Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

A modest proposal
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Poland
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Daktari



Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:02 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

The rotation I'm on is for life as I'm direct hire. I love this way of life. Super fit during my work cycles followed by great holidays anywhere in the world.

Saudi is what it is. If you haven't been there, then your opinions on this thread are a waste of time. It all depends on the employer, location and the colleagues around you. The most experienced, qualified teachers I've ever met have all been in the Gulf and North Africa. The sort-of- presentable, sort-of-competent lot tend to be around that newbie stomping ground called Eastern Europe. Sure some of you are experienced but a lot of you aren't....the majority even. One year repeated 5 times is not really experience. I'm happy you've done well Richfilth but your situation is not typical in Poland, certainly if you step outside that eyesore Warsaw. I agree with the guy who basically said a stint in the Middle East will give you options. The ME is not all doom. Qatar's a great place to live if you like beach/pool life and water sports. It doesn't have to be beaches, b*tches and BMW's.

I know dozens of teachers in Poland and most are struggling...maybe not to find privates etc, but with their futures, the cost of living and 'parochial' attitudes of the locals. Sharter always went on about sad, male western losers finding girls way out of their league in the east......I kind of agree with him.....cos most of the guys I know are there because of a girl.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 883
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion is worth quite a bit to me and it's the one that counts most. Saudi fits some, not others, it's that simple. It's clear it doesn't fit my plans so....

To each their own.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Daktari



Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:49 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

I firmly believe in only giving people advice on a place if I've been there and lived there for any amount of time. Some of the guys who live in Khobar and have the Bahrain option every day/weekend have good, enjoyable lives. Similarly, some of the BAe bunch live on great compounds. Married, Saudi is very doable given the right gig.

Also, people here get freaked out by Arabs and Islam. Don't believe the hype. They're mostly just normal people like you and me. Sure, there are things I don't like but the more you inquire the more you understand where they're coming from.

Have a look through the jobs boards for Poland and look at what's on offer. It's mostly derisory. The BC has paid well traditionally and if you can be arsed to run around, privates are often well rewarded but frankly speaking, Poland's a bit of a dour dump. The mountains are better and holidays cheaper in Austria, the Med beaches are in a different league and the ladies prettier in Turkey. However, it's ultimately horses for courses.

If your idea if a good meal out involves pierogi or pizy, then you'll fit right in.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 504

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the thing to take away from all of the bickering would be...maybe...some people like some things, other people like other things, but not everyone likes all of the same things. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1030

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sparks wrote:
So the thing to take away from all of the bickering would be...maybe...some people like some things, other people like other things, but not everyone likes all of the same things. Smile


that's not what i took from the last couple posts. that's not even an ultra watered down version.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iknowwhatiamtalkingabout



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

Daktari wrote:
The rotation I'm on is for life as I'm direct hire. I love this way of life. Super fit during my work cycles followed by great holidays anywhere in the world.

Saudi is what it is. If you haven't been there, then your opinions on this thread are a waste of time. It all depends on the employer, location and the colleagues around you. The most experienced, qualified teachers I've ever met have all been in the Gulf and North Africa. The sort-of- presentable, sort-of-competent lot tend to be around that newbie stomping ground called Eastern Europe. Sure some of you are experienced but a lot of you aren't....the majority even. One year repeated 5 times is not really experience. I'm happy you've done well Richfilth but your situation is not typical in Poland, certainly if you step outside that eyesore Warsaw. I agree with the guy who basically said a stint in the Middle East will give you options. The ME is not all doom. Qatar's a great place to live if you like beach/pool life and water sports. It doesn't have to be beaches, b*tches and BMW's.

I know dozens of teachers in Poland and most are struggling...maybe not to find privates etc, but with their futures, the cost of living and 'parochial' attitudes of the locals. Sharter always went on about sad, male western losers finding girls way out of their league in the east......I kind of agree with him.....cos most of the guys I know are there because of a girl.


Nonsense that teachers' opinions on this thread are a waste of time. What I see on this thread is some people seeking to justify a waste of life. By all means spend time in a sand pit if that's what you want to do, but expect people to ridicule the idea.

I make not far off the money mentioned on this thread. I don't live in a country with religious police or where I have to live in a compound. My boss is not a maniac.

