Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

-
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Quagles



Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: - Reply with quote

..

Last edited by Quagles on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3210

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll be able to get a position somewhere. You're Caucasian, you're breathing, you speak English (and I'm assuming you don't have any STDs): You're in!

As far as finding a decent position, you'll just have to throw yourself in the water and see what happens.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
doogsville



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 572
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should be able to get a job, but since you're not from the 5 countries China recognises as having English as their native language, you won't get the necessary papers, so you will be working illegally. Your best option might be to find a school that can get you a business visa, an F visa, by employing you as a manager or something similar. While you won't be teaching legally, you will still have a one year multi entry visa and to get you it the school will have enough guanxi with the local PSB to make sure you are not troubled by the police.

That being said, you will still be working illegally, and the school will have more leverage over you than if you were working with the proper papers.

My previous employers used this method to employ Germans, Filipinos, Africans and Russians as teachers. Only the Germans got paid the same as the native speakers though, the others worked the same hours for less money.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3210

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
since you're not from the 5 countries China recognises as having English as their native language, you won't get the necessary papers, so you will be working illegally.


That is not true. There are two teachers here who are not from one of the five; one from Denmark, the other from Colombia. The man from Colombia speaks very poor English. One of my colleagues in Zhengzhou is from Sweden; he has been at his school for two years and will probably be renewed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
doogsville



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 572
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johntpartee wrote:
Quote:
since you're not from the 5 countries China recognises as having English as their native language, you won't get the necessary papers, so you will be working illegally.


That is not true. There are two teachers here who are not from one of the five; one from Denmark, the other from Colombia. The man from Colombia speaks very poor English. One of my colleagues in Zhengzhou is from Sweden; he has been at his school for two years and will probably be renewed.


You don't mention if they have the proper work visas and resident permits to allow them to teach English though. Even if they do, those papers have been issued in violation of Chinese law, and are therefore illegal. I don't doubt they were issued because of someone's guanxi, but having an official stamp on something doesn't make it legally binding. You still have the same problem as my German friend then of being at the mercy of the schools owners in a way that people who satisfy all the criteria for legal paperwork don't. I could, and did, find another job when I realised the school were not playing fair. He is still there because he has no other options other than to work on a tourist visa for another school.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1519

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Even if they do, those papers have been issued in violation of Chinese law, and are therefore illega
l.

Many teachers who are not from these 5 countries do in fact teach legally.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
doogsville



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 572
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoBillyNO wrote:
Quote:
Even if they do, those papers have been issued in violation of Chinese law, and are therefore illega
l.

Many teachers who are not from these 5 countries do in fact teach legally.


How do they manage that when Chinese law states that only passport holders from these countries qualify as foreign experts and can legally be issued with foreign expert certificates for the purpose of teaching English?

I'm not arguing here by the way, simply asking, since the information may be useful to people I know who are not from those five countries. For instance my German friend who I mentioned before who is employed as a manager, not an English teacher, and who is therefore working illegally. This despite the fact that his employer has considerable guanxi. Surely if he could be employed legally as an English teacher the school would do so?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Teacher Jack



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 63
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife is a citizen of the Philippines and has FEC, Visa and more from our government school. It's BS that only people from the "5" countries can get an FEC for English teaching. What you may think of as "Chinese" law may just be provincial regulations. I can say without a doubt that Xinjiang allows people with different citizenships to teach English legally.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zhejiang_Man



Joined: 23 Aug 2012
Posts: 98
Location: Zhejiang

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What you may think of as "Chinese" law may just be provincial regulations.


FECs for non-native English teachers, getting a Z visa in Hong Kong, over 60s getting an FEC and FRP and a maximum employment duration of 5 years are all issues that vary from province to province.

Whether itís a question of provincial rules and regulations or provincial-level interpretation and application of national laws, Iím not sure. However, the variances are real.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
creeper1



Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 197
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: homework Reply with quote

There are so many non native speakers teaching English here in China that it is not even funny.

In my company there are a couple but they are proven teachers and have stuck with the company since the early days through thick and thin.

So unfortunately in the OPs case, as a newbie, you are going to have to risk an F-visa and (potentially) unscrupulous employers.

Don't worry it just means you'll have to do your homework more thoroughly. Visit the schools, talk to the current teachers (non native) and find out how they deal with the visa issue and if they get paid reliably.

Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
haopengyou



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next time you might want to put a more descriptive title than "I need some advice"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
janeal



Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Philippines

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: give it a shot Reply with quote

I'd recommend contacting a uni & getting their input. Probably the large unis in big cities are flush with applicants so I'd contact a couple in the rural areas. I taught recently at Shengda in henan & loved it. Yes, you can work legally as long as the uni does the proper paperwork. I was well over 60 when I applied & got all the paperwork anyway. So, if you want out of Norway, get started.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
doogsville



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 572
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teacher Jack wrote:
It's BS that only people from the "5" countries can get an FEC for English teaching..


Both needlessly aggressive, and factually incorrect. I never stated that only people from those 5 countries could 'get' and FEC, only that they were the only people who could get one legally. Your wife may have an FEC, but that does not make her legal if the FEC was obtained in violation of Chinese law.

Again I would state that I'm not trying to start an argument here. I'm genuinely interested in finding out whether Chinese law allows people from outside of those countries to obtain a legal foreign expert certificate. All the research I have done, which is hampered admittedly by my poor Chinese, says not. All of the websites I have visited state clearly that in order to obtain the necessary paperwork, Chinese law says you have to be a native English speaker. Only people from the 5 countries mentioned, with the exception of The Republic of Ireland would therefore qualify. Getting the paperwork because of guanxi does not make it legal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
doogsville



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 572
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a guy in the UK who will give you an MOT certificate, a certificate of road worthiness for those of you from outside the UK, for any car, regardless of condition. He is authorised by the government to issue those certificates. He will issue you the certificate regardless of the condition of your car, so long as you pay the required fee. The certificate is 100% genuine. Does that mean the car is roadworthy or that the insurance company would be obliged to pay out on a claim for that car on the grounds that the paperwork is legal?

I'm not asking if it's possible to get an FEC and a resident permit whether or not you meet the criteria, I'm asking whether such paperwork is legally binding. I'm asking if anyone has any evidence as to what the official SAFEA policy and law is regarding this issue.

All sensible and polite replies gratefully received. They may even go some way to helping the OP with his decision to come here or not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The problem is while I DO want to be a teacher, I don't want to be a teacher in Norway for more than a few years, I really want out of here. I don't want to get stuck as a teacher in Norway who isn't able to get out. Then I might as well just go for a better paying career and live with the hope that I would get picked up by an international firm, thus my ticket out of the country.


I reckon you could teach in Norway for a few years and then move into the international school circuit and never return to Norway again (if thats your thing). That route would be your best route to sustainably living/teaching abroad long term.

Yeah you might get a visa now that is 100% legit. But will you get the next visa? Will the rules change/tighten to make it even harder for a non-native? Will your employers guanxi wear thin?

Go the right route and you will be able to get out ... become a certified teacher in your own country and I would bet the international school door will open. And even if it doesnt turn out to be what you want, the door to go home and continue teaching in Norway will still be open.

Or you could skip the above, get a semi-legal/slighty dodgy/downright illegal visa, keep your fingers crossed and live contract to contract. And be fit for little more than flipping burgers when you finally get kicked out and have to go home. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only) All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC