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Chancellor



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joeysu wrote:
tttompatz thank you for your reply! i never thought about that route because i didnt know that was a choice for me. i will definitely read up on those sites that you recommended and hopefully be able to find something. will i be able to send them my CV and contact them directly then? thanks for opening up a totally different avenue for me. since i dont know anything about that i will definitely have to look through all of those sites carefully to see how to go about it since i am still very lost. thank you so much!
You would apply directly to the schools.
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Ixchel



Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 156
Location: The 7th level of hell

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are just a few schools per country. They receive thousands of applications per year and throw them in the trash. I sent out my CV to probably 50 of those schools when I was looking for a job until one person at a school took pity on me and explained the situation.

The only way to get a job is attend a job fair and have them meet you in person. There are hundreds and hundreds of applicants for each job. I went to two job fairs in two different states-one international and one for Latin America and got three jobs offers. Because of the economy and that fact that the overseas jobs pay pretty well it's extremely difficult to find a job.

There are way more jobs in ESL but the pay and conditions are not as good as the American and International schools unless you've got qualifications and experience.
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Chancellor



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ixchel wrote:
There are just a few schools per country. They receive thousands of applications per year and throw them in the trash. I sent out my CV to probably 50 of those schools when I was looking for a job until one person at a school took pity on me and explained the situation.

The only way to get a job is attend a job fair and have them meet you in person. There are hundreds and hundreds of applicants for each job. I went to two job fairs in two different states-one international and one for Latin America and got three jobs offers. Because of the economy and that fact that the overseas jobs pay pretty well it's extremely difficult to find a job.

There are way more jobs in ESL but the pay and conditions are not as good as the American and International schools unless you've got qualifications and experience.
Sorry, your information that "the only way to get a job is attend a job fair and have them meet you in person" is simply not true. While it is certainly advantageous to do so if you can, to state unequivocally that you can't get a job any other way flies in the face of those who have, in fact, received jobs in other ways (like applying directly to a school).
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thatsforsure



Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus, the "hundreds of applicants per opening" thing, if true, does not mean that candidates vastly outnumber jobs.

Imagine there are 100 schools and 100 job-seekers. Each job-seeker applies to each job. Each school then crows, "We had 100 applicants for one job!" Meanwhile, each applicant laments, "I applied for 100 jobs and got only one offer. Really tough going, mates! Choose another field ..."

But in the end, every applicant finds a job.
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Ixchel



Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 156
Location: The 7th level of hell

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chancellor wrote:
Ixchel wrote:
There are just a few schools per country. They receive thousands of applications per year and throw them in the trash. I sent out my CV to probably 50 of those schools when I was looking for a job until one person at a school took pity on me and explained the situation.

The only way to get a job is attend a job fair and have them meet you in person. There are hundreds and hundreds of applicants for each job. I went to two job fairs in two different states-one international and one for Latin America and got three jobs offers. Because of the economy and that fact that the overseas jobs pay pretty well it's extremely difficult to find a job.

There are way more jobs in ESL but the pay and conditions are not as good as the American and International schools unless you've got qualifications and experience.
Sorry, your information that "the only way to get a job is attend a job fair and have them meet you in person" is simply not true. While it is certainly advantageous to do so if you can, to state unequivocally that you can't get a job any other way flies in the face of those who have, in fact, received jobs in other ways (like applying directly to a school).

This was my (and two friends) experience in finding an elementary position overseas which is what the OP is looking for. I stand by what I said.
It took me two years to get 3 job offers. And every candidate does not find a job. Only a fraction of the people I met at job fairs got an offer. There were about 50 interviews per position. We were lined up in the hallways waiting for recruiters to finish interviews.

The world of American schools is vastly different from EFL.


You obviously didn't like my post but it's based on my own experiences so feel free to post your own experiences. Instead of arguing with me, tell us about your experiences and give the OP some help and advice.


Last edited by Ixchel on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:19 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Ixchel



Joined: 11 Mar 2003
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Location: The 7th level of hell

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double post
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should also check ISR internationalschoolsreview.com Great forum and blog, reviews of schools around the world, info about recruiting fairs and more.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ixchel wrote:
There are just a few schools per country. They receive thousands of applications per year and throw them in the trash. I sent out my CV to probably 50 of those schools when I was looking for a job until one person at a school took pity on me and explained the situation.

The only way to get a job is attend a job fair and have them meet you in person. There are hundreds and hundreds of applicants for each job. I went to two job fairs in two different states-one international and one for Latin America and got three jobs offers. Because of the economy and that fact that the overseas jobs pay pretty well it's extremely difficult to find a job.

There are way more jobs in ESL but the pay and conditions are not as good as the American and International schools unless you've got qualifications and experience.


A few schools per country? Do you mean American schools or international schools? Becuase speaking for Peru, Korea, and China, I can say there's more than "just a few schools". Big cities alone may have 5-10 international schools, American aren't the end all. French, Russian, German, Canadian, British, Jewish, Chinese, Korean, etc. are all examples of intl schools I've seen over the years.

Connections are also worth a lot, network via Dave's, linkedin, ISR and you'd be surprised. Flexibility is also an issue. You got three job offers, but maybe you had specific countries in mind. If you're more open, you can be offered a lot. A friend of mine went to one and was offered a job in central Asia, decent salary, house with maid, driver, etc. Why did they offer so much? Simply put they didn't have a lot of applicants that wanted to live there. Look at places like Argentina, thailand, Italy, teeming with peopel who want to go there. How about the 'stans? Or less popular countries?

Different experience as well if you go to a country that many people have never heard of much less could find on the map Smile

How about Kazahkstan? They are recruiting, look up NIS. 5K starting salary. There are a couple people here on Dave's working for them. All three of them have said it's by far the best experience they've had so far.
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Ixchel



Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 156
Location: The 7th level of hell

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:
Ixchel wrote:
There are just a few schools per country. They receive thousands of applications per year and throw them in the trash. I sent out my CV to probably 50 of those schools when I was looking for a job until one person at a school took pity on me and explained the situation.

The only way to get a job is attend a job fair and have them meet you in person. There are hundreds and hundreds of applicants for each job. I went to two job fairs in two different states-one international and one for Latin America and got three jobs offers. Because of the economy and that fact that the overseas jobs pay pretty well it's extremely difficult to find a job.

There are way more jobs in ESL but the pay and conditions are not as good as the American and International schools unless you've got qualifications and experience.


A few schools per country? Do you mean American schools or international schools? Becuase speaking for Peru, Korea, and China, I can say there's more than "just a few schools". Big cities alone may have 5-10 international schools, American aren't the end all. French, Russian, German, Canadian, British, Jewish, Chinese, Korean, etc. are all examples of intl schools I've seen over the years.

Connections are also worth a lot, network via Dave's, linkedin, ISR and you'd be surprised. Flexibility is also an issue. You got three job offers, but maybe you had specific countries in mind. If you're more open, you can be offered a lot. A friend of mine went to one and was offered a job in central Asia, decent salary, house with maid, driver, etc. Why did they offer so much? Simply put they didn't have a lot of applicants that wanted to live there. Look at places like Argentina, thailand, Italy, teeming with peopel who want to go there. How about the 'stans? Or less popular countries?

Different experience as well if you go to a country that many people have never heard of much less could find on the map Smile

How about Kazahkstan? They are recruiting, look up NIS. 5K starting salary. There are a couple people here on Dave's working for them. All three of them have said it's by far the best experience they've had so far.

I would have taken anything. As it was I ended up in Asuncion, Paraguay which pretty much counts as one of the less popular countries to put it mildly. The pay was excellent though and the cost of living low.

Since I'm a elementary teacher (with 3 credentials-including secondary which I rarely have used and a MA) and many years (24) experience and spent a long time trying to find a job overseas, any job, I know whereof I speak. If there are other elementary teachers on here who have attempted to find jobs in American/International schools then I'll accept their experiences but unless you've tried it you have no idea how tight the market is.

It's great to throw out ideas (Jewish schools etc. Very Happy but there aren't many jobs that I've seen in Russian and Jewish schools-none actually though they may exist and I imagine you must speak Russian, Hebrew, Chinese etc.)

The market for elementary and secondary teachers is far far tougher than EFL. That's why I tell fellow elementary teachers who want to go overseas to teach EFL instead.