Saudi just seems like a really rubbish idea.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PeterParvo



Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just worked for us, but I must say that there was no way in hell I was going to be one of those 40+ barfly teachers. Remember what salamiandbacon said about being the oldest person in the club? I've seen it too many times.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12215
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a mistake to demonise all jobs in KSA. If you work for a good employer, as did peterparvo, you can have a reasonable lifetyle and save some cash at he same time.

Some p**s it all away on vacations. Some become pathologhical savers, incapable of spending 2SR for a newspaper. Some take a middle course.

If your partner can also work, then you can really stack up the savings.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
salamiandbacon



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowwhatiamtalkingabout
Quote:
Nonsense that teachers' opinions on this thread are a waste of time. What I see on this thread is some people seeking to justify a waste of life. By all means spend time in a sand pit if that's what you want to do, but expect people to ridicule the idea.

I make not far off the money mentioned on this thread. I don't live in a country with religious police or where I have to live in a compound. My boss is not a maniac.



Shame you think anyone should ridicule a reasoned and rational post that may be helpful to someone, albeit not yourself. You may make nearly the same money, but I doubt a lot of teachers do. I also doubt that you can save that amount of money, which is a big consideration when looking for deposits for houses or clearing mortgages double quick so you can get on with your life debt free.
Looking at my friends back in Poland, I know that money can be tight. I'm letting you know about a place to make some decent scratch.
I have a decent enough life. I make 350GBP a week inovertime28 weeks of the year. Just overtime. Tax free. With free accommodation, no bills at all except food, a monthly petrol bill that is less than my bill for eggs, and I get 18 weeks paid vacation a year. I get to spend this vacation time in Poland, if I wish, or I can actually afford to visit friends and family in the UK. Booze is available 45 minutes away by car, I haven't been observed in the classroom for 10 years, I actually quite like my direct boss and I have never had big problems with the saudi management. I never have to worry about cancelled classes or early starts in the snow, I am having a bbq on the beach this weekend, and my fridge has lots of farmhouse cheddar in it.
Oh, and I'll actually be able to retire debt free on several times the Polish national average salary at the age of 41-2.
Ridicule away, dear boy, about how I'm wasting my life. I think I can handle it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richfilth



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Warszawa

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than this turning into a slagging match, maybe it would be fairer to approach this logically. Those supporting a life in KSA haven't really put forward any of the negative aspects of living there (which is why this reads very much like a Saudi Tourist Board advert), and dismiss any criticism from outside with a flippant "you haven't been there, you don't know."

So let's list the pluses and minuses of both countries fairly:

Money is clearly better in Saudi
Costs are significantly lower in Saudi.
Weather is arguable. Most people like sun, but not Saudi hot. Most people like snow, but not 4 months of it. Therefore no clear winner.

Anyone else? There are a dozen other factors to consider besides cash and climate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
salamiandbacon



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought we had gone into some of the downsides, but, in the interests of fairness, I'll lay some out.
There is a big difference between employers. Some people get jobs through agencies and have a terrible time getting paid, or get paid less than direct hire. Do your research or PM some of the pro-saudi faction for hints on where to consider.
Saudi is Saudi. If you are an evangelical Christian wanting to go to church and convert people, stay away. Wives can't drive and have to wear abayas - long batman capes- when they go out. either they get used to it and stay, or they don't. Limited access to the opposite sex. It's not a place to pull in easily, so it doesn't appeal to young bucks/aging studs. Booze is illegal, so no bar scene as there is in Poland, similarly no discos or cinemas. As has been pointed out, however, homebrew exists and there are speakeasies that may be your thing. So the chronic tippler may be put off, but not necessarily.
It can be difficult to live abroad. If you like Poland, even with lots of holidays you miss out on things. Life goes on without you and you can lose touch. Up to you, though.
Once you go to saudi, it can be hard to leave. When is enough enough? You can go overboard on saving and there is no point being miserable today in the hopes of a better life someday. Have a plan, work the plan.
Saudi driving sucks.
Boredom and routine can be a problem. The methodology in saudi tends to be lecturing rather than communicative shennanigans. Suits some, not others.
You are the hired help, it is not your country. Saudis can look down their noses at foreigners, and some of the rules are different for them than you. This can be a sticking point for some and either you learn to deal or you go home. White westerners are generally left alone and are often a lot better off than the lower class locals, however.
Take a look on the forums and do your own research. Just remember that good news is no news. People enjoy a good whinge, even when they are on a good wicket! If you think you might be interested, give it a try and see for yourself. Poland will still be there, as I said before.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iknowwhatiamtalkingabout



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

salamiandbacon wrote:
iknowwhatiamtalkingabout
Quote:
Nonsense that teachers' opinions on this thread are a waste of time. What I see on this thread is some people seeking to justify a waste of life. By all means spend time in a sand pit if that's what you want to do, but expect people to ridicule the idea.

