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How easy are uni jobs to come by, are they really that good?
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philinkorea



Joined: 27 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 1:32 am    Post subject: How easy are uni jobs to come by, are they really that good? Reply with quote

I'm just finishing off my contract now at a hagwan. its been a cool year. i am thinking i may attempt a second year in korea. a friend mentioned to me about working at universities that you can get paid the same wage while working about 15 hours a week and having about 3 months paid vacation. its sounds ridiculous. is this really the deal and how do you get these positions
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kimcheeking
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 months is very short vacation. Most universities that I am aware of offer 4+ months of vacation for anywhere from 12-20 hours with 15 or 16 being the average.

how to get them, apply. Most ask for a Masters degree in anything. Of course applicants with related degrees will be preferred. Knowing someone at the university goes a long way as well. It is possible for BA holders to get university jobs, but it is much more difficult so you better be a cut about the rest.

good luck.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i spoke to my friend who happens to be a recruiter today. She said she used to advertise Univ. job vacancies, but stopped because each time she got over 5-600 email replies. These jobs are in demand. So just apply direct to the university.
Secondly i heard its usually a case of Americans and Canadians preferred.
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kimcheeking
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapier wrote:
Secondly i heard its usually a case of Americans and Canadians preferred.


depends on the university. Where I work we have Canadians, Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Irish, & British.
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Real Reality



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Foreign professors tend to be treated as hired hands, without academic standing, and lacking the possibility of career advancement or tenure.They must submit to yearly contracts (compensated at a rate only 60 percent of their Korean peers) while walled off from the permanent Korean faculty who benefit from travel, research funding, sabbaticals, etc. Moreover, when hundreds of Korean scholars enjoy such perks at American and other foreign universities, something is obviously amiss.

According to the Samsung Group's chairman, Lee Kun-hee, to succeed globally, Korea must forgo the thought that Korea and being Korean is superior, and foreign specialists must be treated with respect.
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200206/14/200206142349223599900090109011.html
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Real Reality wrote:
Foreign professors tend to be treated as hired hands, without academic standing, and lacking the possibility of career advancement or tenure.They must submit to yearly contracts (compensated at a rate only 60 percent of their Korean peers) while walled off from the permanent Korean faculty who benefit from travel, research funding, sabbaticals, etc. Moreover, when hundreds of Korean scholars enjoy such perks at American and other foreign universities, something is obviously amiss.

According to the Samsung Group's chairman, Lee Kun-hee, to succeed globally, Korea must forgo the thought that Korea and being Korean is superior, and foreign specialists must be treated with respect.
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200206/14/200206142349223599900090109011.html


You continually bring this up but continually fail to mention qualifications. Most foreigners working in Korean universities haven't reached the academic level required to be considered for tenue while Korean scholars working abroad have met the academic requirements needed to qualify for tenure in universities outside of Korea.
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the_beaver



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted about finding a job in a Korean University some time back (here). Follow that info and you'll be in pretty good shape.

University can be a pretty good gig (I don't think I'd consider working anywhere else). Often more or equivalent money and generally fewer hours, more vacation, and better students than hagwons.

On a related note. . .

I was talking with my director the other day and she was telling me about the rejects (not her word, mine) who were applying for jobs. She got into an argument with one applicant, several people complained that there were no interviews on weekends, one applicant told my director that she was too negative, a good chunk of the applicants handed in crap for a resume and cover letter. Overall, although she didn't say it exactly like this, many of the applicants were presenting themselves as: "I'm white. I'm a native speaker. Give me a job."

If you do try to get a job at a university dress up and prepare and set yourself apart from the rejects.
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kimcheeking
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The teacher coordinators at my job told me the same thing as what the beaver just said.
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Len8



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was talking to a foreign Chinese teacher at our university who was being given the cold shoulder by one of the Korean Chinese professors. When I asked her why she said she refused to write a paper for the professor unless she could have her name added as one of the contributors. This wasn't to correct an existing paper like the one's we get from our Korean English teachers, but was an assignment to write the paper completely on her own.
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Kwangjuchicken



Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord wrote:
Real Reality wrote:
Foreign professors tend to be treated as hired hands, without academic standing, and lacking the possibility of career advancement or tenure.They must submit to yearly contracts (compensated at a rate only 60 percent of their Korean peers) while walled off from the permanent Korean faculty who benefit from travel, research funding, sabbaticals, etc. Moreover, when hundreds of Korean scholars enjoy such perks at American and other foreign universities, something is obviously amiss.

According to the Samsung Group's chairman, Lee Kun-hee, to succeed globally, Korea must forgo the thought that Korea and being Korean is superior, and foreign specialists must be treated with respect.
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200206/14/200206142349223599900090109011.html




You continually bring this up but continually fail to mention qualifications. Most foreigners working in Korean universities haven't reached the academic level required to be considered for tenue while Korean scholars working abroad have met the academic requirements needed to qualify for tenure in universities outside of Korea.



First let me state that every EFL teacher with whom I have worked in Korea have been fantastic teachers regardless of degrees and/or majors.

