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K-pop is HUGE in the West.
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DIsbell



Joined: 15 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, to weigh in with some examples of gov't tampering/involvement in the music industry here:

-Shin Joong-hyun was asked to write a pro-Park Chung-hee diddy and refused, writing another song instead. Not long after he's blacklisted and jailed for some time.

-Recently, some boy band acted like cocky little twerps on a Thai TV interview and a Korean gov't agency (Ministry of Culture and Tourism) sends memos to entertainment companies about proper behavior.

-Gov't puts on Kpop television channels in other countries.

-Gov't publishes sales pitch for Kpop.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
-Shin Joong-hyun was asked to write a pro-Park Chung-hee diddy and refused, writing another song instead. Not long after he's blacklisted and jailed for some time.


That was like, 30+ years ago.

Quote:

-Gov't puts on Kpop television channels in other countries.

-Gov't publishes sales pitch for Kpop.


That's not really government involvement.

Radio Free Europe played American music, doesn't mean the American government was involved in the music industry.

And having the tourism bureau advertise KPop doesn't really count either. What is Detroit not going to advertise that it's the home of Motown and Madonna?


Quote:
Although this condemnation deals primarily with broadcast media, it is by no means true that Lee only focused on broadcast media. Being familiar with people involved in theatre, music and art (not to mention workers belonging to unions), I can tell u that wide-ranging and deeply impactful changes occurred across the board, to the extent that even in a foreigner's oriented mini film festival (we're talking quite minor), specific instructions were given to participants that any production involving any criticism of the government (even if it were simply in jest) wouldn't be screened. The example I gave earlier of the middle-aged gov't official demanding the volume be turned down at an international art festival is just another indicator of how ridiculous and micromanaged the situation is.

A lot of music/art-related festivals rely on gov't funding, and are often instructed on what or what not is acceptable, either in clear direct tones, or in more subtle but nonetheless compromising insinuations, as in less or no funding given the following year if things not 'in line' enough go on...this is a severe deterent to truly creative, groundbreaking things being developed in Korea, and so what one often encounters is safe, rehashed, and recycled amalgamations, or in rare extreme cases, disjointed unfocused efforts which are admirable for their truthful expression, but lack a supportive enough environment which would allow them to germinate and develop into something truly lasting and special.


Well I can sort of see this, but I'm having trouble reconciling it with the sex and booty I see on Kpop, the quality and creativity I see in Korean film, and the sheer futility of attempting to filter stuff given Korea's internet connectivity and netizen's.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Well I can sort of see this, but I'm having trouble reconciling it with the sex and booty I see on Kpop.


Booty? On Kpop, never seen that.
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Dave Chance



Joined: 30 May 2011

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
-Shin Joong-hyun was asked to write a pro-Park Chung-hee diddy and refused, writing another song instead. Not long after he's blacklisted and jailed for some time.


That was like, 30+ years ago.

Quote:

-Gov't puts on Kpop television channels in other countries.

-Gov't publishes sales pitch for Kpop.


That's not really government involvement.

Radio Free Europe played American music, doesn't mean the American government was involved in the music industry.

And having the tourism bureau advertise KPop doesn't really count either. What is Detroit not going to advertise that it's the home of Motown and Madonna?


Quote:
Although this condemnation deals primarily with broadcast media, it is by no means true that Lee only focused on broadcast media. Being familiar with people involved in theatre, music and art (not to mention workers belonging to unions), I can tell u that wide-ranging and deeply impactful changes occurred across the board, to the extent that even in a foreigner's oriented mini film festival (we're talking quite minor), specific instructions were given to participants that any production involving any criticism of the government (even if it were simply in jest) wouldn't be screened. The example I gave earlier of the middle-aged gov't official demanding the volume be turned down at an international art festival is just another indicator of how ridiculous and micromanaged the situation is.

