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Teaching WITHOUT a degree.
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Concepcion780



Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 32
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a little off the subject, just some unsolicited life advice.

A BA is a useful thing to have outside of TEFL too. I went back to school to get mine later in life (about your age, but as a single mother) and I feel like that is much harder than doing it when you are younger and without dependents. There are people looking to learn English all over the world, and that is very unlikely to change in a few years. Your ability to get a degree in a straight forward way might though.

That said, if you would like some experience teaching English and are in the US, I would imagine you could probably find somewhere that teaches ESL and would welcome volunteers.

Good luck!
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Qaaolchoura



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 539
Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xie Lin wrote:

Much of Latin America, Cambodia until 2015, Ukraine, Russia, Eastern/Central Europe. (Ukraine and Russia is friend-of-a-friend info, so you need to verify elsewhere.) The Georgia Ministry of Ed program requires two years of college, but I don't know if that's a visa or a program requirement.

Georgia is a program requirement. Americans don't need visas to work in Georgia, and until we work out our own sort of Trans-Tasman (or rather Trans-Laurentian) Agreement with Canada, I believe it's the only foreign country in the world where we have the privilege. However I can't speak to whether you could get hired at a private school. After learning pay in private language schools was generally about the same as through the Mini-Ed program, but without the questionable housing and free airfare, I decided to stick with Turkey.

Regards,
~Q
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kpjf



Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like people have advised/warned you your opportunities are extremely limited to a few countries. Yes yes, some places may not ask for a degree but with the economic crisis all over the world there are less jobs available and thus you're going to be applying for jobs with people who have degrees. A degree shows dedication and if it's between you with no degree and someone else with a degree, we all know who will get the job.

Evanc wrote:
Thanks everyone.

Quote:
Glenski find the country(ies) that will take you as is. Then, go back to your regularly scheduled channel of life.


That's what I'm planning on doing.


So what you're saying is that you have no intention of teaching, you just want to go abroad for a year, have some fun then go back home, do a degree and get a career in a completely unrelated field?

You're going to pay a couple of thousand bucks for a CELTA course, set yourself up in a foreign country pay start-up costs, look for a crappy job with low salary (no degree = crappy job) with the knowledge that with no degree your chances of finding a job are reduced, just to experience life abroad for a year? Why? Do you really want to get a crappy job, with a crappy boss and then come on Dave's ESL cafe 1 year later complaining about it and how you want to quit?

I mean why not do the degree + celta, go abroad, and who knows you may actually like teaching and can do it longer. However, if you do it now and like it it will be much harder to go home and do the degree. If you do the degree now, go abroad and like it you'll be relieved at having the degree out of the way.

Of course you could get lucky and get a job from Canada, who knows? However, for many decent jobs nowadays a degree will be required and at 26 time is ticking on. Furthermore, on a motivational level I feel it will be much harder to start a degree in a couple of years when you're closer to 30 (thinking "4 years to go"), whereas if you start it now you can be relieved later.

All the best, but don't say you haven't been warned Smile

Finally, people here are not trying to be harsh, but tell the simple truth, which frankly some people don't want to hear. Some just want us to say "if you're persistent it'll be all good in the end" or "I know someone who had no degree but got a job in Japan and now he's on ...¥ a month raking it in" and other such inspirational stories.
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
if it's between you with no degree and someone else with a degree, we all know who will get the job.


Do we? A friend of mine (with no degree) got his current job over an applicant with an MA Tesol, and another acquaintance recently taught in Germany for a year without a CELTA, which we're constantly being told on here is next to impossible in Europe. I'm sure there are plenty of teachers out there with "sub-standard" qualifications who are doing ok for themselves.

I do agree with the rest of your post though Smile

I don't really get the level of animosity by some posters to degree-less teachers. It's the mickey mouse industry that we work in that you ought to be directing your ire towards. The notion of being a "teacher" suggests that one should be well-educated, but for as long as employers are happy to take on any old Tom, Dick or Harry, then you really can't blame people for taking opportunities that are available to them. The only ones that get my back up are the ones that whine that it's "not fair" that a degree is required, but the OP isn't one of these - give him a break!
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Teacher Jack



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 63
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tudor wrote:
Quote:
if it's between you with no degree and someone else with a degree, we all know who will get the job.


Do we? A friend of mine (with no degree) got his current job over an applicant with an MA Tesol, and another acquaintance recently taught in Germany for a year without a CELTA, which we're constantly being told on here is next to impossible in Europe. I'm sure there are plenty of teachers out there with "sub-standard" qualifications who are doing ok for themselves.


I think what happens is that a school looks at their minimum qualification needs and then stops looking at qualifications and start looking at other factors. Frankly, a language school needs someone with a CELTA. An MA is overkill. Who would you really hire if you owned a language school: a personable and professional looking CELTA holder or an average MA holder?
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tudor wrote:
Quote:
if it's between you with no degree and someone else with a degree, we all know who will get the job.


Do we? A friend of mine (with no degree) got his current job over an applicant with an MA Tesol, and another acquaintance recently taught in Germany for a year without a CELTA, which we're constantly being told on here is next to impossible in Europe. I'm sure there are plenty of teachers out there with "sub-standard" qualifications who are doing ok for themselves.
Sorry, but that is anecdotal at best.

Tudor wrote:
I don't really get the level of animosity by some posters to degree-less teachers. It's the mickey mouse industry that we work in that you ought to be directing your ire towards.
Two different issues there. Lack of degree vs. places that accept practically any degree.
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

- Duplicate post -

Last edited by Tudor on Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sorry, but that is anecdotal at best.