It's a great gig teaching at American schools even in the least popular countries because the pay is excellent, housing is paid, you're part of a large expat community (even in obscure places) and everything is taken care of for you.
It's very different from teaching EFL (I did that in Korea) where the pay, conditions and benefits vary.

The best gig by far for elementary and secondary teachers in the US is the Dept of Defense but you have to apply a year in advance. And for some reason it's easier to get hired than at American schools. Everyone I knew who applied got accepted. I didn't want to go through the process, it's incredibly involved and long.
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Ixchel



Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 156
Location: The 7th level of hell

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:
Ixchel wrote:
There are just a few schools per country. They receive thousands of applications per year and throw them in the trash. I sent out my CV to probably 50 of those schools when I was looking for a job until one person at a school took pity on me and explained the situation.

The only way to get a job is attend a job fair and have them meet you in person. There are hundreds and hundreds of applicants for each job. I went to two job fairs in two different states-one international and one for Latin America and got three jobs offers. Because of the economy and that fact that the overseas jobs pay pretty well it's extremely difficult to find a job.

There are way more jobs in ESL but the pay and conditions are not as good as the American and International schools unless you've got qualifications and experience.


A few schools per country? Do you mean American schools or international schools? Becuase speaking for Peru, Korea, and China, I can say there's more than "just a few schools". Big cities alone may have 5-10 international schools, American aren't the end all. French, Russian, German, Canadian, British, Jewish, Chinese, Korean, etc. are all examples of intl schools I've seen over the years.

Connections are also worth a lot, network via Dave's, linkedin, ISR and you'd be surprised. Flexibility is also an issue. You got three job offers, but maybe you had specific countries in mind. If you're more open, you can be offered a lot. A friend of mine went to one and was offered a job in central Asia, decent salary, house with maid, driver, etc. Why did they offer so much? Simply put they didn't have a lot of applicants that wanted to live there. Look at places like Argentina, thailand, Italy, teeming with peopel who want to go there. How about the 'stans? Or less popular countries?

Different experience as well if you go to a country that many people have never heard of much less could find on the map Smile

How about Kazahkstan? They are recruiting, look up NIS. 5K starting salary. There are a couple people here on Dave's working for them. All three of them have said it's by far the best experience they've had so far.
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joeysu



Joined: 28 Nov 2012
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i so appreciate everyone's reply! it's giving me a lot to think about since i am really trying to figure it out. teaching abroad is something that i have always wanted to do but didnt have the opportunity to do it until now. i am pretty lined up on this end to do it in july when i finish my school year, however figuring out a way to do it will be my next step. since international schools seems to be maybe out of my league, american schools may be the route for me since my first concern is housing and having a large expat community for support. those are my top priority. pay will be second. at this point i'm not trying to make a career out of it since i do love my teaching job here. i'm looking to do it for maybe two years and get some world experience from it and live in a totally different country. being a female who is perhaps not too street smart is giving me some fears. safety is my number one concern. i dont need to be in a big city. i just want to be somewhere where there will be a large expat community and i can get by with only english. i guess i should do my research in american schools then and try to apply directly to the schools. however, my concern is just not knowing the neighborhood and community of the school beforehand. too bad i'm too late to try and apply for the military schools for this coming year.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11451
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joeysu wrote:
i have been teaching elementary school in USA for 14 years and love my job. i really want to experience living in another country and teach abroad.

and also wrote:
i really want to teach abroad in hopes that i will experience another culture and do what i love here in another country.

and wrote:
i really want to take a break from my current situation even though i love my job teaching kids here. i am making a really comfortable salary in the US so it's more than likely i'll come back. my school will keep my job for me if i return in two years time.

and wrote:
the only thing stopping me at this point is my own personal fears. i someone who always play it safe. being female and moving across the world alone to a country where i know not one soul is very scary for me and i know you are right in saying that i cannot believe in all the negativity.

and lastly wrote:
at this point i'm not trying to make a career out of it since i do love my teaching job here. i'm looking to do it for maybe two years and get some world experience from it and live in a totally different country. being a female who is perhaps not too street smart is giving me some fears. safety is my number one concern. i dont need to be in a big city. i just want to be somewhere where there will be a large expat community and i can get by with only english. i guess i should do my research in american schools then and try to apply directly to the schools. however, my concern is just not knowing the neighborhood and community of the school beforehand.