That said, now I can add to this topic. I am into my fifth year teaching in Korea. For 2 years in one college, for 2 years in another college and now in a university. At each of my schools, all foreign teachers (BA-PhD) have been treated equal (for better or for worse) and we all are given the same contract.

As for myself, I hold a BA in French, an MA in French, an MATESOL and a PhD in Foreign and Second Language Education. One of my best friends at my previous college holds a BA in Religion. We both were hired the same day, worked there for 2 years and always had the same contracts.

Well, got to run now, just wanted to point out that no matter the "qualifications", all EFL teachers (in my experiences) have the same contracts, etc.
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Kwangjuchicken



Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You continually bring this up but continually fail to mention qualifications. Most foreigners working in Korean universities haven't reached the academic level required to be considered for tenue while Korean scholars working abroad have met the academic requirements needed to qualify for tenure in universities outside of Korea.[/quote]

This is because most universities in Korea will not hire foreign teachers who have such academic requirements. I applied to a ton of universities in Korea. About 1/2 never responded, and most of the rest told me that they can only hire MA's no lower, no higher.

And the icing on the cake, two of the highest rated universities in Korea BOTH told me that if I reapplied for the position and removed from my resume and cover letter any information stating I had a PhD, then they would hire me. I SAID NO both times.
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BTM



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Back in the saddle.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
just wanted to point out that no matter the "qualifications", all EFL teachers (in my experiences) have the same contracts, etc.


Which is precisely orthogonal to my experience at WeLoveTheJesus University (name changed to protect the guiltly) where different teachers were routinely given different contracts (usually new hires, who we were not given the pleasure of meeting (and warning) before they were indentured).

There aren't as many dodgy universities out there as there are dodgy hogwans, but the continued 'hogwanification' of many universities continues apace, unfortunately.

I loved my job at the last uni I worked at, until politics reared its ugly head. It was, though, it must be said, entirely too slack in many ways, and I'm yearning to get back to working hard and being rewarded and recognized for it. And the money was pretty poor (although certainly good for the number of hours worked).

If you're working on a Distance MA or something, a university gig at a school that gives you lots of free time is a godsend. If you're into making large dollars (legally), not so much so, in general.

Quote:
3 months is very short vacation. Most universities that I am aware of offer 4+ months of vacation for anywhere from 12-20 hours with 15 or 16 being the average.


True, as far as it goes, KCK, but most universities (at least the ones that have to advertise positions) have summer/winter sessions too, for at least part of the holidays, which are usually 'optional,' meaning if you don't do them you won't get offered another contract next time. Rolling Eyes
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bugs



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Location: Classroom

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Real Reality wrote:
Foreign professors tend to be treated as hired hands, without academic standing, and lacking the possibility of career advancement or tenure.They must submit to yearly contracts (compensated at a rate only 60 percent of their Korean peers) while walled off from the permanent Korean faculty who benefit from travel, research funding, sabbaticals, etc. Moreover, when hundreds of Korean scholars enjoy such perks at American and other foreign universities, something is obviously amiss.

According to the Samsung Group's chairman, Lee Kun-hee, to succeed globally, Korea must forgo the thought that Korea and being Korean is superior, and foreign specialists must be treated with respect.
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200206/14/200206142349223599900090109011.html


You continually bring this up but continually fail to mention qualifications. Most foreigners working in Korean universities haven't reached the academic level required to be considered for tenue while Korean scholars working abroad have met the academic requirements needed to qualify for tenure in universities outside of Korea.



You are absolutely correct. This is the thing which really irks me about English teachers in Korea with "entitlement" mentalilty. I have a masters degree. There's no way I would reap the full benefit from any university in the U.S. without a PhD, let alone get hired on by one. For a foreigner with a mere BA or MA to complained about it is unheard of.

I always see whining and complaining from English teachers about equality not realizing that they DON"T HAVE THE QUALIFICATIONS. Get your MA and same field you're teaching, and PHD before complaining about equal pay and treatment.

You know what? I bet 99.9 % of the foreign English teachers in Korea won't even get hired on by a community college in the states, yet, somehow deviously deceived into believing they deserve something for nothing. Evil or Very Mad Rolling Eyes Mad
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TECO



Joined: 20 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also agree.

If teachers aren't published and and they haven't earned a Doctorate or Ph.D - then asking to be treated like a "Professor" is very, very unrealistic, isn't it.

There are a few bona fide academics out here though in Asia - Mostly in Japan and maybe Taiwan?

PS - Someone posted here a while back that at their university in Korea they had 9 instructors with B.A.s and 1 with an M.A.

WOW!!

Try applying with only a B.A. for a university job in Japan or Taiwan and see how far you get.
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BTM



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Back in the saddle.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What TECO and bugs said.

Even when I had 'Professor' on my business cards, and was thrilled by it, I wasn't so foolish as to believe that I was one in anything more than name.

That didn't change the fact that I worked hard at being a great teacher, but I certainly didn't feel any sense of entitlement because of it.
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