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Contract and Salary negotiation

 
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ihatewinter



Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:39 pm    Post subject: Contract and Salary negotiation Reply with quote

Hi all - after a mid-life crisis, I've decided to teach EFL. CELTA and TESL are done and I have a B.Ed, B.Sc and MSc. under my belt from the 1980's. (yes - from the dark ages....)

I've noted that most salaries are posted on job sites when positions are advertised, however, when it comes down to the interview, there seems to be no room for negotiation. Yes, I'm new to the field, but I have loads of transferable experience, B.Ed., CELTA and a non-related Masters.

Perhaps it's been where I've been applying - Japan, China and Indonesia.

Or is this just the norm - no salary negotiation? I was hoping to see a bit of 'wiggle room,' sell potential employers on my 'maturity,' and didn't really want to start over at the bottom of the pay grid....

Thoughts?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 2986
Location: Mesopotamia

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: Contract and Salary negotiation Reply with quote

ihatewinter wrote:
I've noted that most salaries are posted on job sites when positions are advertised, however, when it comes down to the interview, there seems to be no room for negotiation. Yes, I'm new to the field, but I have loads of transferable experience, B.Ed., CELTA and a non-related Masters.

Or is this just the norm - no salary negotiation? I was hoping to see a bit of 'wiggle room,' sell potential employers on my 'maturity,' and didn't really want to start over at the bottom of the pay grid....

What exactly do those "loads of transferable experience" entail? Why not try to negotiate based on that (whatever it is) versus something like "maturity" which doesn't seem to impress employers enough to pay you more. Frankly, it comes down to experience. That is, minimal to no experience = minimal pay.
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ihatewinter



Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair point.

I agree on this - no 'in classroom' ESL experience..... Just 6 months of substitute teaching while doing part-time CELTA over a 3 month period.

But - 10 years of selling software and doing training for said software in the corporate marketplace. Not ESL experience, I agree. Software training in the end is teacher focused and not participatory. So, I've had a learning curve on that one and have conquered it.

The best part - I have an incredible ability to build rapport and instill confidence in my students.

That's the experience I'm trying to sell...

The question still comes down to the employer's willingnes to negotiate. Is this out of the question with them?
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tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bottom line:

If you are applying for entry level positions then you get entry level wages.

Land, prove yourself, network and move up.

In Asia it is not so much a case of what you know but who you know and even more importantly, who knows you.

As an unknown and you are worth bottom dollar. Prove yourself, get a great reputation, fill classrooms and you become the selling point. Then you can command top money.

This AIN'T Kansas there Toto.

.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 2986
Location: Mesopotamia

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ihatewinter wrote:
The best part - I have an incredible ability to build rapport and instill confidence in my students. That's the experience I'm trying to sell...

Okay, but so do a lot of other applicants, including those competing against you for those jobs. My point is, building rapport and instilling confidence in others is not likely to be high on an employer's wish list.

But back to your question about negotiating. Remember that you're dealing with other cultures, expectations, and ways of doing things. To that end, don't hold your breath expecting the employer to negotiate salary or benefits with you for an entry-level position. Your focus should be on showing you've got what it takes during your first year of teaching---that's more sellable to an employer.

You say you have sales experience in a corporate environment. Depending on the teaching situation and language services the potential employer provides, why not sell the idea of teaching business English or English for salespeople?
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ihatewinter



Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exacatamundo! (is that English???)

And that's the area I want to grow into. I know I can do it, I just need to prove it..... Cool
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking from Japan, don't expect any salary negotiations.

It's just not done most of the time.
The market here is flooded, so if you don't like the job/salary, there are 100-200 other people behind you in like who will take it (and far less money).

You really don't have any outstanding qualifications to offer in Japan, certainly nothing that most other newbies have. Please don't imagine that "10 years of selling software and doing training for said software in the corporate marketplace" means anything when it comes to teaching a foreign language in a foreign land. It doesn't.

Building rapport is not something one can measure, and if you have only 6 months of it (where?), it won't count for anything. Your students were not language learners, and they probably weren't foreigners. Seriously think of the difference.

As tttompatz wrote, you apply for entry level jobs, so expect entry level wages. Nothing more.

If you applied to business English agencies, where your corporate experience might be more suitable because you know the field and jargon/terminology, then perhaps you could negotiate a little more, but I don't think so, at least not in Japan. The biz English agencies already take that into account.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 11710
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Negotiations about salary are simply NOT DONE in the Middle East.
AND they expect to see teaching experience and PROOF therof !!

Why not try China ?
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3206

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Exacatamundo! (is that English???)
As English as "correctamundo".

Quote:
Why not try China ?


That's your best bet, negotiating is EXPECTED! (Not really, but I've always done it and it's almost always worked; give a little, take a little.)
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Mr. English



Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 245
Location: Guangzhou, China

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In China you can certainly negotiate, but you have to be here. From your first post and the list of countries you are applying to I gather you are back in the states, or wherever, emailing applications. Face-to-face means you are ready to begin work tomorrow and if they need you they just might pay more.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 11710
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think trying long distance just does not work in some places. Personal touch etc. Take a chance. Choose a place, go as a visitor and look around !
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