Job Discussion Forums

[mark_in_saigon]

Wonder if you could give some detail on your CELTA course experience? It would be interesting to know what country you took it in, who the provider was, and if your understanding was this was their general process or a one off event.

With reference to your reluctance to work for a CELTA provider, I would posit that any of the bigger and higher paying organizations are more likely to include a lot more oversight. If the management is made up of people who just worked their way into the jobs due to longevity instead of qualifications (or for other non performance related reasons), then your experience could naturally be less positive. Another problem, many of our guys tend to take on the characteristics of the host nation over time, which is not always the most enlightened approach. So, not sure that avoiding a CELTA provider would matter that much anyway.

All the folks coming over should know that the average time spent on any one job is rather short. Don't get your hopes up too high on a particular employer, it is better to be ready to drop off and try again. Should take several tries to find the right fit for you, and the good thing is this really increases your knowledge of the landscape. No substitute for experience here.

[VietCanada]

I'd be careful about jumping in with ILA, Apollo and the CELTA program.

CELTA, DELTA, TESOL and TEFL are necessary to get a work permit here and some doors will be closed if you don't have them but as I meet more and more 'graduates' of these schools. First off management I meet tell me that they have so many teachers that there are not enough hours. Secondly the teachers I meet tell me of late paycheques and taxes. Those taxes reduce their gross pay to about Cleverlearn levels when they teach in-house and about the same as most other better paying language mills when working off campus. You will need a second job.

General comments for any job seeker:

Personally I couldn't justify paying what they want for their cert. for that deal. Paying for the cert. is no guarantee of achieving it or even getting employment from those schools if you pass.

Seeing a solution in hopping on a plane to go get a cert. at those schools is folly. Perhaps more so than simply arriving and hitting the pavement. What countries accept you now for what you have now. Take a TEFL or something equivalent in your home country if you want it. Its cheaper, you'll have more support and resources, you'll quickly find out if you are a fit for the job. Without the added cost of the course and the airplane tickets.

If you are looking for a place to hop on a plane and just start working then China and Taiwan may be the best bets at this time. Korea gives you the visa and the job, the ticket there, accommodation and even a supporting peer group before you even get on the plane. But it does take time depending on documentation you need.

Take a breath and accept that you are easily a month or so away from starting employment. Another month before your first pay. EFL is not a quick fix for unemployment in the West. The last comments are for any reader thinking of teaching abroad not the OP.

[kurtz]

^ Is English your first or second language?

[TRH]

[Englishpal]

English is this persons first language and he also already has the CELTA.

[Englishpal]

I would prefer a university job over a private school but have not seen those type of positions advertised. I have seen posts for private schools which is why I entertained the thought of working at ILA, Apollo, etc. Thanks for the thoughts.

[mark_in_saigon]

I have always felt that when a person considers moving here, he really should examine his goals. I am not an expert on ESL worldwide, maybe not even for VN, but it is pretty clear to me that one should not come to teach English in VN because this is the best location for it in terms of quality of jobs or the pay. So I think the most intelligent reasons for coming here would be related to factors other than teaching, and teaching is what enables you to live here. I think that a decade ago (or so) the argument could be made that the VN students were so receptive, polite and motivated that those factors could be a primary reason for coming. As the culture rapidly westernizes (or generally degrades, whatever it seems to be doing) I think that argument does not hold as much water. People who come over with these great altruistic dreams are likely to be shocked and disappointed. People who come over to rake in a bunch of money can do better elsewhere. People who want a pure native culture with an interesting landscape and friendly people are going to be somewhat disappointed, although there is the occasional location that is the exception. Most everywhere we teach gets enough westerners coming through to change the way the natives relate to us, and so the National Geographic experience is not there for us, at least not where we usually live and work.

As far as being cynical, I would just say that most any westerner who can stomach living here has to be quite an optimist and a trooper. It is a difficult place to live after growing up in the west. The cynicism you see here is actually just a reflection of the reality. Just yesterday my most important VN contact told me of a conversation with one of her fellow VN, they were discussing another mindless traffic regulation that the VN are considering putting down on the system. The comment was something like, you have the chance to leave this country, you should. Many of the most educated VN feel this way. They love their people and their country, but they do not love the way it actually is at this time. If it is hard for them to take, imagine what it is like for a westerner who has grown up in the ease of modernity, relative wealth, cleanliness and organization. Despite what you may read on this site, or others, you may find your true experience to be even worse than you imagined if you indeed come over. The normal reaction is to first be in awe of things, to see how amazing it is for all the motos to haul ass all over the sidewalks and whatnot without killing each other, and to remark, oh, what an amazing country. Yeah, it is. But when you first start out with a mickey mouse job here and another one on the other side of town, and you are part OF that mess, then it gets a little tedious.

[Tigerstyleone]

Paradise. Paradise. $20 an hour, 8 hours a day. Treated like a god.
Paradise. Paradise.

[VietCanada]

[Mattingly]

[kurtz]

[TheRedDeluge]

[quote="VietCanada"]CELTA, DELTA, TESOL and TEFL are necessary to get a work permit here and some doors will be closed if you don't have them but as I meet more and more 'graduates' of these schools. First off management I meet tell me that they have so many teachers that there are not enough hours. Secondly the teachers I meet tell me of late paycheques and taxes. Those taxes reduce their gross pay to about Cleverlearn levels when they teach in-house and about the same as most other better paying language mills when working off campus. You will need a second job.



Cleverlearn changed its name. Does it still have a bad reputation? Just curious since I think all the other posts about this are older. I would be interested in hearing a more recent opinion.

[Mattingly]