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Gun Control
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sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 496

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course our landscape has influenced our mentality in many ways, for the average American wood isn't a luxury, as in Europe Smile

Has anyone seen this? Truly amazing!

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/megan-mcardles-outrageous-gun-recommendation/266450/
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8928
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wood a luxury? In Europe? What are we talking about exactly?
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sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 496

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the States there are wooden telephone poles, for example--I was just being silly. Anyway, I agree that the idea of American individualism/frontier culture is part of the rampant gun culture.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9320
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are wooden 'telephone' poles all over the landscape because US politicians haven't wanted to invest in infrastructure and haven't therefore, buried the majority of cables underground, as has been done in large swaths of Europe. Hence, the massive power outages in the US every time a storm hits.

Luxury? Not !! In this case US use of wood is the direct cause of massive power outages; Germany has an average of 21 minutes of outages yearly - and yes, there are storms in Germany too (more snow and ice than hurricanes, but comparable to the midwest).


http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/02/opinion/frum-buried-lines/index.html

Quote:

CNN) -- Congratulations: If you're reading this, you have electricity. Unfortunately, more than 3 million Americans this weekend couldn't join you. The sweltering heat wave that roasted the eastern United States was accompanied by terrible storms that have knocked out power lines up and down the seaboard.

While you enjoy your air conditioning, you might want to take a minute to consider: Why do Americans tolerate such outages?

Outages are not inevitable. The German power grid has outages at an average rate of 21 minutes per year.

Millions still without power amid record heat wave


David FrumThe winds may howl. The trees may fall. But in Germany, the lights stay on.

There's no Teutonic engineering magic to this impressive record. It's achieved by a very simple decision: Germany buries almost all of its low-voltage and medium-voltage power lines, the lines that serve individual homes and apartments. Americans could do the same. They have chosen not to



http://www.npr.org/2012/02/01/146158822/if-power-lines-fall-why-dont-they-go-underground
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8928
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Collectivisation is the key to solving this blight on American society. Community spirit needs to be carefully fostered, group feeling nurtured. The only people who can overcome this gun insanity are the People - as in "We, the People..." All of this "I, me, mine" attitude is responsible for many of the modern day evils afflicting the States, but especially gun crimes. Guns seem to afford the right and security to go it alone in society, the threat of using them enough to dissuade even one's neighbours from approaching.

So, form a soviet to deal with excessive individualisation. If guns must be held, then train owners not only how to use them, but when to use them. Such training can be easily carried out in Pioneer camps as in Russia. ( Show me a Russian who can't strip down and re-assemble an AK-47, yet there is not all that much in the way of school massacres...)

Doesn't sound realistic to you? Look at Switzerland. Illegal not to have a gun there, yet no regular outrages. Why not? Community feeling - "we're all in this together and are armed to protect each other from military invasion, not random criminals..." Which I believe was the original idea in America too...

A Socialist response is the only one that makes any sense here. Just like with healthcare. I hope the US catches on and catches up.
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wangdaning



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1982

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
Collectivisation is the key to solving this blight on American society. Community spirit needs to be carefully fostered, group feeling nurtured. The only people who can overcome this gun insanity are the People - as in "We, the People..." All of this "I, me, mine" attitude is responsible for many of the modern day evils afflicting the States, but especially gun crimes. Guns seem to afford the right and security to go it alone in society, the threat of using them enough to dissuade even one's neighbours from approaching.

So, form a soviet to deal with excessive individualisation. If guns must be held, then train owners not only how to use them, but when to use them. Such training can be easily carried out in Pioneer camps as in Russia. ( Show me a Russian who can't strip down and re-assemble an AK-47, yet there is not all that much in the way of school massacres...)

Doesn't sound realistic to you? Look at Switzerland. Illegal not to have a gun there, yet no regular outrages. Why not? Community feeling - "we're all in this together and are armed to protect each other from military invasion, not random criminals..." Which I believe was the original idea in America too...

A Socialist response is the only one that makes any sense here. Just like with healthcare. I hope the US catches on and catches up.


I applaud your effort.
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sixthchild



Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Posts: 276
Location: East of Eden

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah thanks spiral, don't know how I missed this thread, must have been all the gunsmoke. Seriously, a lot of fuss about this gun thingy, its people who kill other people remember, you know they use all sorts of things every day, like cars, alcohol, cigarettes,extreme sports, I'm sure between us we could complile quite a list.
another thing, so much media time and debate is banging on about this, yet when 11 afgan kids get killed collecting firewood, or the fact that kids in Africa die every DAY of starvation no gives a damn, yet its different if the kids come from the states, WHY?? The gun laws in the states can be changed if the people with the power want that to happen but until their familes are gunned down thats not gonna happen, we all know that!
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3135

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wangdaning wrote:
Sashadroogie wrote:
Collectivisation is the key to solving this blight on American society. Community spirit needs to be carefully fostered, group feeling nurtured. The only people who can overcome this gun insanity are the People - as in "We, the People..." All of this "I, me, mine" attitude is responsible for many of the modern day evils afflicting the States, but especially gun crimes. Guns seem to afford the right and security to go it alone in society, the threat of using them enough to dissuade even one's neighbours from approaching.

