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typical starting salaries in Taiwan by position
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacher4life wrote:
Dig deeper. Plenty of unis offering 70,000-75,000 with only a Masters. Those jobs are there, but they don't advertise on tealit or here.


I think the onus is now on you to "dig deeper" and come up with examples of universities that pay $NT75K for a teacher with no more than a Masters.
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creztor



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 476

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, 70k is in fact not the base pay. How can it be the base and starting pay if they are working extra hours? This is the same stuff you see being posted by people claiming they get 1k an hour doing privates. The devil is in the details and they so conveniently always leave out the details. Thank you for confirming what I suspected.
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Solar Strength



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 560
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

creztor wrote:
So, 70k is in fact not the base pay. How can it be the base and starting pay if they are working extra hours? This is the same stuff you see being posted by people claiming they get 1k an hour doing privates. The devil is in the details and they so conveniently always leave out the details. Thank you for confirming what I suspected.


Creztor,

Right. And Taiwanese universities are transparent in what the salary ranges are for teachers at the different academic ranks. Salary information for Taiwanese universities is no secret and there is no "digging" required for one to get this information.

Just out of curiosity, I had a look at the National Taiwan University website to see what jobs they had posted. Here is a faculty job posting at NTU in the Department of Foreign Languages & Literature:

Quote:
National Taiwan University
Department of Foreign Language & Literature


Position: The Graduate Program in Translation and Interpretation (GPTI) at National Taiwan University announces 1 full-time faculty position in Chinese-English Interpreting (Application Deadline: January 21, 2013)

Salary and Rank: Salaries range from approximately NT $69,000 for Assistant Professor to NT $90,000 full Professor per month.


Remember, a Ph.D is required to even qualify for the rank of Assistant Professor and above in Taiwan.

There's no way anyone with a master's degree at the Lecturer level will be earning the above salaries as base pay. Even with an extra class or two of overtime it wouldn't come close to the lower figure quoted above. I believe the overtime rate for extra classes is still around ~ NT $550 an hour at most universities.

Also, now that I think about it, the NT $55,000 quoted earlier as base salary for Lecturer is a bit high. I think my base salary was around NT $48,000 and then with a class or two of overtime each semester, I was earning a little under NT $55,000 a month, probably in the NT $53,000 - NT $54,000 range. And that's as a Lecturer.

Compared with friends who have similar qualifications teaching in Korea, Japan and the Middle East, Taiwanese University salaries are shockingly low. Even with the lower cost of living, although I lived in Taipei which wasn't all that cheap. These teachers are saving more per-month than what I was even earning in a month teaching at a university in Taiwan.

And yet, even though they offer the lowest salaries, Taiwan universities are even more demanding of applicants in that they ask for doctorates and publications and also do not recognize master's degrees obtained through distance study. It's kind of a weird, screwed up deal as far as university teaching goes in Taiwan. I don't think I'd ever recommend teaching in Taiwan at the university level.


Last edited by Solar Strength on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solar Strength wrote:
Compared with friends who have similar qualifications teaching in Korea, Japan and the Middle East, Taiwanese University salaries are shockingly low. Even with the lower cost of living, although I lived in Taipei which wasn't all that cheap. These teachers are saving more per-month than what I was even earning in a month teaching at a university in Taiwan.

And yet, even though they offer the lowest salaries, Taiwan universities are even more demanding of applicants in that they ask for doctorates and publications and also do not recognize master's degrees obtained through distance study. It's kind of a weird, screwed up deal as far as university teaching goes in Taiwan. I don't think I'd ever recommend teaching in Taiwan at the university level.


I couldn't have said this better myself. Teaching English at a Taiwanese university is a dead-end job in terms of pay, promotion and job satisfaction. I leads no where, except to the eventual realisation that you've wasted your career.

BTW, there are lots of threads here about the shockingly low salaries. This one is enlightening:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=63035&highlight=


Last edited by romanworld on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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creztor



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 476

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is he won't be returning to this thread.
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact of the matter is that university gigs, because of the dreadful salaries, will only be 'attractive' to locals who have no other choice. However, as noted above, there are few jobs available in the tertiary sector now because of falling birth rates and the consequent lack of students, which means even locals are going to have to compete for these shitty positions tooth and claw. It's a depressing scenario not just for those looking for a job in a university, but also for those currently working in one. Teachers, especially foreigners, who are nearing the end of their careers must be concerned about whether they'll receive their golden handshake or not. The MOE and the universities are constantly shifting the goalposts and there is evidence that money is tight. The Taipei City government is currently in debt to the tune of NT$882.2 billion (US$30.27 billion), while "The Council of Labor Affairs recently reported that at the present rate, the labor insurance system might go bankrupt in 2027." I'm thankful I got out when I did. I'd hate to be there now.

http://focustaiwan.tw/ShowNews/WebNews_Detail.aspx?Type=aALL&ID=201211220035

http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=2050180
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Solar Strength



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 560
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

romanworld wrote:
I'm thankful I got out when I did. I'd hate to be there now.


