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What is with all the "Fired" posts?
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

salaries in Korea are catching up to Japan as well. Throw in housing and hogwons pay as well as their peers in Japan. Throw in cost of living factor, and money is better in Korea.

So basically I'm just agreeing with what Kiwiboy and gadfly said.
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Catalina



Joined: 11 May 2003
Location: Bella Italia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thegadfly wrote:
The fact remains that if you are in a bad teaching situation here and have airfare home, you can leave. End of story. Beyond that, even bad contracts are still pretty good, really. As a professional in Korea, I am free to negotiate my own contract based on my own abilities -- my pay is not madated by a union, which I definitely prefer. I can take care of myself, and I do not feel a need to donate a portion of my pay an organization so that it can take care of "professionals" that can not take care of themselves. There are legal means to redress issues when an employer behaves in an illegal manner -- there are already things that can be done, no need to make a union to do the same things and eat more money....


Interesting....

While I agree that it behooves each of us to take care of ourselves and that we should all be hard negotiators I don't think that can be the reality. Can a union change that - probably no (sigh!). Can standards in this industry change that - probably yes.

Ideally the goal of a union would be strength in numbers. So, that the dude in Kwang-ju gets the same treatment as the dudette in Seoul. Levelling the playing field and ending the survival of the fittest mentality, thus not leaving individuals open to ill-treatment. A union/standards body might also work in a preventative way - identifying problems and means of resolution before issues arise again and again ad naseum. Whereas individuals are generally reactive - only addressing a problem after it happens to them.

I know even bad contracts can be good. But bad contracts that are not followed and are not enforcable are useless. And then what happens? Suffer for 6 months for the airfare? Post a fired thread on Dave's?Midnight run?

I recently read that South Korea had the worst Labour Relations in Asia - coming behind the Phillipines and Indonesia. Labour realtions here are characterized as hostile and unproductive.

So, it's tough out here for English Teachers in Korea. After working in labour relations in my home country I feel pretty ill-equipped to deal with some of the stuff I see here. Then there are the cultural differences. And, loath as I am to play the gender card, I think it is worth considering that woman are treated differently than men in this industry, this making negotiation sometimes more difficult.

As for legal means for redress when things go wrong I would urge caution in offering this as a viable solution. Many, many people, faced with a long, expensive and difficult legal challenge and walking away empty handed will walk. I can speak from experience on this. I recently had a fight with the employer - just received my final pay and have alot of "odd deductions" off it and have discovered a discrepancy between labour law, immigration law and administrative (contract) law in this country. Will I battle it out in court? Highly unlikely. Which means that every person who encounters it in the future will learn as I did - I cannot afford to challenge the system. And I wonder how many people have had similar problems that they could not afford to "fix"?

Catalina
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats exactly it. They simply cancel your visa and give you a 2 week exit order. Without the money you're owed, or time to pursue things in the courts, all you can do is walk.
More and more I'm realising how unwise it is to ever trust a Korean boss....which kinda justifies us doing runners etc whenever we feel like it. Look aftyer no.1!!!
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to do a Mankind here.


NO YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!! GO TO THE LABOUR BOARD THEY WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU!!!!!!!!!!


IT DOESN EVEN MATTER IF YOU ARE ILLEGAL!!!! IT IS PERFECTLY FINE


HAND
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TECO



Joined: 20 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thegadfly wrote:
There are legal means to redress issues when an employer behaves in an illegal manner...


This has to be one of the funniest comments I've seen on the Korean forum.
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