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Narcissistic students and EFL classrooms?
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8641
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Narcissistic students and EFL classrooms? Reply with quote

Interesting article on US students. Perhaps comparisons or contrasts can be made with our situations in EFL?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20756247


Last edited by Sashadroogie on Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"You need to believe that you can go out and do something but that's not the same as thinking that you're great,"

This is about the only real point I could find that fits EFL students.

The rest about narcissism make me feel like the researchers said about such people -- pity.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8641
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose we could widen the comparisons to teachers in EFL, not just students.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 11728
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When does "self-confidence" become "arrogance" ? 'Pride goeth before a fall,' as we read in Scripture !
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12057
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sasha,

Could this be called the MEMEME meme? Very Happy

Regards,
John
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golsa



Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Narcissistic students? Reply with quote

The only narcissists I've encountered during my one year TEFLing have been westerners and westernized Asians. Then again, I spent most of the last year working in villages in Georgia. Villages and their associated traditional lifestyles are built around a culture of character, which results in people who are the exact opposite of narcissists.

Having spent the last year among the least narcissistic people I've ever really changed my life and world view. It's now quite jarring to associate with many westerners.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8641
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat

I suppose so - why not?

Anyway, the thread title has been altered to allow for parallels to be made between the descriptions of the college students in the article, and our own experiences both with EFL students and colleagues.

I am struck by the close similarity of the article's description of college students to some of my American colleagues who took various EFL-related courses. They had no doubt that they were indeed the greatest, and went so far as to publicly express this - much to the distaste of the various other peoples on the courses. That their final results didn't measure up to their claims did not dent their self-image one bit. So, perhaps the main idea of the article is correct: self-confidence alone is no guarantee of success.

Another point surprised me, perhaps revealing my own biases:

"Our culture used to encourage modesty and humility and not bragging about yourself," says Twenge. "It was considered a bad thing to be seen as conceited or full of yourself."

This is certainly news to me. Can any of our US posters confirm or deny the above? If it is true, when did the situation change so dramatically?

Hic!
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3260
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
"Our culture used to encourage modesty and humility and not bragging about yourself," says Twenge. "It was considered a bad thing to be seen as conceited or full of yourself."

This is certainly news to me. Can any of our US posters confirm or deny the above? If it is true, when did the situation change so dramatically?

Hic!


never changed, never will....but you should substitute "generation" for "culture."

now git offa ma'lawn, ya dang hooligans!
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12057
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sasha,

"The Modesty Manifesto
Over the past half century, America has moved from a culture of self-effacement to a culture of self-expression. But now the cultural tide is turning again. Are we citizens engaged in a national enterprise, or are we individuals? It’s time to rediscover the power of humility.

Speakers: David Brooks"


http://www.aspenideas.org/session/modesty-manifesto#colorbox=transcript


"Herein lies a picture of this shift. Kids today are growing up after the shift occurred.

Fifty years ago, when someone accomplished something great, it was generally against a backdrop of responsibility and duty; there was an ethos of humility; it was commonly said, “I’m no hero. I only did was I was supposed to do.” Parents would tell their children to not “get too big for their britches.” In fact, when George H. W. Bush (the senior president) spoke one time, he asked his mother how he was doing. She simply responded, “You’re talking too much about yourself.”

Today, that’s all politicians do.

Consider how the shift has happened. In 1950, a Gallup Poll asked high school students: Do you think you are an important person? That year, only 12% of students responded “yes.” The same question was asked in 2006 and over 80% of teens replied “yes.” Since 1970, we’ve absolutely bought into the idea that “self love” and high self-esteem are among our highest priorities. In 1962 there were no articles on self-esteem in any educational journals. In 1992, there were more than 2,500 articles in such journals. Fifty years ago, American students were among the best in the world at math. Today, we come in somewhere around 28th worldwide, yet still come in first in our estimation of how great we are in math. More U.S. students believe “I am very good in math” than any other country on the earth. So, while we’re far from the best, we still believe we are. We’re awesome."

http://growingleaders.com/blog/the-lost-art-of-modesty-and-humility/

Yes, I'm proud to say that we were more humble back in MY day.
Very Happy

Regards,
John
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8641
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat

It must be hard to be humble.... Very Happy


Best wishes

Sasha
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12057
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sasha,

Of COURSE it is - that's why I'm so proud of my humility Very Happy .

Regards.
Modest John
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sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The graph shows that, among the five areas, students are least confident in their writing... I guess that means that there will always be work for English teachers on some level. Smile
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8641
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat

At bottom, you're a top geezer!


Best wishes

Sasha
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
"Our culture used to encourage modesty and humility and not bragging about yourself," says Twenge. "It was considered a bad thing to be seen as conceited or full of yourself."

This is certainly news to me. Can any of our US posters confirm or deny the above? If it is true, when did the situation change so dramatically?
Note the victory dances that football players do when they score a touchdown. You didn't see that sort of thing years ago. Note the look of "I beat you, suckers" on the faces of Olympic winners now instead of "I'm exhausted but so happy and surprised I won" look from years ago. Notice the plethora of Christmas displays now compared to before, and the competition to be better and better, instead of the humble decorations indoors from ages ago. Note the higher profile of actors and actresses today, not to mention their soapbox speech-making at the Oscars, compared to their more reserved nature and "Thanks, Mom and my agent" speeches of yore. I know friends who complain about the little league attitude of parents who feel their kids should be treated better and shown more favorable treatment, regardless of their ability.

Yup, more bragging and mememe nowadays.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 11728
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Against my better judgement, i found myself watching one of those endless programmes about buying and selling houses on Brit TV today. Prize for horror clients was a pair whose sole ambition was to buy a house (in Balham !!!!!!!) that would make friends and colleagues JEALOUS !

MEMEME to a new level !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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