That's exactly how I feel, also. I believe I earned about US $19,000 my first year as a Lecturer. That was before tax, not take home salary.

Her's another university teaching position, although it's a contract / staff / special project type job that was recently announced for the College of Management at National Dong Hwa University:

Quote:
National Dong Hwa University: Full-time Contract Teacher

Job description:
Full-time contract teachers are required to teach 16 hours per week and are expected to organize additional English activities throughout the semester. Contracts are renewed annually based on performance.

Salary:
Starting salary is NTD $47,700 per month (before tax). *12% of each month’s salary is deposited into the employee’s pension program (6% of the contribution is made by the employee, and 6% is from the employer).


That's before tax! Shocked

People need to also remember that newbies pay 20% income tax for the first 6 months, although they'd get a lot of that back if they ended up staying. So after paying roughly NT $15,000 in taxes and various deductions, that's roughly NT $33,000 remaining for take-home income. That's only about US $1,100 a month! I'm sitting here laughing as I type this last part because it's just ridiculous how low university salaries are.
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3824
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

romanworld wrote:
Solar Strength wrote:
Compared with friends who have similar qualifications teaching in Korea, Japan and the Middle East, Taiwanese University salaries are shockingly low. Even with the lower cost of living, although I lived in Taipei which wasn't all that cheap. These teachers are saving more per-month than what I was even earning in a month teaching at a university in Taiwan.

And yet, even though they offer the lowest salaries, Taiwan universities are even more demanding of applicants in that they ask for doctorates and publications and also do not recognize master's degrees obtained through distance study. It's kind of a weird, screwed up deal as far as university teaching goes in Taiwan. I don't think I'd ever recommend teaching in Taiwan at the university level.


I couldn't have said this better myself. Teaching English at a Taiwanese university is a dead-end job in terms of pay, promotion and job satisfaction. I leads no where, except to the eventual realisation that you've wasted your career.

BTW, there are lots of threads here about the shockingly low salaries. This one is enlightening:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=63035&highlight=


I can say that I aam glad that I got out of Taiwan before it was too late.

However Taiwan can be fun if you are in your twenties and looking to have some fun. Taiwan is a much better place to live than South Korea.
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teacher4life



Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To those folks who are passively reading this, the lesson here is to get your information from sources other than here! These guys are just dead wrong, there are no two ways about it!

They are subtly being shown the exit by Taiwan, probably because they don't have proper teaching ability, they have far too much entitlement mentality, tatoos on their foreheads, speak only rudimentary Chinese in spote of living here for 5+ years, etc.

If you don't have those problems, you WILL be encouraged to stick around and you will be compensated properly. I will say it again, gone are the days when these idiots are the only game in town. The quality of foreign instructors in Taiwan is going up while the creztors are being shown the exits.
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Solar Strength



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 560
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacher4life wrote:
To those folks who are passively reading this, the lesson here is to get your information from sources other than here! These guys are just dead wrong, there are no two ways about it!


I've posted the salary ranges for each academic rank as they appeared in recent job announcements that have been advertised on several university websites. There's nothing "dead wrong" about it!

I think you're just having a bit of fun with this now. But you're right, I'm sure readers here will com to their own conclusions based on the information presented in the thread.

Again, the salaries for university teachers in Taiwan are regulated by the MoE, and are roughly as follows:

    NT $55, 000 - Lecturer

    NT $68, 000 - Assistant Professor

    NT $78, 000 - Associate Professor

    NT $90, 000 - Professor

I might just keep posting the salary details for any other university positions that I see advertised. Readers will find that the salaries for Instructor positions will fall slightly below the NT $50,000 mark or slightly above, but no where near the NT $70,000 you claimed in your earlier posts.
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Solar Strength



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 560
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another Instructor position from a 2011 job posting I saved:

Quote:
National Taiwan University
Department of Foreign Languages and Literature
Job Announcement

Poster:Hsueh, Wen-lin ╱ News Date:2011-02-23

Minimum Qualifications:
native or native-level speaker with at least an MA in English, TESOL, or related fields plus two years of university teaching experience.

