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typical starting salaries in Taiwan by position
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Solar Strength



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 560
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re. University salaries, I accidently came across this tonight searching for something else education related on Google.

From Scott Sommers' Taiwan Blog:

Quote:
...entry-level salaries in Taiwan for Assistant Professors (not including New Year Bonus) begin around 64,000 TWD a month.


Link: Scott Sommers: International Comparison of Faculty Salaries
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solar Strength wrote:
Re. University salaries, I accidently came across this tonight searching for something else education related on Google.

From Scott Sommers' Taiwan Blog:

Quote:
...entry-level salaries in Taiwan for Assistant Professors (not including New Year Bonus) begin around 64,000 TWD a month.


Link: Scott Sommers: International Comparison of Faculty Salaries


That link you posted is dated 2009, so it's old and outdated. Scott Sommers used to have his own blog, but that dried up sometime ago. He used to work for a private university in Taipei called Ming Chuan University(MCU), which has an atrocious reputation. You can find more information about the shenanigans that are going on at MCU here:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=87949

Regarding salaries at Ming Chuan University, they are on par with MOE pay scales, but a figure of $NT54,000 would be closer to the truth, which is way below the $NT64,000 Mr Sommers quotes. There might be the chance of doing additional hours that pay around the $NT550 mark, but those hours are few and are dished out to favorite teachers, usually Taiwanese who are in with the admin. The salaries you quoted in an earlier post are approximately correct:

NT $55, 000 - Lecturer

NT $68, 000 - Assistant Professor

NT $78, 000 - Associate Professor

NT $90, 000 - Professor

I should add that foreign teachers who hold MA's would be employed as Lecturers, although they'd hold the title of Instructor. Back in the palmy days, it was enough to have an MA in any area, but now universities require an MA in an English-related field, while some insist on a Ph.d, research interest, and publications. This is rather bizarre really because you'll be teaching students who would struggle putting together a few sentences to make a salutation. In other words, you'd be far too qualified for the position and I might add far too underpaid.
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Solar Strength



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 560
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

romanworld wrote:
Solar Strength wrote:
Re. University salaries, I accidently came across this tonight searching for something else education related on Google.

From Scott Sommers' Taiwan Blog:

Quote:
...entry-level salaries in Taiwan for Assistant Professors (not including New Year Bonus) begin around 64,000 TWD a month.


Link: Scott Sommers: International Comparison of Faculty Salaries


That link you posted is dated 2009, so it's old and outdated. Scott Sommers used to have his own blog, but that dried up sometime ago. He used to work for a private university in Taipei called Ming Chuan University(MCU), which has an atrocious reputation. You can find more information about the shenanigans that are going on at MCU here:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=87949

Regarding salaries at Ming Chuan University, they are on par with MOE pay scales, but a figure of $NT54,000 would be closer to the truth, which is way below the $NT64,000 Mr Sommers quotes. There might be the chance of doing additional hours that pay around the $NT550 mark, but those hours are few and are dished out to favorite teachers, usually Taiwanese who are in with the admin. The salaries you quoted in an earlier post are approximately correct:

NT $55, 000 - Lecturer

NT $68, 000 - Assistant Professor

NT $78, 000 - Associate Professor

NT $90, 000 - Professor

I should add that foreign teachers who hold MA's would be employed as Lecturers, although they'd hold the title of Instructor. Back in the palmy days, it was enough to have an MA in any area, but now universities require an MA in an English-related field, while some insist on a Ph.d, research interest, and publications. This is rather bizarre really because you'll be teaching students who would struggle putting together a few sentences to make a salutation. In other words, you'd be far too qualified for the position and I might add far too underpaid.


Do you know Paul Hyde? I was surprised to read Sommers' comments on a former colleague at Ming Chuan University.

The link is old, but the 64,000 TWD for an Assistant Professor post is the norm, give or take a few thousand NT.

