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solution to ESL Corruption
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Lancy Bloom



Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 124
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:41 am    Post subject: solution to ESL Corruption Reply with quote

There is only one solution to what is going on in EFL industry in China and that is being paid your airfare to China. That is the way it used to be in Japan Korea and Taiwan. Then employers can't change the contract. They still may not pay you in the end but they are not going to change the conditions of the contract when you arrive.
Ask any person doing business in China and they will tell you the same. I do not do any work untill I have be paid.
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rogerwilco



Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1187

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if airfare was paid up front the schools can still try to change the contract.
Actually, if they did pay upfront then I would guess that some schools would either try to guilt you or harass you into agreeing to a different contract because you "owe them".


You may first agree to 15 classes a week, but then after you have arrived in China what is to stop them from taking advantage of those that arrive without any money to go home ?
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Javelin of Radiance



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Few countries pay your airfare up front. I don't think taiwan covers airfare at all. Of the countries that do it's common for them to take a %age of your first few months salary to cover the ticket they bought for you. You get all that money back once you finish the contract, but in the beginning you're still paying for your own air ticket, just not directly. Schools aren't stupid and they don't give anything out without getting something back in return.
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Ariadne



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always received my travel allowance in full, without any problems. I've been at three schools in China over a period of 8+ years. The one where I am now pays half the allowance at the semester break and the other half at the end of the 2nd term. The other two schools paid it at all at the end of the 2nd term. The payment arrangements have always been spelled out clearly in the contract.

There may well be some shady dealings when it comes to the travel allowances, but I've never experienced any trouble with mine.


.
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mandu



Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 725
Location: china

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

when I worked in Japan,Taiwan and Korea all my airfares were paid upfront,I could not afford to pay,it was a good way to see different countries and get paid at the same time.

my 1st kindergarten that i worked for in china paid my airfare up front as well,they got me a one way ticket from England to China.
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Lancy Bloom



Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 124
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only people I find who are happy with the current system of we pay and then get re-embursed are here at Dave's.
I never posted when I worked in China because I knew my e-mail was monitored. This is why you only have positive things being said here. If I had 1rmb for everytime the example of the depraved EFL teacher who was constantly drunk and was constantly hitting on his pretty students, I'd be rich. I never in my eight years of teaching in China, ran into this type of person.
China has brought down the profession all over the world. Ten years ago you were supplied with a round trip airline ticket. You interviewed for the job in your own country. Schools dealt with schools. There was academic credibility. Now you deal with invisible people on the internet.
You need to get two medicals because the Chinese project their ways on you. They know that you can pay a doctor to write what you want so you must get another medical when you get here.
It is about time we teachers acted like professionals and demanded what is righfully hours.
If there is no recourse for a breached contract then what is the point in coming here? They don't have to pay you for any trivial reason they can come up with. They use the old start a fight on the last month of a contract and you never see your airfare or overtime. It is common and accepted in Chinese society.
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Javelin of Radiance



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hewlett77, is that you?
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3135

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancy Bloom wrote:
It is about time we teachers acted like professionals and demanded what is righfully hours.


Spelling?

Lancy Bloom wrote:
If there is no recourse for a breached contract then what is the point in coming here? They don't have to pay you for any trivial reason they can come up with. They use the old start a fight on the last month of a contract and you never see your airfare or overtime.


What you talkin' bout, Willis? Please make this message clearer.

Javelin of Radiance wrote:
Hewlett77, is that you?


Very Happy

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3135

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancy Bloom wrote:
If I had 1rmb for everytime the example of the depraved EFL teacher who was constantly drunk and was constantly hitting on his pretty students, I'd be rich. I never in my eight years of teaching in China, ran into this type of person.


I'm not quite sure what your message is here. Plenty of these types in all countries all over the world though.

This latest barrage of negative Nellies disparaging the state of ESL in China amuses me. Yes, the state of ESL is what it is here and it is common knowledge that the overall state of things may not be in tip-top shape here. I do understand this and I do realize that some do get a raw deal here.

However, there ARE also others with a pretty good situation here in Our China and there are fair and reliable employers out there. Let's not paint all employers with the same brush, shall we, and let's try to remain more objective about things. Let's calm the knee-jerking tendencies to label someone an apologist, for example, every time a poster doesn't go along with the negative Nelly line of wanting to thrash every and any thing related to ESL in China.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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Nkengaola



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Wanzhou, Chongqing

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fat_chris wrote:
Let's not paint all employers with the same brush, shall we, and let's try to remain more objective about things. Let's calm the knee-jerking tendencies to label someone an apologist, for example, every time a poster doesn't go along with the negative Nelly line of wanting to thrash every and any thing related to ESL in China.


Exactly, thank you.
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rogerwilco



Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1187

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancy Bloom wrote:

I never posted when I worked in China because I knew my e-mail was monitored. .


Who do you think was monitoring your emails, and why ?
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Zimmer



Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: solution to ESL Corruption Reply with quote

Lancy Bloom wrote:
There is only one solution to what is going on in EFL industry in China and that is being paid your airfare to China. That is the way it used to be in Japan Korea and Taiwan. Then employers can't change the contract. They still may not pay you in the end but they are not going to change the conditions of the contract when you arrive.
Ask any person doing business in China and they will tell you the same. I do not do any work untill I have be paid.


The schools would probably answer your question by saying that they have problems with teachers saying they'll be there on x date and never showing up. Or with teachers leaving after a month because they're homesick or something and never telling anyone. Or with teachers arriving who are completely inept or drunks,or worse. Why would any business run the risk of giving them a ticket up front when you can pay them after they've shown themselves to be reliable?
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MisterButtkins



Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1215

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly I've never heard any complaints about the airfare situation. It always seemed fair to me. It seems like you probably just hang around the princessy, whiner-type ESL teachers who want everything on a silver platter.
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
However, there ARE also others with a pretty good situation here in Our China and there are fair and reliable employers out there. Let's not paint all employers with the same brush, shall we, and let's try to remain more objective about things. Let's calm the knee-jerking tendencies to label someone an apologist, for example, every time a poster doesn't go along with the negative Nelly line of wanting to thrash every and any thing related to ESL in China.


Well thought out post.
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Lancy Bloom



Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 124
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't a personal blog. This is about how business people work. You don't pay to do a job. The person who contracts you pays a fee. In our case it is airfare which is a pittance when you look at how most people get jobs. Most people interview on line then they are flown to the company for another interview. Everything is paid by the future employer.
This is how it was in the past in EFL now the contracts are about employees paying breech penalties.
Let's get back to the real world. You can get fired whenever they want and you can leave whenever they want but you shouldn't pay to work.
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