So, form a soviet to deal with excessive individualisation. If guns must be held, then train owners not only how to use them, but when to use them. Such training can be easily carried out in Pioneer camps as in Russia. ( Show me a Russian who can't strip down and re-assemble an AK-47, yet there is not all that much in the way of school massacres...)

Doesn't sound realistic to you? Look at Switzerland. Illegal not to have a gun there, yet no regular outrages. Why not? Community feeling - "we're all in this together and are armed to protect each other from military invasion, not random criminals..." Which I believe was the original idea in America too...

A Socialist response is the only one that makes any sense here. Just like with healthcare. I hope the US catches on and catches up.


I applaud your effort.


I applaud your effort, Comrade.

Cool

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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kpjf



Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sixthchild wrote:
Yeah thanks spiral, don't know how I missed this thread, must have been all the gunsmoke. Seriously, a lot of fuss about this gun thingy, its people who kill other people remember, you know they use all sorts of things every day, like cars, alcohol, cigarettes,extreme sports, I'm sure between us we could complile quite a list.
another thing, so much media time and debate is banging on about this, yet when 11 afgan kids get killed collecting firewood, or the fact that kids in Africa die every DAY of starvation no gives a damn, yet its different if the kids come from the states, WHY?? The gun laws in the states can be changed if the people with the power want that to happen but until their familes are gunned down thats not gonna happen, we all know that!


I agree.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/17/us-killings-tragedies-pakistan-bug-splats
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12304
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear sixthchild and kpjf,

I agree, too - it's far easier to feel sorrow when it strikes closer to home.

But at least, to my knowledge, nobody's doing this, either, about ". . . 11 afgan kids get killed collecting firewood, or the fact that kids in Africa die every DAY of starvation . . ."

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&rlz=&q=arabs+celebrating+9+11+youtube&oq=Arabs+celebrate+9%2F11+youtube&gs_l=igoogle.1.0.0i22.17275105.17289301.0.17291240.28.28.0.0.0.0.379.3635.1j19j4j1.25.0...0.0...1ac.1.jmITP0Mzo78

Regards,
John
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, kids die in war torn and poverty stricken regions, people kill other people, and overall Iíve heard mass gun slaughters compared to being struck by lightning Ė itís statistically that rare.

I donít know if thatís true because it seems to be on the increase, but I donít think it matters. I donít see the point of many of the comparisons because itís not comparing like with like. Cars, though potentially lethal, are not designed to kill people. Lightning is random and without human purpose: it can't be controlled. It seems to me the killers take glory in their moment of absolute power, knowing that others are running, hiding and terrified: this kick is part of the scenario. What else would provide that on such a large, public scale?

Getting your head around mass poverty on a huge geographic scale and a region thatís been war torn for generations is almost impossible. When the problems are so massive, where do you begin? How would you protect those 11 Afghan kids and a further 11 in such a dangerous region? But a schoolroom of kids slaughtered in those regions would be major news, I think. Itís something closer to everyday reality that we can get quickly our heads around and feel the impact of the horror of it. I donít think thatís a reaction specific to a country, but certainly closer to home it hits harder.
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Otterman Ollie



Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 1041
Location: South Western Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is another side to this debate that has not been touched yet! Why is it that a young man such as this can go out and commit such an unbelieveable act?
What is wrong with Americian society that events such as this are becoming an all to frequent occurence?
If what some are saying in the media this was just waiting to happen, just as sure as 9/11 was. What or when is the next outrage of this kind going to take place and will any lessons be learned from this or others to come in the future?
Somehow I doubt it, violence breeds more violence, bearing in mind the U.S in not in the middle of a civil war it is an incredibly violent country!
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8928
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I had touched on this - my Marxist analysis provides a reason as to why these acts happen.
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Otterman Ollie



Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 1041
Location: South Western Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh you mean all that twaddle about russians been able to strip down weapons and all that fostering and community nonsense, sorry mate but I think you need to look at the bigger picture here.
Basically the average log cabin dweller has moved to the urban areas and has now a fully blown arse-enal at his /her disposal and is just dying to see how much damage they can do to their nearest minority group or rampant runaway political group or wannabe terroist or poor unfortunate who looks like he might break into their home on account they are starving, when there is none of them more traditional targets, they go for the soft option, namely a school, just to show the world at large, a) they can do it, coz its the land of the free and they want to be free to share their bullets with the same society that gave them the license to buy them. b) They have unfortunate memories of school days and didn't want the kids to go through the agony they went thro. c) Like most modern log cabin dwellers they are pretty screwed up and they want to vent and get noticed, the real screw balls don't kill themselves, which says a lot about Norway, yeah remember him?
Don't worry gun lovers you're not alone, there must be a whole army out there just waiting to get their chance to make the nine o clock news.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8928
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twaddle, eh? As opposed to the non-stop nonsense on TV stations covering this tragedy?

Marxist dialectic provides plenty of information about the alienation suffered by members of a Capitalist society. And alienation is a key element in the whys and wherefores of US gun massacres.
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