I turned down a job with Ming Chuan University and the watched as they had many people jump shit to other universities in Taiwan or leave Taiwan all together.

Sommers seems to have a love affair with MCU, however. Or had. Doesn't he still work there? Yeah, his blog has pretty much been abandoned.
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solar Strength wrote:
Do you know Paul Hyde? I was surprised to read Sommers' comments on a former colleague at Ming Chuan University.

The link is old, but the 64,000 TWD for an Assistant Professor post is the norm, give or take a few thousand NT.

I turned down a job with Ming Chuan University and the watched as they had many people jump shit to other universities in Taiwan or leave Taiwan all together.

Sommers seems to have a love affair with MCU, however. Or had. Doesn't he still work there? Yeah, his blog has pretty much been abandoned.


I don't know Paul personally, but I used to have friends who worked with him. I believe he was fired from MCU. Actually, I don't think he was the first to be fired. That school has always had a large turnover of staff I heard. I think you did the right thing to turn down that job. Like so many university gigs in Taiwan, it'll only take you up a dead end.
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dackinator



Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been following the topics on this board along with job listings, for a few months now. Am I right in thinking that the ELT market in Taiwan is pretty bad/low paid, especially compared to other nearby countries? I was really hoping to come teach somewhere like Tainan or Taichung but the impression I get is that I'd be better off going to Japan or even Hong Kong/the mainland. Are salaries really that bad compared to the cost of living on the island?
I have a few Taiwanese friends who said that 55-65k is a decent wage, but I get a different impression from this forum.
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dackinator wrote:
I've been following the topics on this board along with job listings, for a few months now. Am I right in thinking that the ELT market in Taiwan is pretty bad/low paid, especially compared to other nearby countries? I was really hoping to come teach somewhere like Tainan or Taichung but the impression I get is that I'd be better off going to Japan or even Hong Kong/the mainland. Are salaries really that bad compared to the cost of living on the island?
I have a few Taiwanese friends who said that 55-65k is a decent wage, but I get a different impression from this forum.


First of all, a salary of $NT55,000 would be considered good by local Taiwanese who are used to taking home a measly salary of less than $NT30,000. The fact that there are no unions to push for salary increases allied to the fact that Taiwanese bosses are renowned for their parsimony, means that Taiwanese workers continue to be underpaid and exploited.(Imagine the poor souls below them from SE Asia who man the factories every hour that God sends for pitiful wages.) A recent article in The Wall Street Journal for example cites "insufficient finances and unstable jobs as the primary reasons" why Taiwanese couples are shunning marriage and why there is a consequent decline in births:

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2012/08/22/bad-news-for-taiwan-in-battle-against-baby-blues/

However if you're a westerner, you'd never want to go native in Taiwan because the food sucks and is often unhygienic. This means you'll be shopping at the expensive western supermarkets and delis. You'd also want to rent a nice place, maybe in a place like Tienmu, and you'll find again that the fabled low cost of living is just that: A fable. Taiwan is a boring place compared to other countries in Asia and you'll find that you'll be making trips to bookshops and buying expensive books that you don't really need; you'll also be eating out at restaurants that are seriously overpriced; and if you have a Taiwanese girlfriend you'll often be expected to pay and this too will eat into your income. BOTTOM LINE: $NT55,000 won't go very far and you want be able to save anything and in the end you'll start asking yourself: Why on earth did I ever come here to teach English?
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teacher4life



Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

romanworld wrote:


However if you're a westerner, you'd never want to go native in Taiwan because the food sucks and is often unhygienic. This means you'll be shopping at the expensive western supermarkets and delis. You'd also want to rent a nice place, maybe in a place like Tienmu, and you'll find again that the fabled low cost of living is just that: A fable. Taiwan is a boring place compared to other countries in Asia and you'll find that you'll be making trips to bookshops and buying expensive books that you don't really need; you'll also be eating out at restaurants that are seriously overpriced; and if you have a Taiwanese girlfriend you'll often be expected to pay and this too will eat into your income. BOTTOM LINE: $NT55,000 won't go very far and you want be able to save anything and in the end you'll start asking yourself: Why on earth did I ever come here to teach English?


