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Turning down ridiculous job offers
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Dancebiscuits



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Turning down ridiculous job offers Reply with quote

Can anyone give me some advice on how to politely turn down job offers but actually be honest about why? I've been applying to many positions in Italy, Turkey, Thailand and Spain and several of them offer perfectly reasonable T&Cs....
... But then sometimes you get a school that puts you through 3 interviews, contacts your references etc, and at the end announce they pay 800 Euros a month, no flights, no accommodation help, 35 hours a week in split-shifts etc. Sigh. I feel if these sort of places are advertising for teachers with CELTAs, years of experience and degrees, someone needs to start telling them that their offers are ridiculous.

Or does one simply say 'thanks but no thanks' and leave it at that?
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3135

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simply say "thanks but no thanks" and leave it at that...and move on.

Good luck in your search and may you find something suitable!

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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White ice



Joined: 28 Aug 2012
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely you can simply say,

Thank you for the offer but the package you have offered is not good enough.
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Dancebiscuits



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers! I've actually found a couple that are fine and am looking forward to heading off back to Italy Smile
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9318
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
... But then sometimes you get a school that puts you through 3 interviews, contacts your references etc, and at the end announce they pay 800 Euros a month, no flights, no accommodation help, 35 hours a week in split-shifts etc. Sigh. I feel if these sort of places are advertising for teachers with CELTAs, years of experience and degrees, someone needs to start telling them that their offers are ridiculous.


Today's Southern European economy; it's not so ridiculous, actually!
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1207

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Today's Southern European economy; it's not so ridiculous, actually!


Thing is, if costs were on a par with the state of the economy, it wouldn't be so bad. But Italy is one of the most expensive places to live (whether you're in the south or north pretty much) and €800 per month is peanuts.

To put it into perspective. I asked a guy I know here how his son is doing. (I briefly taught his son when he was a pupil at the Tech school here.) His son has landed a three year contract, and a monthly net salary of €1300. Not bad for a kid of 19, living at home, and not paying much in the way of rent or food.

€1300! I could weep. By the time my (freelance) earnings have been taxed in half, mortgage deductions taken out, I earn less take-home pay than a 19 year old mechanic.

So, yes, €800 pcm is scandalous.
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1207

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway, @dancebiscuits, it looks like you've got something decent, but for future reference, save time by:

a) insisting on knowing the package before you jump through hoops
Everyone is going to say their salary etc is competitive, but it's complete BS unless they can tell you - upfront and in plain English - how much they're going to pay.

b) never being strung along by people who refuse to put their cards on the table
They're the employer, they know the budget, and they know how much they can move up or down. Don't be suckered into saying how much you want or were paid in a previous position unless you have a good idea of what their pay scales are.

c) understanding that cheap employers will behave cheaply to you all the way through your relationship
If they try and diddle you on pay, or try to string you along throughout the recruitment process, or say the initial pay scale is only initial and after a few months it gets reviewed, sharpen up those BS antennas. Cheap potential employers don't morph overnight into reasonable actual employers. They remain cheap.
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Qaaolchoura



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 539
Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found that at least in Turkey when a school offers ridiculously low pay, the other parts of working for them promise to be equally ridiculous (the hours you mentioned, but the management skills of the managers you didn't), and I simply tell them I'm not interested and never speak to them again.

Teacher in Rome wrote:
Quote:
Today's Southern European economy; it's not so ridiculous, actually!


Thing is, if costs were on a par with the state of the economy, it wouldn't be so bad. But Italy is one of the most expensive places to live (whether you're in the south or north pretty much) and €800 per month is peanuts.

<- snip ->

So, yes, €800 pcm is scandalous.

800 euros comes to less than 1900 lira, which makes it a low offer even for Turkey.

~Q
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Dancebiscuits



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, chaps! I've been politely saying 'I'm very sorry but, on the salary your school offers, I can't find any suitable accommodation' and being hit with a buttload of abuse in return. I give up, frankly, and am going to Asia where they pay a wage that reflects the cost of living.
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ones behaving like this are doing so because they can get away with it. The best opportunities exist for the most qualified and those with specific experience and skills. However, the competition is cutthroat. It's sometimes been my experience, and not just in TEFL, that the ones who ask for the most, offer the least. And you're supposed to be grateful for their measly offer. I'd be tempted to give them a piece of my mind, but probably moving on is for the best.

Hope it works out, Dancebiscuits, for you in Italy. Ah, I see you're going for Asia instead.
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Jessiemiles



Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 49
Location: Home

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dancebiscuits, if I think negotiating is pointless and have no intention of taking the job, I say 'thank you, but I'm unable to accept the offer.'

Shifty and cheap employers know that they're shifty and cheap and I don't feel I need to spend any energy once I've decided to walk away.

I received two very low offers this year from schools in Saudi Arabia but ended up taking a third offer I am quite content with in the end.

Good luck in Asia Smile
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 305

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

White ice wrote:
Surely you can simply say,

Thank you for the offer, but the package you have offered is not good enough.





Short. Simple. Effective. Nicely gets the point across without belaboring it.

.
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 915
Location: Home

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are being overly polite here. In pretty much all other professions, people turn down contracts because they know another employer will pay more. What’s more, there’s no offence in telling an employer this. IT and engineering contractors, for example, in Europe will be paid over €50 an hour, and that will be paid for a forty- to fifty-hour week with no travelling or preparation time. And sadly, we’re not talking geniuses here. Some of the engineering contractors I’ve worked with can’t even write or spell and are doing no more than going through the motions every day. The common or garden TEFLer does a much more complex job than some of these people.

Also, bear in mind school owners in Europe are invariably rich. In not all but most cases, they are offering nothing in terms of support or training but rake in a hefty profit from the teachers’ good work. They will be the ones retiring in their early fifties with the houses and the cars. So, without being impolite, I would certainly leave these schools in no doubt as to why their offers are unacceptable. I would also suggest to them a realistic salary which you could survive on.
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3231

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We are being overly polite here


I was a little confused by the topic when I saw it. If the job offer is THAT bad, the employer knows it. I'm not saying you should be rude, but a simple "I don't think I'm right for this position" will suffice.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9318
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but a simple "I don't think I'm right for this position" will suffice.


Oh, I wouldn't hesitate to say that they pay for the job simply won't work for me. Why leave them in doubt?

I had to tell a European school once a few years back that, while I would sincerely have liked to take the position they'd offered, I simply couldn't afford to do so.
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