I make not far off the money mentioned on this thread. I don't live in a country with religious police or where I have to live in a compound. My boss is not a maniac.



Shame you think anyone should ridicule a reasoned and rational post that may be helpful to someone, albeit not yourself. You may make nearly the same money, but I doubt a lot of teachers do. I also doubt that you can save that amount of money, which is a big consideration when looking for deposits for houses or clearing mortgages double quick so you can get on with your life debt free.
Looking at my friends back in Poland, I know that money can be tight. I'm letting you know about a place to make some decent scratch.
I have a decent enough life. I make 350GBP a week inovertime28 weeks of the year. Just overtime. Tax free. With free accommodation, no bills at all except food, a monthly petrol bill that is less than my bill for eggs, and I get 18 weeks paid vacation a year. I get to spend this vacation time in Poland, if I wish, or I can actually afford to visit friends and family in the UK. Booze is available 45 minutes away by car, I haven't been observed in the classroom for 10 years, I actually quite like my direct boss and I have never had big problems with the saudi management. I never have to worry about cancelled classes or early starts in the snow, I am having a bbq on the beach this weekend, and my fridge has lots of farmhouse cheddar in it.
Oh, and I'll actually be able to retire debt free on several times the Polish national average salary at the age of 41-2.
Ridicule away, dear boy, about how I'm wasting my life. I think I can handle it.


I don't live in Poland anymore, although I will be swinging by next summer as part of my holiday with plenty of money to spend there.

I live in Asia now. I don't have to drive 45 minutes for a drink, I can have/go to a bbq whenever I like, the weather is wonderful, the social life is good, my savings are piling up nicely for the future... and I don't live in a sand pit with religious police...

I'm sure the money you're saving is nice, but the idea of spending your only shot at life living in a place like that just seems like a waste to me. Like I said, any of us could drop down any time.

Also, I find it interesting that you seem pleased not to have been observed in the classroom for ten years. I like my employers to take my work seriously.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Daktari



Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:13 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

Change the word Saudi for Qatar. Then you have everything you have in Poland minus the winter plus a great salary. That ain't a waste of life. It's a great place to bring up a family.....I know as I'm speaking FROM EXPERIENCE unlike some on this thread.

I'm happy with the rotation. I enjoy the time I spend in Libya...it's me time. EFLinoil said pretty much the same about his gig in Kazakhstan. With a rotation you've got the best of both worlds. I can buy a 50m flat cash every 2 years in Poland and still rent my place with a pool and pay my alimony...and go where the flip I want whenever I'm on leave and party like a rockstar.

Some of the posters here have that big fish, little pond syndrome synonymous with the 5-year-experience-threshold.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
salamiandbacon



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowwhatiamtalkingabout

Quote:
Also, I find it interesting that you seem pleased not to have been observed in the classroom for ten years. I like my employers to take my work seriously


I think that trusting me to do a good job without constantly peering over my shoulder is taking my work seriously. I mention it to illustrate that I do not have a "maniac boss".

Quote:
I don't live in Poland anymore, although I will be swinging by next summer as part of my holiday with plenty of money to spend there


So you've come to the same conclusion that I have, that it is worth looking around for options, but have chosen a different place to do it.

I presume you are not intending to settle back in Poland, so the amount of time out of country is not important to you. If you want to make cash quickly so you can get back to your life in Poland, I think Saudi is worth a look. That is the point of this thread. If you'd like to say which Asian country you're in and let people know something more about the pluses and minuses, that would be most helpful.

You could convince me!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Daktari



Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: 1 more thing Reply with quote

I do think there's an age factor thing going on too.

Young(ish) Poland's a laugh as the students are nice, the beer is cheap and the dating scene 'easy'.

Middle-aged then you don't need all of that and you may need cash to pay for kids etc.

The Middle East certainly gets easier, the older you get....that could be a libido thing :-)

And for what it's worth, at 42 I still love hangin' off a bar when it suits me to do so.

Re the teaching? You'll never get challenged teaching Poles as they make your life easy in the classroom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Poland All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 3 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC