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Contract clause

 
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William Beckerson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:28 pm    Post subject: Contract clause Reply with quote

Quote:
14. Termination
The Employer reserves the right to terminate this contract with the written notice to the Employee under the following conditions.
1) The Employee does not fulfill the contract obligations according to the terms stipulated, and fails to amend after the Employer has pointed it out.
2) According to the doctor’s diagnosis, the Employee can not continue normal work.
3) Blatant misconduct by the Employee either professionally or otherwise.
4) The Employee or dependents violate Korean Law.
5) The kids or the children complain the Employee and/or the Employee’s teaching method in relation with the class.


Anyone else notice something not quite right with this contract? Would you sign it?
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Circus Monkey



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: In my coconut tree

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No way. Basically, from my interpretation, it seems to be saying that if the kids don't like you then you can be released. Red Alert! This is the one of the most widely-used excuses that hagwon owners use to get rid of people. But if you do sign, then you might as well dress up as Bozo and give out candy and balloons all the time.

CM
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:18 pm    Post subject: tell them Reply with quote

Tell them thanks but no thanks.
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Lost Seoul



Joined: 10 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:20 am    Post subject: No way Reply with quote

No chance this effectively makes the students your boss, however, more precisely it means your employer can sack you any time he/she wants and claim "the students are complaining." How could you prove him wrong unless you could speak fluent Korean and be prepared to go through a long winded legal process.
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Crazy Oz



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Ilsan, Korea

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They have got it sewn up in the previous clause anyway. If they want to sack you it still requires 30 days notice (or funds equivalent). Basically in Korea, anything goes as a reason for termination, just be aware of your rights.
Does your emplyer really want to fork out sveral million won to replace you? Not likely.
Mine has a clause that even my boss laughed at " no sexual relationships with other teachers at the institute". I asked what the hell it was about (mainly because none are that attractive anyway), he just laughed and said it was from some contract site (yep, I renewed anyway).
I would assume that the clause mentioned would be applicable to those who get lots of complaints against them, and the boss starts losing paying customers...no won in, teacher out.



Still crazy, still here.
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know something? A lot of hagwon owners don't even know everything that's in the contracts they hand to people, especially true of the ones whose English is not top-notch. They don't figure the contract is terribly important - it's not, really, not so important as whatever relationship develops with between the 2 of you. In a lot of cases, they got the contract handed to them in its entirety from some acquaintance, probably another hagwon owner who also hasn't read the thing - to them, it's just a formality needed by immigration to get the E-2 processed. If they decide you stink, then later on they might look at it and see what they use to get rid of you ...

Hey, I wouldn't sign it either, but before turning it down outright, why not ask them to remove the offending bit of ink and see what they say? If you were gonna trash it anyway, you have nothing to lose if they say no dice to your suggestion. Wouldn't hurt, and it might help ...
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Crazy Oz



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Ilsan, Korea

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good suggestion.

Still crazy, still here.
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William Beckerson
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sent a message to the boss saying that I wont sign with that in there.

He called up and begged me to come. He told me that since he was part of a chain, he cant change the contract the head office gave him. He also told me that it was the first time he saw it, and not to worry about it, blah blah blah.

I think I can get him to cross it out once I arrive, contract in hand. He's short of teachers (No one wants to go to korea it seems, wonder why?) and wont have the time to get a new guy if I arrive and try to change things. When I arrive we'll both stuck with each other, and will have to work together to reach a compromise

However, the contract does stink to high heaven. I'd post it online, but dont think that's legal. And I think Bobster is right. They wont use the contract unless they need an excuse to get rid of me.

But I'm returning to Korea with the attitude that I'm gonna work, save my money, and if it goes to hell- bow out gracefully, take my lessons learned home with me, and never come back to the land of the morning liar.
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Sloth



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Here

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think I can get him to cross it out once I arrive, contract in hand. He's short of teachers (No one wants to go to korea it seems, wonder why?) and wont have the time to get a new guy if I arrive and try to change things. When I arrive we'll both stuck with each other, and will have to work together to reach a compromise


"Once you arrive" is a little too late to renegotiate a contract. And the chain school being unable to change a contract statement is a load of carp. I work at a chain school and I had parts of my contract changed or deleted.

Once that contract is signed, you will have a VERY hard time trying to renegotiate it. It is best to do so in your home country. If he won't do it, then politely tell him "No thanks" and move on to one of the many other jobs here in Korea.
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering your ticket situation, I'd say that, if you come and he doesn't agree to alter the contract(gotta press this as a major concern for you), then you'll have to look elsewhere for work. When you're here, you've got plenty of time to scout, barring limited finances.

Technically, any hakwon can get rid of you due to childrens' complaints anyways, but it's not in the contract. And, furthermore, hakwons do have ways of getting rid of you without releasing you. Most notably, the chain hakwons can do this.
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Harvard Material



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 11:50 pm    Post subject: Contract... Reply with quote

What chain is it?
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 11:58 pm    Post subject: yes.. Reply with quote

Yes..what chain is it?
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also a bit skeptical of your boss's claim that the chain makes him use the contract and that it can't be changed. Most chains are really franchises, i.e., the school is actually owned by the individual (your boss) and employment agreements (I believe) are legally between him and the employee, which is you. Not an expert on Korean law, but I think the only sort of chain that can require a standard contract for all employees is a corporate chain in which all the schools are owned and controlled as branches of a larger unmbrella corproration.

I work at a chain right now, which is really a franchise. I have a different contract than the guy who came a few days later than me (though he was actually hired a few weeks prior to me), and both of our contracts look different than the ones the guys we replaced had. It's because we each negotiated things differently, that's why.

I'm worried that your boss might already be blowing hot air at you even before he's laid eyes on you. It does not bode well for an amicable future together - it's Korean style for bosses to do this and it's also Korean style for employees to smile, nod and accept it. I'm willing and able to smile and nod over small things, or else I'd have been outta here along time ago, but I have a line that can't be crossed and after that my smile fades mighty fast ...

I've had a few bosses also who were good guys to work for because they did not try to snow me and they didn't mind if I was frank with them regarding things I could see that were not working - the guy I'm with now tries to justify some kind of silly things by telling me "It's Korean style," no doubt forgetting that the reason he hired me is that I've had some experience here ... I know by now what what is Korean style and what is HIS style.

In the end, the main thing we all should be advising you is to make sure you talk to other teachers so you can know if the guy pays on time and pays in full - the other stuff you can accomodate around or make him accomodate you, but not nearly so important as if he's keeping his word about the numbers ...

Good luck, and hope you don't need it.
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waterbaby



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Baking Gord a Cheescake pie

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For once everyone seems to be in agreement... the contract sux! If he won't change it now when he's sooooo desperate for a teacher, I really don't think you'll have any chance of changing it once you arrive.

I worked for a large chain hogwan and everyone who worked there had a slightly different contract to everyone else. I'd guess he's bluffing. Bluff him back and tell you won't come to his school unless he changes it. I reckon most of us have had to bluff about stuff here at some point. Confused

Keep pressing him. Sounds like your future director is already trying to guilt you into something you have reservations about and you haven't even arrived yet... anyone else hear the alarm bells??? Shocked
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