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Oh My God
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 273
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 Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| VietCanada wrote: |
| kurtz wrote: |
| I'm sorry Vietcanada that your working life is so poor. Am I to believe you have 10+ years of experience and you're subjecting yourself to those sort of conditions? |
Why on Earth would you think I'm talking about myself? I am reporting what I've seen and heard newbies endure in this country. That's not me as you pointed out. |
And this is the REAL truth, There are well-paid positions in Saigon, but they're few and they're far between! Usually there's admin hours and a position of partial responsibility in the organization (not always). And some tasty tid-bit bene's as part of the negotiations, VN love to "let's make a deal" bargain with you and barter a bit too.
Soooo, You're smart enough to keep your business to yourself so that you're able to keep that little corner of market small for themselves.  |
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TimkinMS
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Question of the original poster: Is Vietnam competitive?
It is competitive:
People in the early to mid 20s who will work for low wages because they cannot find work in the West. Primarily the US and the UK.
These....are the people you're competing with.
And yes.....the schools know this.
Pay is low and going lower. Conditions are not good and getting worse.
Enjoy. |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| VietCanada wrote: |
| kurtz wrote: |
| I'm sorry Vietcanada that your working life is so poor. Am I to believe you have 10+ years of experience and you're subjecting yourself to those sort of conditions? |
Why on Earth would you think I'm talking about myself? I am reporting what I've seen and heard newbies endure in this country. That's not me as you pointed out. |
Why on earth indeed; perhaps it's got something to do with the fact you often write heartfelt tales of woe about the Vietnamese totally taking advantage of teacher, most of whom probably shouldn't be here at all, to the point of it being slave labour. Now why would someone do that if they weren't themselves in that boat?
While it's good of you to not talk Vietnam up as a wonderful EFL destination, it's not THAT bad. I've done OK for myself up north, a place which I think has the edge over Saigon, employment wise at least. |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| TimkinMS wrote: |
Question of the original poster: Is Vietnam competitive?
It is competitive:
People in the early to mid 20s who will work for low wages because they cannot find work in the West. Primarily the US and the UK.
These....are the people you're competing with.
And yes.....the schools know this.
Pay is low and going lower. Conditions are not good and getting worse.
Enjoy. |
What's your point of reference for a place that IS competitive? We need some comparisons, don't we? |
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Durian Tango
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 65
Location: HCMC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:28 am Post subject: |
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Is it safe to say there is a surplus of teachers in HCMC right now (or in general I should say) compared to the amount of work available? I don't mean grunge work, but decent to good quality teaching gigs?
If an advertisement is posted for a job at ILA for example, will teachers be cutting each other's throats to get the job or will ILA be begging for someone to fill it? Or is it somewhere in between with 5-15 reasonable applicants applying for a reasonable job? |
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TimkinMS
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| kurtz wrote: |
| TimkinMS wrote: |
Question of the original poster: Is Vietnam competitive?
It is competitive:
People in the early to mid 20s who will work for low wages because they cannot find work in the West. Primarily the US and the UK.
These....are the people you're competing with.
And yes.....the schools know this.
Pay is low and going lower. Conditions are not good and getting worse.
Enjoy. |
What's your point of reference for a place that IS competitive? We need some comparisons, don't we? |
A point of reference to different places/countries?
A point of reference to different time periods in the past?
I can shed light on both. This is only my opinion but most agree with me.
There is "competition" everywhere in the world, in any industry.
My comments on EFL in Vietnam are referring to the influx of recent Uni grads who've come to teach EFL in Saigon for at least 2 reasons:
1. They cannot find gainful employment b/c of the lack of jobs for their age group (unemployment is indeed dreadfully high).
2. It's become more popular and acceptable to go abroad for a year or two after graduating from University.
There are more teachers in HCMC competing for teaching jobs. Supply and demand.
I don't mean to sound too dour or negative, but this has caused changes in the EFL teaching market, understandably.
I can compare other countries where I've taught, but that was in the past and it would be an "apples and oranges" comparison.
The market has also changed/evolved/developed - whatever you want to call it in recent years.
It's mostly Kid's classes with some test prep and some corporates.
GE for teens and adults is down and will likely remain so.
It's a market. Time change.
Hope I don't sound negative, but things are a lot tighter. I'm content and do the classes I want but I've witnessed the changes. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Durian Tango wrote: |
Is it safe to say there is a surplus of teachers in HCMC right now (or in general I should say) compared to the amount of work available? I don't mean grunge work, but decent to good quality teaching gigs?