Oh my, your cluelessness seems to know no limits. Food is amazing here and housing is just fine. Taiwan is not at all a boring place unless you are stuck in the overrated Tainan.

If you are that unhappy, why don't you leave??? Of course you will take all your problems with you to the next place...
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacher4life wrote:
Oh my, your cluelessness seems to know no limits. Food is amazing here and housing is just fine. Taiwan is not at all a boring place unless you are stuck in the overrated Tainan.


"Amazing" is a rather strong adjective to describe the food in Taiwan. If you were talking about Thailand or Hong Kong then it might be accurate, but Taiwan . . . ? And what do you mean the housing is "just fine"? The housing in Taiwan is a nightmare. Actually Taipei is nothing more than a shanty town. But I digress. Wasn't this thread about dreadfully low salaries in Taiwan?

I'm not sure if you're working in a university there, but apart from the appallingly low salaries, you'll also need to contend with the fact that very soon the yearly Chinese New Year bonus might be a thing of the past. According to a recent report:

Workers will receive an average year-end bonus this year of 1.1 months of salary, the lowest in the past three years, according to an online survey published Tuesday.

The 104 Job Bank survey found that due to factors such as the European debt crisis and slower exports, this year's year-end bonus will be smaller than average bonuses of 1.25 months in 2012 and 1.24 months in 2011.


And the article goes on to note:

The three smallest bonuses will be given in cultural and educational companies (0.74 months), general service companies(0.76 months), and tourism and leisure companies(0.86).

http://focustaiwan.tw/ShowNews/WebNews_Detail.aspx?Type=aECO&ID=201212040031

So with dreadfully low salaries, the shrinking of holidays, the loss of pensions and bonuses, the unhygienic food, and jerry-built housing, who on earth would consider working in education in Taiwan????
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teacher4life



Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

romanworld wrote:

who on earth would consider working in education in Taiwan????


Apparently you, unless you are ready to fess up that you are not even here.
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacher4life wrote:
romanworld wrote:

who on earth would consider working in education in Taiwan????


Apparently you, unless you are ready to fess up that you are not even here.


Where I am is neither here nor there. Please address some of the issues I raise in my posts.
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3824
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacher4life wrote:
romanworld wrote:


However if you're a westerner, you'd never want to go native in Taiwan because the food sucks and is often unhygienic. This means you'll be shopping at the expensive western supermarkets and delis. You'd also want to rent a nice place, maybe in a place like Tienmu, and you'll find again that the fabled low cost of living is just that: A fable. Taiwan is a boring place compared to other countries in Asia and you'll find that you'll be making trips to bookshops and buying expensive books that you don't really need; you'll also be eating out at restaurants that are seriously overpriced; and if you have a Taiwanese girlfriend you'll often be expected to pay and this too will eat into your income. BOTTOM LINE: $NT55,000 won't go very far and you want be able to save anything and in the end you'll start asking yourself: Why on earth did I ever come here to teach English?


Oh my, your cluelessness seems to know no limits. Food is amazing here and housing is just fine. Taiwan is not at all a boring place unless you are stuck in the overrated Tainan.

If you are that unhappy, why don't you leave??? Of course you will take all your problems with you to the next place...



I think that this is the first time ever that I have read someone calling Taiwanese food amazing. I guess there is a first for everything.
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacher4life wrote:
Dig deeper. Plenty of unis offering 70,000-75,000 with only a Masters. Those jobs are there, but they don't advertise on tealit or here.

At least you didn't dispute private lesson rates, so hopefully you aren't being taken to the cleaners like creztor.


