration requirement but may be an employer requirement.

You can get work in China (similar requirements- sort of the "wild-west" of the EFL world at the moment), Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam.

You are correct that you cannot get legal work in Korea or Taiwan.
You can get illegal work in Taiwan working in buxibans.

I'll let Glenski chime in about Japan.

So to answer some of your specific questions:

CELTA is a brand name (Cambridge) of TEFL course. There are lots of other brands out there as well. The thing to look for is 120 hours with 6 hours of observed practicum with real students.

If you add the home country teacher certification to your list of credentials you open up far many more doors and much better jobs; proper, internationally accredited schools (at the top of the heap) followed by bilingual schools, immersion schools, English program schools, and government/public schools across all of Asia.

.
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Quagles



Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, thanks for the quick reply!

Quote:
You're probably a pretty good example of why EFL opportunities range from few to none at all in Norway!

I really don't know about your chances in Asia, but I know native English speakers are still sought after. I don't think that eliminates you totally, though whether you'd get the same pay and conditions as a native speaker, if you find work, is unclear to me. It may come down to what passport you hold and where you did your degree(s).


Unfortunately I did my degree in Norway, and my passport is also from there as well. The only maybe small advantage I have is that I'm white (I've heard unfortunate rumors about racism, especially in Asia.)

Quote:
If I were you, I'd consider getting that Celta or Trinity qualification (insignificant difference in terms of course content and international value) sooner than you've currently planned (holiday break maybe in the UK?). If you do so, you'd be able to look for work in the summer language schools in the UK for the summer of 2014. Having experience living and teaching English in an English speaking country (hopefully with good references) should help, although it will be short. I worked with a couple of Polish and Lithuanian teachers of English there. They were experienced, but it is possible to do this. It's the best time because there's a lot of work and not always enough teachers. Often you can get accommodation with work.


I wish I could take it earlier, but as it stands it seems like an unlikely scenario. The last year of my degree will be spent in Japan, and ill be traveling over this spring for two semesters, which won't leave me the time to do it until 2014. I'd be coming home around february 2014, which seems to make it somewhat of an unlikely scenario. Otherwise I'd of course absolutely love to do it.

Quote:
If it won't delay your plans too much, I'd definitely try to get the two extra classes done before you head off. Can you postpone the additional year at the end of your degree and do this if/when you return to Norway? I suggest you find out if you can and how long you'd have before you'd have to be back and enrolled. It would be a very good option to have, especially if you eventually want to live in Norway permanently


It is possible, but I'm not sure whether its actually worth getting the two extra classes to get the degree, as I don't think its gonna make a difference, and will only make me accumulate more debt. The additional year at the end of my degree can be taken at anytime, and unlike most courses here in Norway, you can apply for them both for the spring and autumn semester. So I can pretty much take it whenever I want. My idea was first to test the waters, to see if I actually enjoyed teaching in a classroom environment or not. Basically, I can come back in five years, and the program will still be available.

Quote:
Your writing is pretty good.

Thanks for the compliments, but of course I still have a long way to go until I'm satisfied. I feel that when I language exchange with Japanese and Chinese for improving my own Japanese and Chinese, it also helps me a lot understanding English better and better for each day. Seeing as I have to try and explain why everything is the way it is.

Quote:
You CAN get work in Thailand. At the entry level the salary is about 1/2 what it is in Korea but the cost of living is also much less so you can live comfortably. 30k-35k THB is the usual starting salary for a Caucasian teacher.

You probably won't start saving much before you get settled and established.

If you are a decent teacher then potential earnings in the 60k+ THB/month range are obtainable (usually by taking on extra work)


Yeah, I heard about the low salaries in Thailand, and the cost of livings as well. I know the wages aren't the most impressive, and absolutely nothing compared to what I could get in my home country, even without proper education. But as long as I can live comfortably while I'm there, I'm honestly OK. I heard Vietnam is a bit better when it comes to wages, but it isn't as tempting. The first years is mainly meant for getting experience teaching, and see if I enjoy what I'm getting into or not. If I see that I enjoy it, I'd likely want to try in what ways I can to maximize my profits by further education and so on.

Quote:

The requirements are:
degree,
transcripts,
police background check,
TOEIC score above a 600 level (IELTS, TOEFL, etc are also accepted).

