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Kosin University: Catholics Not Christian Enough To Teach
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Are Korean Protestant Christians Bigots?
(1) Absolutely
 68%  [ 17 ]
(2) No more than you and I
 32%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 25

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Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:12 pm    Post subject: Kosin University: Catholics Not Christian Enough To Teach Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad

I just got this reply back from Kosin University in response to my application and statement of Christian faith.

>I`am sorry but Kosin University more consider christian faith than teaching career. Thanks.<

I can't understand Professor Park's decision making process. In a previous E-mail he said that my teaching experise and academic qualifications appear beyond reproach and that it looks like I have a good chance for an interview.

Today I receive the above quoted reply to the status of my application.

In my statement of faith I stated that I came from a Catholic family and attended Catholic schooling. However, my family is different from other families in that we often attended Pentecostal services and fellowship.

I even go on to say that I received Christ as my personal savior in 1985.

I volunteered at a salvation Army hospital and a soup kitchen in Toronto for two month back in 1994.

From 1994-1995, I lived in an isolated community that only had a Catholic church. For what I lacked from the Catholic mass in the community I made up in with fellowship with a Mennonite missionary couple.

When I came to Korea back in 1996, I started attending a catholic church because one of my students introduced me to the church.

Since living in Korea, I have volunteered at an orphanage and attended Presbyterian services from time to time.

Now, I ask you, how can a person be more Christian than I am?
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Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on! You know koreans! You know the answer to your question! Confusious society? I think not, confusion! Lot's of double talk in korea. Bad? No, it's just the way it is. You are not the first to been told the good news only to have it changed later. Attending church in korea is just like hakwons; it is a business.
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Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Sunny Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

be careful, korean christians, while good people for the most part, some are among the most close minded and prejudiced people. and then, they are outspoken and STUBBORN about it. ugh
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Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:52 pm    Post subject: You're not a good fit for them Reply with quote

You're Catholic beliefs are not a good fit for them. It doesn't fit into their curriculm. Plain and simple.

Do you pray to Mary? They don't, and there is no substantiation for it in the Protestant Bible (I bet you know the Catholic Bible is different, right?). Do you believe that priests should not marry, and that people should confess their sins to priests? They don't, and it is also wrong according to their beliefs. Do you view the pope as anything more than a man? They see him as a human being, and no more -- not to be worshipped.

You may consider yourself a "Christian" for following Christ, and I would agree you are -- Catholic or not -- if you professed your faith in Jesus Christ, and try to follow his teachings, you are a Christian.

Your beliefs, however, do not match theirs.

What if I went to a Catholic school and asked to teach there -- professing that I know Christ, but am not a Catholic? Or if I went to a Muslim school, and asked to teach there? Would their responses be any different?

I was recently asked to interview with a Christian school, but I declined. The owner (a wonderful woman) was very open with me about her school, and that the teachers would only work with someone who is a Christian. Guess what I respectfully told her: NO.

Here's why:

I have studied the Bible for years, and as I see it, Christ came to this Earth, in part, to free people from the persecutions of the "Pharisees". I view many of the very strict religious types at these schools as bordering on being like "Pharisees" in some ways, and it saddens me. It saddens me because in my opinion, more people are hurt by them than are saved/converted/or whatever you want to call it.

If you don't know who the "Pharisees" were -- basically, they were very pious religious fanatics who followed the Jewish law with extreme closeness. The were so crazy, they counted every grain of salt before they put them on their food -- believing if they didn't they were not following the law. They also put scripture verses in little boxes and wore the boxes on their wrists and foreheads to show everyone that the scripture was on their minds at all times.

The Pharisees hated Jesus. Do you hear that -- HATED! And Christ disliked their ways, and warned about them. He was VERY outspoken about them, and stood up to them when others wouldn't. Eventually, the Pharisees had Christ killed.

My litmus test for determining if I need to be careful of some person or church is the subject of alcohol. Protestant churches who are serious about being "Christian" always key in on this as a "no-no". They teach people it is wrong to drink -- adding it as a man-made rule, rather than a God-given one.

If you read the Bible and know what is said instead of letting a church, school, or other organization instill you with man-made beliefs -- then you know that drinking alcohol will NOT make you a bad person. It's not a sin (unless it's excessive or problematic to you) and was enjoyed by Jesus, his disciples, and numerous others in the Bible.

Allow me to illustrate the foolishness. First of all, what was Jesus first miracle? Answer: He changed water into wine. If you read the scripture, you learn that Jesus' mother was freaking out because they were throwing a party, and ran out of wine (wouldn't you if you ran out of alchohol at your party?). So what did Jesus do? He said, "Fill these pots up with water", and after they did, they realized it had changed into wine. It was His first miracle.

Now, "man-based faith" Christians will argue that there was no alcohol in the wine. HOGWASH! Where is that in scripture? It's not! If you argue that the wine of the day had little or no alcohol, then you are plain wrong. Find some historic document to prove that, and I'll read it -- otherwise, it's all heresay. It is a "man-made" belief. "Man-based faith" Christians ignore/refuse to accept the story "as-is" because it doesn't jive with their man-made belief that alcohol is bad.

If you read the rest of that text, you see that one of the guests said, "Wow... you saved the best wine for last, while most people serve the best first... etc!" It was the common culture, at the time, to serve the best alcohol/wine first, then when people got a little toasted/drunk/etc, to serve the cheaper wine as time went on. The reason? Because when people get drunk, they don't notice the difference, or really care.

So now we know -- Jesus turned the water into wine -- NOT Welches grape juice. They also drank wine for communion -- NOT grape juice -- although it's the symbolism of the act of communion which counts, no matter what is used.

Another portion of the Bible they sight in error is when Jesus is hanging on the cross, and he is given sour wine. He spits it out, as anyone would. They like to point to this and say that Christ would not drink any more, so no one should drink. Bah humbug!

Also, certain Pharisee-like types will say they won't drink because they "don't want their alcoholic-prone brother to see it and be caused to stumble".

If that's true, then you should also wear burlap bags in public and stop having sex ENTIRELY! Both IN and OUT marriage! Why? Well, we wouldn't want to cause a Christian who is a porn addict to stumble, would we?

It just gets worse and worse... pretty soon Christians are so separated from society, they do no Earthly good to anyone but themselves. This was NOT Jesus' plan. NO WAY. As Christians, it is our commission to help others, not to hide in our own tidy "safe and comfortable" little Christian box and sign praise songs all day.

So your answer, if you are still reading this, is that you probably don't want to work at that school anyway. It will only complicate your life, and you will have to live under a lot of foolish rules that will hamper your usefulness to God to those who need his message most.
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Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Gangwon-do

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prejudice is always awful, of course. But as the last poster points out, at length, there are serious differences between catholics and Protestants and historically both groups consider themselves the REAL Christians, at cost of millions ansd millions of lives. You might feel uncomfortable in an environment like this anyway, so I doubt you're missing out on anything. I don't even apply for jobs that make special note of the "Christian" requirement, and if I were a Christian I still wouldn't because I don't believe the question is relevant for teaching EFL.

It is foolish to suggest that Korean Protestants are more prejudiced than anywhere else. There are MANY school in the states that would consider you a Pope-lovin', mackerel-snappin' antichrist. Check out Bob Jones "University", for example. (I hear they even have a ban on interracial dating!)
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Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Valley of the sun

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek I think is talking about this passage:

Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."

He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?"

"For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God"; then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition."

"Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’"

When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, "Hear and understand: Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man."
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Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:07 pm    Post subject: That's part of it Reply with quote

Good quote...

And there are many more.
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Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 7:44 pm    Post subject: I Don't Consider Myself a True Catholic Reply with quote

Because I didn't have enough space or time, I couldn't show all the contents of the statement of faith I sent to Kosin University.

But, let me say one thing, my upbringing and christian fellowship in high school and university are not common for Catholics.

Enough said
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Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry too much, they turned me down too!
I made my way down to Koshin Uni in Pusan last summer. I nailed the interview and met all the big wigs...anyways, my boyfriend made the 5 hour train ride with me and was outside smoking.....A big NO NO. Twisted Evil Anyways, I was told that my boyfriend's lifestyle was the reason I did not get offered the job. I emailed him back and told him that it was unfortunate that he made the decision to hire me based on my boyfriend's habits. I was really angry but I had decided that I didn't want it anyways. Too low salary and they wanted me to stay every weekend and do church things--which is impossible since most weekends I would be travelling to see my bf. Anyhow, the concept of working with all Christains in a Christain school would have been nice. Smile
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The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On more than a few occasions when speaking of religion with Koreans, I have asked someone if they were Catholic and gotten the reply, "No, I'm a Christian."

I used to think it was a translation problem, but I think it's not only that and it goes to the level of concepts. Many Koreans draw such a dark line between Protestants and Catholics that they don't conside the latter to be Christian at all.

By the way, many Koreans are also not aware that many times the type of practice used by their particular branch of Protestantism differs distinctly from what goes on in the same churches back in the west. Nowadays, Presbyterian churches back home (once among the most conservative of Christians) allow women to be ordained as ministers, lead serices, marry people people and officiate at funerals, all that ... it just wouldn't fly over here and a lot of Koreans I've met are not even aware of these differences in doctrine ...

Anyway, to you and me it's something along the level of semantics, but I get the impression from Koreans that Catholicism is not considered Christianity any more than judaism is considered so by us, and I get blank looks when I try to tell them otherwise.