If an advertisement is posted for a job at ILA for example, will teachers be cutting each other's throats to get the job or will ILA be begging for someone to fill it? Or is it somewhere in between with 5-15 reasonable applicants applying for a reasonable job? |
According to management at Apollo that I've talked with there is a surplus of teachers. So many in fact that they just can't give anyone good hours. That means 20 hours a week at around $16 an hour net.
$1200 a month. Pretty standard here. Housing will eat about 4-5 hundred of that. Do the math. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| kurtz wrote: |
| VietCanada wrote: |
| kurtz wrote: |
| I'm sorry Vietcanada that your working life is so poor. Am I to believe you have 10+ years of experience and you're subjecting yourself to those sort of conditions? |
Why on Earth would you think I'm talking about myself? I am reporting what I've seen and heard newbies endure in this country. That's not me as you pointed out. |
Why on earth indeed; perhaps it's got something to do with the fact you often write heartfelt tales of woe about the Vietnamese totally taking advantage of teacher, most of whom probably shouldn't be here at all, to the point of it being slave labour. Now why would someone do that if they weren't themselves in that boat?
While it's good of you to not talk Vietnam up as a wonderful EFL destination, it's not THAT bad. I've done OK for myself up north, a place which I think has the edge over Saigon, employment wise at least. |
Yes, I don't want to talk it up. I haven't done that badly myself down south. I have contacts and get calls or e-mails with job offers at an almost weekly rate.
You mention people who shouldn't be here at all. Good point. Anyone who thinks this is a place to just drop in and they will make a good income and save money shouldn't be here. Especially if they have no experience teaching EFL. Vietnam is much more demanding than most countries. This is a place for experienced teachers not newbs. Experienced at job hunting in foreign countries and experienced at teaching.
I know nothing about Hanoi except most tourists I've met hate it with a passion. They seem to think that Hanoi dislikes foreigners except as crime victims. I'm sure you can set that record straight. |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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@Tim Fair enough comments. If one is to browse the other forums, it would appear that the same levels of discontent are found world-wide.
@Vietncanada. Hanoi certainly isn't for everyone. However, once the locals accept you, your life can be pretty good. I hazard a guess the teaching opportunities are better too. I do feel you're being a little too negative. Perhaps you rode the easy Korea gravy train for too long. Having many contacts and job offers doesn't mean much if you have to work 12 hour days to make a crust.
For the suitably qualified, Vietnam can be a good deal. For those who don't have much of a CV or experience, or those who don't want to teach young learners, enter at your own risk. Make sure you have funds to escape if you feel like you're being taken advantage of. |
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sigmoid
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1276
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| For the suitably qualified, Vietnam can be a good deal. |
In what way? How do you define "a good deal"?
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| However, once the locals accept you, your life can be pretty good. |
Again, details please. What do you have to do to be accepted? What happens after that, that makes your life "pretty good"? |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| I didn't much like Hanoi, but that was more due to the traffic, noise, and pollution. I thought the locals were quite friendly. And the crime rate in Hanoi is low compared to Saigon... |
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I'm With Stupid
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| The thing I liked most about Hanoi is that when you ask someone something in Vietnamese, they actually answer you in Vietnamese, rather than immediately speaking English, or worse, getting the calculator out. Refreshing. |
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I'm With Stupid
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| VietCanada wrote: |
| $1200 a month. Pretty standard here. Housing will eat about 4-5 hundred of that. Do the math. |
$4-500? Where the hell do you live? |
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BenE
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 321
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm With Stupid wrote: |
| VietCanada wrote: |
| $1200 a month. Pretty standard here. Housing will eat about 4-5 hundred of that. Do the math. |
$4-500? Where the hell do you live? |
That price for housing is spot on for Hanoi. We pay $480 for a 1 bedroom flat in Hanoi. Yes we could find cheaper or have the joy and pleasure of sharing with other teachers here but I'm with my wife.
I'm surprised that $1200 is considered a standard wage for Vietnam....I'd say that the wages here in Hanoi are considerably higher for the person with a year or two's experience. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| BenE wrote: |
| I'm With Stupid wrote: |
| VietCanada wrote: |
| $1200 a month. Pretty standard here. Housing will eat about 4-5 hundred of that. Do the math. |
$4-500? Where the hell do you live? |
That price for housing is spot on for Hanoi. We pay $480 for a 1 bedroom flat in Hanoi. Yes we could find cheaper or have the joy and pleasure of sharing with other teachers here but I'm with my wife.
I'm surprised that $1200 is considered a standard wage for Vietnam....I'd say that the wages here in Hanoi are considerably higher for the person with a year or two's experience. |
It is. "Standard" in the bigger cities like Hanoi and Saigon is about $2000 per month. $1200 is probably standard for the smaller cities and the bottom-of-the-barrel language mills in the bigger cities. |
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