A lot of music/art-related festivals rely on gov't funding, and are often instructed on what or what not is acceptable, either in clear direct tones, or in more subtle but nonetheless compromising insinuations, as in less or no funding given the following year if things not 'in line' enough go on...this is a severe deterent to truly creative, groundbreaking things being developed in Korea, and so what one often encounters is safe, rehashed, and recycled amalgamations, or in rare extreme cases, disjointed unfocused efforts which are admirable for their truthful expression, but lack a supportive enough environment which would allow them to germinate and develop into something truly lasting and special.


Well I can sort of see this, but I'm having trouble reconciling it with the sex and booty I see on Kpop, the quality and creativity I see in Korean film, and the sheer futility of attempting to filter stuff given Korea's internet connectivity and netizen's.


To your point-


InternetSee also: Prime Minister's Office Civilian Surveillance Incident
The nation of South Korea is a world leader in Internet and broadband penetration, but its citizens do not have access to free and unfiltered Internet. South Korea’s government maintains a broad-ranging approach toward the regulation of specific online content and imposes a substantial level of censorship on election-related discourse and on a large number of websites that the government deems subversive or socially harmful.[5] Such policies are particularly pronounced with regard to anonymity on the Internet.

In September 2004, North Korea launched the Kim Il-sung Open University website, www.ournation-school.com. Only three days later, Internet providers in South Korea were ordered by the National Police Agency, National Intelligence Service (NIS) and the Ministry of Information and Communication (MIC) to block connections to the site, as well as more than 30 others, including Minjok Tongshin, Choson Sinbo, Chosun Music, North Korea Info Bank, DPRK Stamp and Uriminzokkiri.

In 2007, numerous bloggers were censored and their posts deleted by police for expressing criticism of, or even support for, presidential candidates. This even lead to some bloggers being arrested by the police.[7] Subsequently in 2008, just before a new presidential election, new legislation that required all major internet portal sites to require identity verification of their users was put into effect. This applies to all users who add any publicly viewable content. For example, to post a comment on a news article, a user registration and citizen identity number verification is required. For foreigners who do not have such numbers, a copy of passport must be faxed and verified. Although this law was initially met with public outcry, as of 2008, most of the major portals, including Daum, Naver, Nate, and Yahoo Korea, enforce such verification before the user can post any material that is publicly viewable.[8] Youtube refused to conform to the law, instead opting to disable the commenting feature on its Korean site.[9]

Most North Korean websites are hosted overseas in the United States, Japan and the People's Republic of China. Critics say that the only practical way of blocking a webpage is by denying its IP address, and since many of the North Korean sites are hosted on large servers together with hundreds of other sites, the impact on the number of real blocked pages increase significantly. Estimates are that over 3,000 additional webpages are rendered inaccessible.

South Korean president Lee Myung-bak's year 2011 policies include cracking down on pro-North Korean comments on social network sites like Facebook and Twitter.[15]

On December 21, 2010, the Korea Communications Commission controversially announced that it is planning to create a guideline about monitoring the internet content in case of a tense political situation; automatically deleting any online anti-governmental message that could lead to internet censorship.[16]

In January 2011, a South Korean man was arrested for praising North Korea through social networking sites.[17]

On September 6th, 2011, the Electronic Frontier Foundation criticized the Korea Communications Standards Commission for proposing censorship and restriction on a blog of an internet free speech activist, Dr. Gyeong-sin Park.[18][19]

The South Korean conservative media outlets, like the Lee Myung-bak government, are alleged of combating for internet censorship as the internet is the main source of information for progressive South Korean youths.[20]

[edit] Music- In November 2010, a woman was sentenced to two years in prison for the possession of MP3s of instrumental music, on the grounds that the titles constituted praise of North Korea, notwithstanding the actual music's lack of lyrics.[21]
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One way to interpret pop music is that it's a means for corporations to lull the kids into becoming as apolitical as possible.
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NohopeSeriously



Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Chance: The internet censoring thingy is very disturbing.

12ax7 wrote:
One way to interpret pop music is that it's a means for corporations to lull the kids into becoming as apolitical as possible.


And become brainless consumers for the big corporations.
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one thing that disturbs me about K-pop in this country are the amount of men over the age of 25 (including 30 and 40 year old) who openly claim they like K-pop and can even name members of the girl groups.