Meaning? Anecdotal or not, they still happened whether you or the rest of the "you'll never land a decent job without a degree" brigade want to believe it. Come to Indonesia, you'll meet plenty of degree-less teachers doing pretty well for themselves, and I'm sure that's not the only place where it's happening. Does that mean all degree-less teachers are doing well? Of course not, but nor are all teachers with degrees.

Quote:
Two different issues there. Lack of degree vs. places that accept practically any degree
.

Intrinsically linked though surely? If standards were higher across the board (impossible to implement, I realise) and degrees were required for all teaching jobs (again, unrealistic I know) then these frequent discussions wouldn't even be taking place.

From a purely selfish point of view, I wish standards were higher so that, as a degree-holder, there was less competition for the better jobs. At the same time, I'm not going to begrudge someone their opportunity. I've worked with some decent teachers without degrees and some bloody awful ones with degrees - but I suppose that's anecdotal as well... Rolling Eyes
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tudor wrote:
Quote:
Sorry, but that is anecdotal at best.


Meaning? Anecdotal or not, they still happened whether you or the rest of the "you'll never land a decent job without a degree" brigade want to believe it. Come to Indonesia, you'll meet plenty of degree-less teachers doing pretty well for themselves,
That is a better description than just a couple of examples of people you know. Now, if only you or someone else with experience there can say even roughly how many "plenty" is...

Quote:
and I'm sure that's not the only place where it's happening.
Me, too, but the idea is to explain a little better (ideally with numbers) to support the reply.
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Plenty" would be perhaps 25-30% of the teachers I've come across here (please don't ask me how many that is), and most of those (75%?) are doing well for themselves. By that I mean they're taking home in the ball park of US$2000 a month, which ain't bad in a developing country.

I can't speak for other countries, but in Indonesia (save for the better international schools and a couple of other places) not having a degree isn't an impediment to landing a well-paid job. Of course, that may well change in the future but despite numerous regulations coming into place of late nothing seems to have changed. I specifically returned to university as a mature student prior to teaching as I didn't wish to be limited by not having a degree; thus far, I've yet to see it make much of a difference.

Nevertheless, I don't regret doing it, and I'd much rather have the security of having one and being able to teach where I like than not having one. OP, take note!
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bulgogiboy



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 803

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know teachers in Qatar who have no degree, and they are making some of the best salaries a TEFLer can make anywhere. I'm not saying it's the norm, but it is possible.
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kpjf



Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tudor wrote:
Quote:
if it's between you with no degree and someone else with a degree, we all know who will get the job.


Do we? A friend of mine (with no degree) got his current job over an applicant with an MA Tesol, and another acquaintance recently taught in Germany for a year without a CELTA, which we're constantly being told on here is next to impossible in Europe. I'm sure there are plenty of teachers out there with "sub-standard" qualifications who are doing ok for themselves.

I do agree with the rest of your post though Smile


I am no expert, I was just saying what I think personally; and, of course exceptions will always occur. I mean to say there are always going to be stories of "I know someone without a degree who...". Also, for example, we don't know the full story: the person with a degree and MA Tesol may have had absolutely no experience yet the other one had heaps of experience. Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe the other candidate sucked at interviews. Also, was the person who got a job in Germany European?

I'm personally not trying to be rude with what I wrote towards the poster (I'm not sure if you're referring to me or not). I think people are just trying to get the point across that a degree is required, purely based on the fact that many employers require one and due to hard times competition is greater. Okay, you talk about Indonesia, I cannot argue with you here, simply because I know nothing about it. And, if you say there are a fair amount of people doing well, that's great. I was under the impression salaries there for the standard ESL teacher weren't so good though (of course taking into consideration standard of living), but if you say this

Quote:
"Plenty" would be perhaps 25-30% of the teachers I've come across here (please don't ask me how many that is), and most of those (75%?) are doing well for themselves. By that I mean they're taking home in the ball park of US$2000 a month, which ain't bad in a developing country.


fair enough (I don't know how expensive Indonesia is for accomodation/food etc).

So, from what you write maybe Indonesia is a good choice for the OP.

Tudor wrote:

Nevertheless, I don't regret doing it, and I'd much rather have the security of having one and being able to teach where I like than not having one. OP, take note!


Yes, the OP should take note here Smile. This is essentially my point to him: better having one than not so he isn't restricted.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Tudor,

" . . . but in Indonesia (save for the better international schools and a couple of other places) not having a degree isn't an impediment to landing a well-paid job."

Wow - Indonesia must have changed a lot since the early 90s.

Regards,
John
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@kpjf - yes, you're right, things aren't always as straightforward as they seem. The teachers without degrees who are doing well have all been here for a few years, so they've got a decent reputation and all the rest of it. Of course, the OP wouldn't land a job that paid $2000 a month off the plane, but then again nor would any newbie - even someone with experience elsewhere might have to start lower down the ladder.

Quote:
Wow - Indonesia must have changed a lot since the early 90s.


In what respect, John?
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kpjf



Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tudor wrote:
@kpjf - yes, you're right, things aren't always as straightforward as they seem. The teachers without degrees who are doing well have all been here for a few years, so they've got a decent reputation and all the rest of it. Of course, the OP wouldn't land a job that paid $2000 a month off the plane, but then again nor would any newbie - even someone with experience elsewhere might have to start lower down the ladder.


Thanks Tudor. I had actually struck Indonesia off my list as I thought it wasn't so good for teaching English, but maybe I was wrong!


Quote:
Wow - Indonesia must have changed a lot since the early 90s.


Quote:
In what respect, John?


I'd imagine he's talking about not needing a degree in Indonesia to get a job there nowadays (?)
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