Probably doesn't help, but there it is.
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Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:33 pm    Post subject: All religion is nonsense! Reply with quote

There are FUNDAMENTAL differences between Catholicism and Protestantism. In many ways they are completely different faiths. Fundamentalist Protestants DO NOT accept that Catholicism is a Christian faith. It is a pagan faith"with a Christian face". They believe Catholicism is incompatible with biblical doctrines of justification, etc... And it has to be said, many Catholic beliefs are INCOMPATIBLE with biblical teachings (ie. the veneration of Mary, the infallibility of the pope, the use of images in worship, the role of good works in salvationetc...

However, having said that, one must recall that the bible is a historical document that MUST be critiqued as a historical document. Whether viewed from the angle of earth sciences, biology, psychology, or the plain detective perspective of actual "eye witnesses" the bible is an unreliable document. No one should base their life's philosophy on such a collection of writings by individuals 2000 years before Darwin, psychiatry, astronomy etc...By evey criteria the bible is a fraud.

An example. It takes five to seven days for an adult male to die from crucifixion. It's a long painful death. How long was Jesus on the cross. Scripture not surprisingly contradicts itself. One says three hours, the other six hours. HELLO!! No wonder people saw him walking around a few days later. He wasn't dead!! Well, what about the spear, you say. If I recall, only one of the four scriptures mentions a spear. If the spear jab happened why did the other gospel writers miss it?> (Oh yes, I forgot, none of the gosple writers actually met Jesus. No eye witnesses. Sorry, I forgot) And even if he was jabbed by a spear, people survive horrific wounds ever day, from car crashes, wars etc...)

What's more plausible? That this Jesus guy died after three hours and got up again three days later. Or that he never died at all. Pilate himself claimed to find no guilt in Jesus. Jesus' own uncle, Joseph of Armathea was a rich trader. Isn't it likely that he bribed Pilate to take his nutty nephew down after a few hours?

Interesting isn't it that Jesus' legs weren't broken, to begin a suffocating process, like the other thieves.

Come oin people. Stop complaining about not getting accepted to eligious universities. STOP APPLYING TO THEM! Read a book and stop giving respect to religious beliefs that are based on ignorance and superstion (Catholic and Protestant alike).

REligion is for the uneducated. Read a book.
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4 months left

Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing That's hillarious, just goes to show you what a joke religion is. It is supposed to be for peace and goodness but it is time and time again racist, elitist and the cause of many, many wars. I love the quote from the Governor of Minnesota Jesse Ventura a few years back
"Religion is a crutch for the weak."

Now you've got Bush the born again against Saddam the muslim both proclaiming god will lead them to victory. Sorry lads it ain't gonna happen for one of you.
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Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:18 pm    Post subject: Hey Corporal dude. Reply with quote

Religion is superstion based on ignorance and mythology. I ended my posting with "Religion is for the uneducated." Some silly dufus called Corporal Writes, "Then that's clearly what you're desperately in need of."

Well, given that I have two MAS and have completed my PHD exams and written a book on political culture and religion, I'm curious what exactly Corporal's meaning was about me being uneducated. I'd also like to hear what his academic credentials are.


Religion is nonsense. This is not to say that I'm against spirituality. Even athiests lead a spiritual existence. We just don't base it on fictional characters like Zeus, Thor, Jehovah, Allah or what have you.

Agnostics, even athiests, will even concede that perhaps there is a supreme entity, a first cause of some sort. But for anyone to claim knowledge of it is a liar. A fraud. A snake oil salesman. If a superior entity exists, it 100% is not the characters in the bible. As Mark Twain once wrote, "Jehovah is the most poorly written character in all fiction".


The bible was written by several dozen people millenia ago in an attempt to understand life and to establish a basis for social order. There is no empirical fact in it. And just because people find "comfort" in religion says nothing about its authenticity. Jews, Buddhists, Hindues etc.. all find comfort in their religions.

They also all base their particular believe system on faith. So saying I have 'faith' means nothing. It's clearly an unreliable measurement of authenticity. Children have faith in Santa Claus. HE DOESN'T EXIST
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The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philipjames :
I'm curious what exactly Corporal's meaning was about me being uneducated.

Ah, phil, she's looking at your typo in the origninal post - you know, where your finger slipped on the shift key and you typed "religion" with two capital letters at the start? (REligion)

There are some people here who prefer to focus in on a typo, then make a jeering comment to indicate the person is stupid, mostly because this is much easier than discussing a topic on the level of the ideas that are there. Kind of juvenile, sure, perhaps even silly and dufus-ish but there you are ...
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Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 9:12 pm    Post subject: Hmmm... Reply with quote

All I know is that most Catholic schools in the US don't require their teachers to be Catholic. Sure, the majority of teachers may be Catholic but I've worked in a Catholic school before and it wasn't a problem for me (as someone brought up protestant) at all. I don't see why it would matter unless you were specifically teaching religion.

But then maybe not all the Universities in Korea are the same as the one pinpointed here.
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