You really should re-read your posts; you sound like a broken record stuck on naiveté and not someone who can confidently lead a classroom in a foreign country (or in the US, for that matter). Frankly, overseas employers want teachers who are flexible, focused, and culturally aware and not travel newbies requiring handholding.

Seriously consider staying in the US at the job you say you love so much, and when you have free time, take vacations to diverse areas within the US. Then, maybe ten years from now, you'll be ready to take that first step.
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joeysu



Joined: 28 Nov 2012
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i may sound like a broken record stuck on naivete on a topic that i am just starting research on. you can make judgements on my lack of knowledge on this topic and i will agree with you. that is why i am seeking help from others who are more experienced. however, my naivete on obtaining a teaching job and housing in a foreign country has nothing to do with my ability to lead a classroom. year after year my students score top scores in a near 900 school and these kids are in a title 1 school. my focused dedication and confidence in my job is why i love teaching so much. however, loving my job in the US does not mean that i would not love it in a foreign country. Nor does it mean that i should just be satisfied with it and not explore anything else.

Thankfully my repetitive posts have brought me much information from many people who have given me a wealth of resources.

May the new year bring you much happiness Nomad Soul, seems like you really need it. Then maybe in ten years from now you'll be ready to take the first step in being nice instead of crabby.
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Chancellor



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ixchel wrote:
Chancellor wrote:
Ixchel wrote:
There are just a few schools per country. They receive thousands of applications per year and throw them in the trash. I sent out my CV to probably 50 of those schools when I was looking for a job until one person at a school took pity on me and explained the situation.

The only way to get a job is attend a job fair and have them meet you in person. There are hundreds and hundreds of applicants for each job. I went to two job fairs in two different states-one international and one for Latin America and got three jobs offers. Because of the economy and that fact that the overseas jobs pay pretty well it's extremely difficult to find a job.

There are way more jobs in ESL but the pay and conditions are not as good as the American and International schools unless you've got qualifications and experience.
Sorry, your information that "the only way to get a job is attend a job fair and have them meet you in person" is simply not true. While it is certainly advantageous to do so if you can, to state unequivocally that you can't get a job any other way flies in the face of those who have, in fact, received jobs in other ways (like applying directly to a school).

This was my (and two friends) experience in finding an elementary position overseas which is what the OP is looking for. I stand by what I said.
It took me two years to get 3 job offers. And every candidate does not find a job. Only a fraction of the people I met at job fairs got an offer. There were about 50 interviews per position. We were lined up in the hallways waiting for recruiters to finish interviews.

The world of American schools is vastly different from EFL.


You obviously didn't like my post but it's based on my own experiences so feel free to post your own experiences. Instead of arguing with me, tell us about your experiences and give the OP some help and advice.
I'm simply saying that your experience isn't universal. I applied for a job at an IBO school in Nigeria through a teacher job board I subscribe to, received an interview (that was conducted over Skype) on a Saturday and, the following Monday, was offered the job.
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Chancellor



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joeysu wrote:
i may sound like a broken record stuck on naivete on a topic that i am just starting research on. you can make judgements on my lack of knowledge on this topic and i will agree with you. that is why i am seeking help from others who are more experienced. however, my naivete on obtaining a teaching job and housing in a foreign country has nothing to do with my ability to lead a classroom. year after year my students score top scores in a near 900 school and these kids are in a title 1 school. my focused dedication and confidence in my job is why i love teaching so much. however, loving my job in the US does not mean that i would not love it in a foreign country. Nor does it mean that i should just be satisfied with it and not explore anything else.

Thankfully my repetitive posts have brought me much information from many people who have given me a wealth of resources.

May the new year bring you much happiness Nomad Soul, seems like you really need it. Then maybe in ten years from now you'll be ready to take the first step in being nice instead of crabby.
Look for specific schools and start putting in applications. If there's a job fair you can go to, go to it. Submit your resume to teacher job boards like learn4good (http://www.learn4good.com/jobs/).
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