Your 'high-salary thesis' was contradicted yesterday by Vice President Sean Chen who said that salaries need to be higher right across the board to retain talent. Chen's sentiments were echoed by Council of Labor Affairs Deputy Minister Pan Shih-wei who said:

It is not the government’s policies that have led to the brain drain, but Taiwan’s “comparatively low wage levels,” which have failed to retain local talent or attract professionals from overseas, Pan said.
While the average starting pay for new graduates in Taiwan is between NT$20,000 and NT$30,000, “a Taiwanese college graduate may earn NT$50,000, NT$60,000 or even NT$70,000 if they work in Singapore,” he said.
“The problem lies with enterprises who are unwilling to raise salaries for their staff members,” Pan said.


http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2012/04/07/2003529730

And "enterprises" that employ foreigners as English teachers are guilty of paying appallingly low salaries, which is why Taiwan will never attract quality teachers even though the MOE is currently working on a new White Paper to come up with new ideas about how to retain talent. Of course the answer is to increase salaries, but Taiwanese bosses are so cheap the whole thing is flawed from the outset.

My advice would be to jump ship now before it's too late. The future is bleak for educators in Taiwan. And if those of you who are already there and have committed years of hard work to a Language Center, don't think you'll be thanked or rewarded for your efforts. Listen to what Cyrus C.Y. Chu, minister of the National Science Council, had to say about the contribution foreign labor has made to Taiwan:

Of the 450,000 foreigners working in Taiwan during the past 10 years, over 400,000 were blue-collar laborers, while around 20,000 were English teachers, he added. “These are not the kinds of skilled workers who can help Taiwan innovate and thrive.”

http://taiwantoday.tw/ct.asp?xitem=195866&CtNode=427

It's interesting how the minister uses "blue-collar laborers" and "English teachers" in one breath as though they are synonymous. And of course they are in the eyes of the Taiwanese bosses. An English teacher is a blue-collar worker, although one thing that was forgotten was that most blue-collar workers have unions to protect them in the developed world. Not so in Taiwan. You're completely expendable and have no recourse to justice. With cuts in salaries and bonuses and pensions and holidays looming, only the insane would consider a future in Formosa . . .
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

romanworld wrote:
I'm not sure if you're working in a university there, but apart from the appallingly low salaries, you'll also need to contend with the fact that very soon the yearly Chinese New Year bonus might be a thing of the past. ?


And now this news is official:

The Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) caucus yesterday finally consented to support Premier Sean Chen in scaling down year-end pension benefits for government retirees at Lunar New Year next year.
With the consensus reached among KMT lawmakers, the legislature is expected to cut the benefits budget of NT$20.2 billion (US$694.1 million), included in the government’s budget statement for next year, to NT$1.14 billion when the budget bill goes to the legislative floor.


http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2012/12/15/2003550175

With salaries already at rock bottom, teachers must be wondering if they'll be able to put rice on the table soon . . .
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now the Economics Minister has jumped on the bandwagon:

Economic Minister Shih Yen-shiang yesterday called for local enterprises to enforce proper pay rises for employees, saying that better pay is one of the most effective ways to retain talent.

Shih issued the call when speaking at a seminar titled “Upgrading Industrial Structures and Boosting Added Value,” organized by his ministry's Industrial Development Bureau.

The minister said he hopes local enterprises can weigh up employee's performances and make upward monthly salary adjustments to encourage loyalty and hard work.


http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2012/12/23/364961/Shih-suggests.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+forumosa%2Fchinapost+%28China+Post+Online+-+Taiwan%2C+News%29

But if local enterprises don't make "upward salary adjustments" all will not be lost because the minimum hourly rate is set to rise from NT$103 (about US$3.50) to NT$109 (about US$3.71). Wow! Workers on the minimum wage might just be able to afford to put a few decorations on the Christmas tree this year!

http://www.loc.gov/lawweb/servlet/lloc_news?disp3_l205403347_text
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sluggo832004



Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

71,900

I was quoted this salary for a job in Taiwan. Working for the goverment.


is this average? okay? This enough to live on in Taiwan?
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