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Newbie advice on finding the first job
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Englishpal



Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Newbie advice on finding the first job Reply with quote

I was hoping that someone might be able to give some advice on finding my first job. I am 36, have a Bachelors (since Aug.) and just completed the CELTA. I do not know how to acquire a decent job (I know, decent is subjective). Should I try a recruiter?
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VietCanada



Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know nothing about recruiters here in Vietnam.

Dress for the job.
Have copies of all documents.
Hit the pavement.
Ask everyone you meet.
Continue this even after you have that job.
Don't be fussy, its easier to get a job when you have one.
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Jbhughes



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 254

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regards to the recruiter, no never. If you look at the more general advice from posters like ttompatz, they recommend not using a recruiter and in the event of using one, never paying for one. I think this advice holds for VN.

I find VNese to live very much 'in the here and now', and deal with tangible, face-to-face interactions better. That or maybe they just can't understand emails, who knows! Scrub yourself up and physically go to the schools, if they won't talk to you there and then, in theory you should be able to arrange meeting the relevant person on another day. This may take a couple of attempts and probably will require you getting their number and calling them to make sure they will be there when they said they will.

If it starts to sound too good to be true, it probably is. If something starts to sound a bit fishy, it probably is.

Good luck!


The other day I spoke to someone who 'only' paid a few several thousand to someone for finding them a house to rent. Rolling Eyes
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Englishpal



Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice. I am in the US right now, so unfortunately it would be difficult to apply in person. I was hoping that I might be able to email resumes and such to schools and then interview via Skype. I have been trying to get a job in China but there is some new regulation about 2 years experience that I think is possibly throwing a kink into my plans. I started with China cause of previous travel experiences, but am open to Vietnam, Taiwan and South Korea. Just am not certain how to get hired.
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VietCanada



Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably not relevant but my VN sister in law paid a man to find her a job. When she showed up ready to work there was no job.

I would never pay for a recruiter or headhunter for this job level. Use the net to identify some targets. Sometimes schools happen in clusters so look around the area a bit. Ask each school about other schools in the area.

Possible scams- ask you to a demo off site (for free) in order to secure a contract which they might then interview you for the position. Demo is actually a fill in for a missing or ill teacher. Nobody actually watches you teach or watches only briefly with no note taking.
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 793

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would look on the China board and post there to see how serious this enforcement thing is. In Asia, rules do not have the same meaning as they do back home. If you really wanted China for some reason, I would not change my plans just because you heard something about a new rule. However, if this is a new, across the board, ironclad enforcement, it should be quite easy to know this. If that was the case, expats in all the other neighboring countries would probably be hearing about it, as it would have a regional impact on all of us. All these guys planning on China would be looking here and a few other places, and I do not think that is the case.

The other thing, at least in Asia, you really cannot tell much about things til you get here. While there is some excellent info on this site, how it would specifically relate to your job search, employment and life here is dependent on a lot of details. Most posters are reluctant to divulge all those details, so the advice they get is quite generalized. Still, reading here in depth can answer a lot of questions. You certainly are employable here, but that is not saying much, it is amazing the variety of folks we have teaching English here, and the lack of qualifications is equally amazing in some cases. You can try getting a promise from abroad, but don't bet your life on it if you do get one, this whole deal over here is pot luck. I would not recommend VN to anyone unless that person had some specific reason for wanting to work and live here, and I don't think the reason should be the great money over here.
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Englishpal



Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have noticed that people in here can be a little cynical and appreciate the candid reply delivered in a cordial fashion.
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Jbhughes



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 254

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In your case, I would consider anything you can get done before coming out here not much more than a pre-cursor to your job search when you arrive. There would be no harm whatsoever emailing and chasing up your applications, offering skype contact etc, but as mark has already eluded to, nothing is real until you've got a timesheet, you're in the classroom or best yet - you've got your pay check!

Even better - if a company will pay for some part of your relocation (probably at best the visa, or a pick up from the airport and first few nights in a hotel), then there's no harm in taking up their offer. Still be prepared for alternatives on arrival.

When you visit a potential employee who've already received your CV via email, remember to bring along a hard copy too - chances are in the time between applying and home and getting here, it's gone awry or they'll've forgotten about you.

If you want to call that cynicism, fine. I recently moved cities in VN and spend a great deal of time carefully crafting bespoke CVs and cover letters and mounting up an email trail before taking the plunge and moving. Most of what I'd done before had been a waste of time in comparison to the effect of a shirt, a lack of flip-flops and the turn of potential students heads when I wandered through various doors (this doesn't mean I'm a head-turner, mind you!).

I'll admit I'm a bit jaded though - what is it about VN that catches your eye?
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Englishpal



Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am interested in the cultural experience and wanting to take a break from the American culture. I sense that I would be able to make enough to live comfortably in some Asian countries, and would like to try them out.
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kurtz



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 403
Location: Off the beaten path

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Englishpal wrote:
I am interested in the cultural experience and wanting to take a break from the American culture. I sense that I would be able to make enough to live comfortably in some Asian countries, and would like to try them out.


Please, lower your expectations. Here in Hanoi, anyone who can possibly afford an Apple i-phone will have one; along with their i-pad. In just about any coffee shop you'll see locals playing with their toys. I've found the consumerism on par with the worst consumers from the West.

Go to any temple and you'll see Vietnamese praying for luck, or shall we say, lucky money.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy myself in this place a lot but don't fool yourself into thinking it's some escape from the US.

You will probably find yourself able to live quite comfortably here, but saving any form of decent cash is another matter.
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Englishpal



Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, thanks for the thoughts. Aside from moving to Vietnam and hitting the pavement, how do I find schools to approach?
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kurtz



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 403
Location: Off the beaten path

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Englishpal wrote:
Ok, thanks for the thoughts. Aside from moving to Vietnam and hitting the pavement, how do I find schools to approach?


Email ILA, Apollo, LLV for starters. Don't be one of the sad cases hanging around bia hois trying to etch out a living. Come with money so you can pick and choose. ONLY work for a place that gives you a WP and visa. But that's just me; I'm sure some others with chime in with alternative advice but whatever.
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Englishpal



Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had thought about one of those places specifically. I was a little concerned about how these schools related to their teachers. Are they militant about following CELTA methodology? I just finished the CELTA, and while I enjoyed the students found the program quite uncomfortable. Maybe teaching itself using the method is different than taking the course. Scared that my employer at such a place will be like an examiner, but maybe that is not the case.
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kurtz



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 403
Location: Off the beaten path

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've worked for two of them and can safely say they are not militant about teaching the CELTA way. As long as you can build rapport, show respect to the students by learning their names and show some kind of logic in your teaching plan, you'll be fine. You can find work on the side if those schools don't provide enough hours.
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Englishpal



Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, that is encouraging. I will send emails today. Thanks
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