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umowa o dzielo / karta pobytu / insurance
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john123



Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: umowa o dzielo / karta pobytu / insurance Reply with quote

edit.

Last edited by john123 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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simon_porter00



Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 460
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's been a long time since I played with this but from what i know/remember:
Umowa o dzieło (UoDz) is a standard contract misused by schools to hire teachers. On the basis of this, they should pay you upon the following principle:

your gross pay (let's say it's 100zł per 45 min - rich guy!) is treated as follows:
20% of your gross pay is seen as 'costs' and can't be taxed. Therefore only 80% of your gross pay can be taxed at 18% = 18% of 80zł is 14,4zł. This total (14.4zł) is taken from the original gross amount (100zł - 14.4zł) = 85,6zł. This is your take home pay. The school has to pay your tax.

This is how is should operate, however various dodges have and are being attempted by schools - lower tax rates, schools registering their centres of operations abroad i.e. the uk, where your earnings come under the taxable limits etc etc.

**Assumption is made you're from the UK. If not the EU health card bit doesn't apply to you**

The UoDz doesn't come with health insurance at all, so it's private healthcare for you (unless you have the EU healthcare card which entitles you to basic health care free of charge). The 300zł per month seems quite similar to the reduced rate zus (Polish equivalent of the NHS) for self-employed people who have started their own businesses.

The 3 month registration thing is another debate. Some people say it's legally not necessary and if this is the case word hasn't reached everyone in Poland as it's still asked for. Basically, you have to register yourself in Poland at an address (you have to find an obliging landlord for this or the school will provide an address for you) to get a document of temporary stay.
If you're not EU forget about the above. You need to get the school to process your documents for a work permit no later than 45 days from when you entered the schengen zone. If they haven't done this, you haven't got a work permit, and the 90 day visa has expired, you're in the deep dark brown smelly stuff.
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maniak



Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The school pays your tax. With every umowa o dzielo (this is your contract that simply states you do X they pay you Y in gross or net) the school then gives you an invoice (rachunek) that shows a breakdown of the costs and how much you make net.

With an umowa o dzielo you have no public health care. You can voluntarily sign up for it, it costs 340zl a month not 300. The best part about this is you really are sick and need to see a doctor you can either wait in line for about a month... or go see the doctor privately and shell out 50-100zl per visit.

You can easily buy private medical insurance for that same amount that has almost everything including surgery, hospital treatment and god knows what else. I pay 130zl a month and it has everything I need besides serious surgery and stuff like chemotherapy.
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john123



Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for this, both of you.

I am from the UK and have a European Health Insurance Card. Mind, 130zl a month for private medical insurance does not seem a bad bet.

ZUS is another thing altogether ...another thing which confuses me.

Regards

John P.
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Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Itabashi, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maniak wrote:
With an umowa o dzielo you have no public health care. You can voluntarily sign up for it, it costs 340zl a month not 300. The best part about this is you really are sick and need to see a doctor you can either wait in line for about a month... or go see the doctor privately and shell out 50-100zl per visit.


Worthless ZUS (public health insurance). I need it like a fish needs a bicycle.

I've actually heard it's good to have ZUS if something catastrophic happens (car accident, broken limb, etc.) But I'll wager you could get the same care by paying out of pocket and the cost wouldn't be so astronomical - this is unlike in the States where even a short hospital visit costs a small fortune.
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maniak



Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Master Shake wrote:
a bicycle.

I've actually heard it's good to have ZUS if something catastrophic happens (car accident, broken limb, etc.) But I'll wager you could get the same care by paying out of pocket and the cost wouldn't be so astronomical - this is unlike in the States where even a short hospital visit costs a small fortune.


A car accident or broken limb is hardly catastrophic, either physically or emotionally. Having a stroke, heart attack, cancer or a thousand other debilitating diseases, or if you become paralyzed or need medical help 24/7 or needing numerous operations is catastrophic.

My private medical insurance only covers some operations, and pretty basic ones at that. If you want insurance that covers EVERYTHING it probably costs as much as NFZ.

And paying out of pocket in Poland also costs a small fortune. Ive heard of 1500zl a day for treatment after a car accident (9 days total in the hospital).

Shit, that reminds me, its almost March 15... tax time
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sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Hospitals Reply with quote

I went to hospital last year and paid 500Zl/day privately.
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dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1035

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mastershake wrote:

Quote:
this is unlike in the States where even a short hospital visit costs a small fortune.


for the insurance company or social program footing the bill, yes.

for most people with insurance, they have a copay of $50-$100 for an ER visit and if you're poor and uninsured, you're most likely covered under Medicaid. although the health insurance system in the USA is pretty messed up right now, going to the ER is usually just a copay and then the insurance company/the feds gets the huge bill when you leave.

I got food poisoning about 8 years ago and spent 3 days in the hospital. $50.
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simon_porter00



Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 460
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife went to hospital recently for 4 days. Was referred to one of the best hospitals in Warsaw, had numerous tests and was held for observations and paid a grand total of ziltch.
New rooms, comfortable, warm, food was ropey i'll give you that, but there was no reason for us to complain at all.

**edit - there was a complaint, the old woman who she shared the room with on the 2nd and 3rd night snored like a tractor (although this is hardly the fault of the hospital).


Last edited by simon_porter00 on Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lundjstuart



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 211
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last August I had knee surgery, 2 days in the hospital and physical therapy.

FUZ (Fundusz Ubezpieczenia Zdrowotny)- 113,05 zl a month now it's 254,55zl a month after the price hike.

The problem with paying for ZUS and for private healthcare is simple, you're forced to pay ZUS and not for private healthcare.

The doctor that performed my surgery also works for a private hospital.

The main difference that I see in using private healthcare is in pre/post-op, you get a private room and satellite tv. In a public hospital, you only get TVP 1-3 for free and there are 3 other people in the room with you.
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dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1035

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="lundjstuart"]Last August I had knee surgery, 2 days in the hospital and physical therapy.

quote]

what kind of knee surgery? curious.
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simon_porter00



Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 460
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

someone gave him a little tickle on the side of the knee and he fell down like a sack of potatoes just so he could go to hospital and get touched up by the attractive trainee nurses.

That's what he told me anyway.

The official version was that he was qb for one of the warsaw american football teams, took a nasty tackle and partly tore one of the ligaments in his knee and had pin-hole surgery to tidy up the joint.
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Pooledogg



Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Posts: 20
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The UK has a billateral agreement with Poland so as far as I understand it counts towards your UK pension contributions too. I have Umowa O Dzielo and every language school seems to offer contracts with these. However, I have not paid ZUS at all and have been here for 18 months. I am now told you can be fined for not doing this and the fine increases the longer your stay in Poland has been. I have also loooked into private healthcare and have a basic policy which covers doctors but not specialists but no policies cover operations.
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lundjstuart



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 211
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[/quote]what kind of knee surgery? curious.[/quote]

I had arthroscopic surgery, tore my lateral meniscus and some of my ACL. They also cleaned up my knee from an accident I had in 2005.

The doctor spoke English fluently. Had a lovely conversation with him while he was doing everything (I got to watch everything).

I was even allowed to get a copy of the video after the surgery! Twisted Evil
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maniak



Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pooledogg wrote:
but no policies cover operations.


Depends on which "pakiet" you buy. For example my girlfriend's policy covers: chirurgia, ortopedia, okulistyka, laryngologia, ginekologia, urologia, kardiologia

The problem is that no private policies, at least to my knowledge, offer "full-coverage", so something that could completely substitute NFZ/Kasa Chorych.
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