Ah thanks for that, I still haven't done any of those tests that you mentioned but as far as I know, these can be taken in Norway easily as well several times a year. Possibly I can also take it in Japan, but I won't really have much of preparation then seeing as I'm there to study Japanese.

Quote:
You can get work in China (similar requirements- sort of the "wild-west" of the EFL world at the moment), Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam.

You are correct that you cannot get legal work in Korea or Taiwan.
You can get illegal work in Taiwan working in buxibans.

I'll let Glenski chime in about Japan.

Thats good to hear, unfortunately I know very little about Cambodia, Laos or Vietnam, but who knows, it might be interesting alternatives.

Unfortunately illegal work might not be the most tempting that I would like to get myself into, oh well it can't be helped. I guess ill have to be satisified just traveling there sometime in my life.

I know that Japan is competitive but I also do know that it actually is possible, as I have a friend who did it for an extended period. Unfortunately I believe he might have told a little lie when it comes to one of his family members saying that one of his parents were born and raised in America, and raised him billingually. He's also studying at graduate school in Japan at this moment, a program related to teaching English, unfortunately I forgot the name of the program.

Quote:
CELTA is a brand name (Cambridge) of TEFL course. There are lots of other brands out there as well. The thing to look for is 120 hours with 6 hours of observed practicum with real students.

If you add the home country teacher certification to your list of credentials you open up far many more doors and much better jobs; proper, internationally accredited schools (at the top of the heap) followed by bilingual schools, immersion schools, English program schools, and government/public schools across all of Asia.


Alright thats good to hear, I've seen a lot of these programs advertised around, I guess its just up to me to find the right one when the time comes around.

Also good to hear that if I actually do get my home country teacher certification, things might open up a bit more. Unfortunately since I have never teached in a professional setting, I can't say for sure if its right or not for me, but this is at least something I really want to try.

Is there also any recommended literature toprepare myself before the TEFL course, and before jumping into teaching? I know teaching in a real situation will obviously be different, but I wish to be as prepared as I can.
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I wish I could take it [TEFL course] earlier, but as it stands it seems like an unlikely scenario. The last year of my degree will be spent in Japan, and ill be traveling over this spring for two semesters, which won't leave me the time to do it until 2014. I'd be coming home around february 2014, which seems to make it somewhat of an unlikely scenario. Otherwise I'd of course absolutely love to do it.

It would be better to do a TEFL course as close as possible to the time you want to begin teaching. You could still do so if you found a course in April or May 2014, but it would be cutting it a bit fine before the UK summer schools if that's what you want to try for. Youd have to plan the dates and organise a course before you went to Japan. As a non native speaker of any language I wanted to teach, Id go for the most instantly and internationally recognised teaching certificates I could do in that language, and generally speaking, those are Celta and Trinity for English. They are fairly expensive, but Id say theyre worth the expense for a non native language teacher. It's up to you. There are certainly other courses, but you'll have to check they are reputable.

It looks like you could get work directly in some parts of Asia if you wanted. Personally, Id still aim for some experience in an English speaking country first, if possible, as mentioned earlier. Students sometimes want to know about various English speaking countries over and above the actual language. While a short period is not the same as really living somewhere, in my opinion its better than nothing. But youve possibly already travelled a bit.

It'd be good to get specific advice about Japan and you could post directly in the Japan forum below for that. As you're going there to study, I guess youll have a bit of time to scout out some work possibilities. It might be better to wait and see how that works out first before committing yourself to a TEFL course elsewhere, but check with the Japan posters.

Re: preparation for any TEFL course (a good idea), there are quite a few related threads:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=99042
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=96438

Non native speaker teachers:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=98050&highlight=non+native+speakers
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your friend who lied ran a risk. Don't do that, ok?

Norwegians will need to prove to immigration that 12 years of their entire education was in English, or they will not qualify for the instructor visa (to work as an ALT). Couldn't tell you about the humanities specialist visa, but it may be similar.

You could be eligible if you get 3 years of work experience under your belt first. Maybe. Not sure about the way immigration would treat not being from a native English speaking country.

Four Finns and no Swedes or Norwegians or Danes got on the JET programme in 2012, so it'll be tough with them, too. http://www.jetprogramme.org/e/introduction/statistics.html No working holiday visa yet for Norwegians, just for Danes. http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/w_holiday/index.html

You could marry a Japanese and get a spouse visa, which permits you to work anywhere, or you could marry a fellow foreigner who has a visa, so you could get a dependent visa and work PT. In both cases, the employer would still have to deem your abilities suitable enough.

Cultural activities visa would permit PT work, but you have to show an interest and activity in the cultural thing first, not just start learning swordmaking, pottery, ikebana, etc. only to get the visa.

Japan won't be easy.
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Nkengaola



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Wanzhou, Chongqing

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could probably get a job in China teaching English at one of the private language schools, but only in the smaller towns/cities. The private school I work for has had non-native English speakers teaching (although there are none now), so it IS possible.
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coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1837

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, China is a good bet. I know Russian teachers of English who teach there.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12373
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Swedish colleague at www.kfupm.edu.sa
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Quagles



Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

artemisia wrote:
Quote:
I wish I could take it [TEFL course] earlier, but as it stands it seems like an unlikely scenario. The last year of my degree will be spent in Japan, and ill be traveling over this spring for two semesters, which won't leave me the time to do it until 2014. I'd be coming home around february 2014, which seems to make it somewhat of an unlikely scenario. Otherwise I'd of course absolutely love to do it.

It would be better to do a TEFL course as close as possible to the time you want to begin teaching. You could still do so if you found a course in April or May 2014, but it would be cutting it a bit fine before the UK summer schools if that's what you want to try for. Youd have to plan the dates and organise a course before you went to Japan. As a non native speaker of any language I wanted to teach, Id go for the most instantly and internationally recognised teaching certificates I could do in that language, and generally speaking, those are Celta and Trinity for English. They are fairly expensive, but Id say theyre worth the expense for a non native language teacher. It's up to you. There are certainly other courses, but you'll have to check they are reputable.

It looks like you could get work directly in some parts of Asia if you wanted. Personally, Id still aim for some experience in an English speaking country first, if possible, as mentioned earlier. Students sometimes want to know about various English speaking countries over and above the actual language. While a short period is not the same as really living somewhere, in my opinion its better than nothing. But youve possibly already travelled a bit.

It'd be good to get specific advice about Japan and you could post directly in the Japan forum below for that. As you're going there to study, I guess youll have a bit of time to scout out some work possibilities. It might be better to wait and see how that works out first before committing yourself to a TEFL course elsewhere, but check with the Japan posters.

Re: preparation for any TEFL course (a good idea), there are quite a few related threads:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=99042
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=96438

Non native speaker teachers:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=98050&highlight=non+native+speakers


Thanks for all your input and links, ill be sure to read them carefully. Ill look into the possibility of teaching an English speaking country at first if possible, or take the CELTA/etc over there. Luckily though, I have been many times to England. Seems like an incredible place to spend an extended period of time, especially Scotland is incredibly beautiful.

Yeah, I hope that my time in Japan can also be used to get contacts. This is why I'm sort of regreting my choice of where I decided to study. I imagine that it would probably have been a lot easier if I instead went for the less recognized University. At least one of the Universities, were in a much smaller city, with a very small foreign population, I'm sure it might have been easier to start making contacts in such a place. Unfortunately, whats done is done!

Quote:
Your friend who lied ran a risk. Don't do that, ok?

Norwegians will need to prove to immigration that 12 years of their entire education was in English, or they will not qualify for the instructor visa (to work as an ALT). Couldn't tell you about the humanities specialist visa, but it may be similar.

You could be eligible if you get 3 years of work experience under your belt first. Maybe. Not sure about the way immigration would treat not being from a native English speaking country.

Four Finns and no Swedes or Norwegians or Danes got on the JET programme in 2012, so it'll be tough with them, too. http://www.jetprogramme.org/e/introduction/statistics.html No working holiday visa yet for Norwegians, just for Danes. http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/w_holiday/index.html

You could marry a Japanese and get a spouse visa, which permits you to work anywhere, or you could marry a fellow foreigner who has a visa, so you could get a dependent visa and work PT. In both cases, the employer would still have to deem your abilities suitable enough.

Cultural activities visa would permit PT work, but you have to show an interest and activity in the cultural thing first, not just start learning swordmaking, pottery, ikebana, etc. only to get the visa.

Japan won't be easy.


Sorry, should have elaborated on that a bit better. Norway actually do NOT have a working visa at the current moment. Luckily a deal was made last week that from 2013 and onwards, Norwegians between the age of 18 and 30 can obtain a working visa to Japan.

So I figured, maybe with enough experience, just maybe there would be a slim chance I could get a chance at teaching in Japan for a while as well through the working visa. Difficult, but there might be some small hope.

Quote:
You could probably get a job in China teaching English at one of the private language schools, but only in the smaller towns/cities. The private school I work for has had non-native English speakers teaching (although there are none now), so it IS possible.

As long as they speak mandarin, and the pay isn't at the lower end I would not mind. Even some of the smaller cities will probably be big compared to Norwegian cities.

Quote:
Yes, China is a good bet. I know Russian teachers of English who teach there.

Thats great to hear, thats what ill be aiming for then. Its where I wanted to go the most other than Japan.

Quote:
I had a Swedish colleague at www.kfupm.edu.sa

Really? Hmm, at least it gives me a good indication that the possibility is there when I hear so many non-natives get the opportunity to teach. Suddenly I'm getting a bit more optimistic.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quagles wrote:
Sorry, should have elaborated on that a bit better. Norway actually do NOT have a working visa at the current moment.
Yes, I know. That's what I wrote.

Quote:
Luckily a deal was made last week that from 2013 and onwards, Norwegians between the age of 18 and 30 can obtain a working visa to Japan.
As long as you meet visa requirements, you get a work visa right now, today. Did you mean (and the age limits you wrote would suggest) that Norway and Japan are soon to have a mutual working holiday visa agreement? Let's not get confused with important terminology here.

Either way, could you please provide a link to your source?

Quote:
So I figured, maybe with enough experience, just maybe there would be a slim chance I could get a chance at teaching in Japan for a while as well through the working visa. Difficult, but there might be some small hope.
IMO, so very slim that you should rethink Japan. Please reread my post to understand why.
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Quagles



Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
Quagles wrote:
Sorry, should have elaborated on that a bit better. Norway actually do NOT have a working visa at the current moment.
Yes, I know. That's what I wrote.

Quote:
Luckily a deal was made last week that from 2013 and onwards, Norwegians between the age of 18 and 30 can obtain a working visa to Japan.
As long as you meet visa requirements, you get a work visa right now, today. Did you mean (and the age limits you wrote would suggest) that Norway and Japan are soon to have a mutual working holiday visa agreement? Let's not get confused with important terminology here.

Either way, could you please provide a link to your source?

Quote:
So I figured, maybe with enough experience, just maybe there would be a slim chance I could get a chance at teaching in Japan for a while as well through the working visa. Difficult, but there might be some small hope.
IMO, so very slim that you should rethink Japan. Please reread my post to understand why.



http://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/press/release/24/11/1102_04.html

Unfortunately this link is only written in Japanese, but since you live in Japan, I assume you can read it. If not, I will translate it. The same version, translated into Norwegian is written on the Japanese embassy in Norways webpage. Sorry about not making that clear.
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this. A programme is being set up between Norway and Japan. However, its not clear if this includes teaching (or education generally) as a sector. That information is probably in the link you've provided, Quagles.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20121106b1.html
Japan and Norway will jointly launch a "working holiday" program next year aimed at enhancing exchanges between young adults by issuing special visas, their leaders said.

I believe Norway is a participating country in the Jet programme but perhaps it's alternate years? Not all countries participate every year. Of course that doesn't mean that it's at all easy to get accepted; it just might still be within the realms of what's possible, however small your chances really are.

Anyway, China sounds viable. Good luck, Quagles!
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sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 516

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could be wrong, but, don't most of the teachers who aren't native speakers and work in foreign countries have degrees in English. I've known quite a few Poles who have taught English abroad but most had Master's degrees in English philology. One lady didn't have a degree but passed the CPE exam and had a CELTA. I really think that you should be focusing on getting the credentials more than figuring out which country you could slip into. You should have a degree in the language you are trying to teach anyway. Native speakers probably should too Smile
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coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1837

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following on the point about the degree in English, it is probably well worth your while doing those extra modules it they give you such a degree.
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