Teaching Load:
16 hours of basic language courses (Freshman English, Writing, Conversation, and Lab) per week. Additional teaching hours (up to 4 weekly) extra.

Salary and Rank:
starting monthly salary for MA degree holders is around NT $55,000; subject to 18% income tax for the first 6 paychecks.


Still, I'll keep my eyes open, though, for that NT $70,000 Instructor position!
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creztor



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 476

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The simple fact is even you said later on they were NOT the starting salaries and that lecturers had to work extra hours to earn that kind of pay. Furthermore, you say people need to check other "sources", but you FAIL to provide any source at all. Solar Strength has posted several pay scales, so you need to do the same to backup your claims, but what's the point? You already said the pay is not the starting rate, so it seems that you already contradict your original post.

Last edited by creztor on Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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teacher4life



Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hint for Solar Strength: Start by looking at the countryside!
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacher4life wrote:
To those folks who are passively reading this, the lesson here is to get your information from sources other than here! These guys are just dead wrong, there are no two ways about it!

They are subtly being shown the exit by Taiwan, probably because they don't have proper teaching ability . . .


On the contrary, good teachers left Taiwan long ago and continue to give it a wide berth because the salaries suck big time.

Quote:
The quality of foreign instructors in Taiwan is going up . . .


You seem to make a lot of value judgements. How for example do you explain the Taiwanese brain drain if the deal at Taiwanese universities is so good? Check this from Taiwan Today:

Taiwan’s brain drain is one of the most alarming threats to its sustainable development. While the government has announced plans to address the problem, the private sector also needs to shoulder its share of responsibility by creating a more attractive environment for high-caliber professionals.

In May Minister of Education Chiang Wei-ning pointed out a worrying observation from an earlier trip to the U.S. West Coast—compared to earlier periods, very few of the young faculty members at leading California universities are from Taiwan. The number of local students pursuing advanced studies at overseas institutions is also on the decline, he added. “This diminishing pool of foreign-trained academics and researchers bodes ill for the country’s future development.


The article continues:

Cyrus C.Y. Chu, minister of the National Science Council, also highlighted the gravity of the situation during a recent NSC advisory meeting. Along with other causes, he pointed out, “Taiwan’s low salaries are driving the most capable away from the island.” At the same time, the country has not been able to attract enough skilled workers from abroad. “Taiwan has become a net exporter of talent,” he said. Chu said one of the major reasons is Taiwan’s unfriendly environment for foreign professionals, including strict immigration laws that make hiring really top-notch specialists next to impossible. Of the 450,000 foreigners working in Taiwan during the past 10 years, over 400,000 were blue-collar laborers, while around 20,000 were English teachers, he added. “These are not the kinds of skilled workers who can help Taiwan innovate and thrive.”

The problem is so alarming that Shanmugarantnam Tharman, Singapore’s deputy prime minister and minister of finance, warned in April that the city state, which is also experiencing a loss of skilled people, risks becoming a “Taiwan story” if it closes its doors to foreign professionals. Tharman also believes Taiwan’s declining wages are a result of the country’s talent migration. To turn the situation around, Chiang said, the MOE is working on the country’s first white paper on talent cultivation, while the Cabinet is directing relevant agencies to step up implementation of talent development projects in sectors targeted for strategic promotion, with a focus on revision of immigration and labor regulations.


http://taiwantoday.tw/ct.asp?xItem=195866&CtNode=427
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creztor



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 476

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, I have to agree with romanworld. There is much better money to be made teaching outside of Taiwan, but that's not the point of your OP.

Plenty of sources with wages have been posted above, but the best you've managed to do is to say look in the "countryside" and don't look on tealit. Again, you contradict yourself by first stating the 70 - 75k is starting salary but then say it is starting salary plus extra hours.

Is it impossible to get a job with pay you mention? No, but it is definitely not the norm and for me this is the sticking point. Solar and others here have work or worked in universities, so they speak with firsthand knowledge. I know what MA holders get paid and I know what happens if you don't "upgrade" to a PhD. It is not doing anyone any good by stating salaries or wages for jobs that do not reflect the actual market conditions nor what will happen in the future to those positions. Do I think teaching at a university in Taiwan is a bad choice? No, but you definitely wouldn't do it for the money and the money is nothing like what you claim it to be, at least not the starting salaries.
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