It's pathetic and makes me question a lot of guys manhood here. It's borderline pedo as well.




Secondly the popularity of ballad music among the guys here is straight up gay. Well this is based on the culture I grew up in so I'm biased, but most dudes just don't listen to that crap where I come from.



And this is one of the reasons why Western guys (including many gyopos) do so well with the ladies here. The competition is feminine.


My 2 cents.
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Dave Chance



Joined: 30 May 2011

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NohopeSeriously wrote:
Dave Chance: The internet censoring thingy is very disturbing.


It is disturbing.

However, if one is clued into the massacres and hyper suppression which went on post 1945, and realize that the war was civil in nature and divided along class lines, it really should not come as much of a surprise...that people are still jailed merely for their belief system is a very clear indication of the real shape of things...but hey, if u promise to rock the K-pop and buy what they tell u to, you'll probably receive a 'get outta jail' pass...don't forget the plastic surgery if you don't measure up...
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duke of new york



Joined: 23 Jan 2011

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think you guys are little kooky if you think that K-pop is some kind of secret invention of the government used to control the minds of the youth. It seems a lot more likely that this is just the kind of music you end up with when you suppress everything meaningful.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke of new york wrote:
I still think you guys are little kooky if you think that K-pop is some kind of secret invention of the government used to control the minds of the youth. It seems a lot more likely that this is just the kind of music you end up with when you suppress everything meaningful.


I think even that's a bit much. I think a lot of people just flat out enjoy catchy music. It is catchy and all, slickly produced, features attractive people, well-executed dance routines, and some performers have a pretty good voice. I mean that's not exactly some strange government recipe or something abnormal for human beings to like. As far as the government's "message" in there, I can't see what it is that is so hidden and is somehow working to the government agenda. I mean playing on sexual desires for gorgeous people? Clothes? Cars? Fun Times? Booze? Do those things really need government help to sell?

As Chris Rock says, you could put the most demeaning, insulting lyrics on a song but if the beat's alright, people will dance all night. "He ain't rappin bout ME!" Beat trumps lyrics.
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Drew345



Joined: 24 May 2005

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought of K-pop as being a case of "the jokes on them, and they don't even get it." I mean, it's like nobody here got the memo that boy bands were just a bit of fun that ended 20 years ago.
But now, it seems to be catching on in America again! Not k-pop exactly, but the style where a singer puts in a tape, sings and dances with some backup dancers, is making a huge (shocking) comeback in America. I blame American Idol, more than any K-pop influence; but still, America seems to be going in a direction toward k-pop style (singing and dancing to karaoke tapes).
Here's what Gene Simmons has to say about it:
Explaining the reason behind the reunion, KISS' Gene Simmons shares his thoughts to the press, "We're sick and tired of girls getting up there with dancers and karaoke tapes in back of them." He continues, "No fake bull****. Leave that to the Rihanna, Smhianna and anyone who ends their name with an 'A'."
http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00048910.html
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Dave Chance



Joined: 30 May 2011

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
duke of new york wrote:
I still think you guys are little kooky if you think that K-pop is some kind of secret invention of the government used to control the minds of the youth. It seems a lot more likely that this is just the kind of music you end up with when you suppress everything meaningful.


I think even that's a bit much. I think a lot of people just flat out enjoy catchy music. It is catchy and all, slickly produced, features attractive people, well-executed dance routines, and some performers have a pretty good voice. I mean that's not exactly some strange government recipe or something abnormal for human beings to like. As far as the government's "message" in there, I can't see what it is that is so hidden and is somehow working to the government agenda. I mean playing on sexual desires for gorgeous people? Clothes? Cars? Fun Times? Booze? Do those things really need government help to sell?

As Chris Rock says, you could put the most demeaning, insulting lyrics on a song but if the beat's alright, people will dance all night. "He ain't rappin bout ME!" Beat trumps lyrics.


You did have doubts about government involvement, citing the openess of the internet in Korea...which turns out to be rather filtered by the government.

If they have no agenda, why filter so much? Why put people in jail for their belief system?

K-pop is exactly the type of media package the ruling party loves (remember in the 90's a different kind of scene)- immensely marketable to TEENS due to the beats, 'gorgeousness' (this is subjective, u will agree, as some people are turned off by the hyper make-up, plastic surgery, Madison Avenue-dictated body type, whiff of programmed soundbyte laugh/smile/giggle, et al), 'fun times' (again, subjective; some would sooner stay home then hang with your typical K-pop 'star'), booze, latest cars (why sneeze at a free promo good for a few thousand more sales of the latest Hyundai?), and, most importatnly, completely controllable via disposable actors who have nothing of consequence to discuss beyond mainstream socially-acceptable views.

If you were on top and wanted to keep a hold on things, this would be an indispensable part of your program; as noted, even 30-40-somethings are locked in. Now if you don't want to see it and aren't very familiar with how gov't rolls these days, that's your thing. But really, to claim a government which imprisons people for what they personally choose to believe has no stake in popular music (the heavy involvement/meddling in broadcast and print media has already been stated and noted by international organizations) is, at this point, veering into a certain dmension of denial.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
K-pop is exactly the type of media package the ruling party loves (remember in the 90's a different kind of scene)- immensely marketable to TEENS due to the beats, 'gorgeousness' (this is subjective, u will agree, as some people are turned off by the hyper make-up, plastic surgery, Madison Avenue-dictated body type, whiff of programmed soundbyte laugh/smile/giggle, et al), 'fun times' (again, subjective; some would sooner stay home then hang with your typical K-pop 'star'), booze, latest cars (why sneeze at a free promo good for a few thousand more sales of the latest Hyundai?), and, most importatnly, completely controllable via disposable actors who have nothing of consequence to discuss beyond mainstream socially-acceptable views.

If you were on top and wanted to keep a hold on things, this would be an indispensable part of your program; as noted, even 30-40-somethings are locked in. Now if you don't want to see it and aren't very familiar with how gov't rolls these days, that's your thing. But really, to claim a government which imprisons people for what they personally choose to believe has no stake in popular music (the heavy involvement/meddling in broadcast and print media has already been stated and noted by international organizations) is, at this point, veering into a certain dmension of denial.


Right, but that's pop music pretty much everywhere around the globe. Now not every country around the globe has heavy government involvement, but they all seem to center around sex and "fun times". I mean western Rock music is supposed to be free of this influence, right? But what's the catch phrase? "Sex, drugs, rock n' roll." Is this government influence or human nature? Doesn't marketing and percentages dictate that sex and materialism is a good sell?

And there's a big difference between being against pro-"country we are still in a state of war with" sentiments in music and the government pushing materialism and sex.

Also, those KPop stars aren't pushing Hyundais or domestic fashion. They're pushing Lamborghinis, BMWs, LV, Fendi, Chanel, etc.

I don't see anyone around the world pushing dumpy dressed fat people driving beater cars who want to sit home and enjoy a game of chess while discussing Proust. The fact is music about farming policy or the FTA just wouldn't be that big of a sell to young people.

And yeah, 40 year olds like to think about sex and materialism as well and respond to it. People out there may be an exception, but I don't think they're the rule. Otherwise adultery wouldn't be so popular.

I can see what you're saying in small doses, but the powers that be strike me as more willing to leave music up to the free market and let cash roll in than conducting some sort of coordinated campaign. Sounds like a pretty terrible strategy for a party that is already seeing its numbers in the sub-50% zone. Somehow I have this crazy idea that they pay more attention to banking policy and unions and sovereign debt than the effect 2NE1's latest MV has on the young adult population.

Every genre except faith-based music is filled with songs about booze and/or sex. Rock? Blues? Jazz? Country? Rap? Funk? Soul? Celtic? Techno? heck even Opera.

I mean, if what you're saying is true, than how come pop music (pretty much music period) the world round sells sex and/or materialism? Isn't that indicative of human nature and not some government policy?

Sorry, but the average human being in a non-politically intense situation (no tanks in the public square or shells being lobbed at villages) doesn't care about deep political issues. This isn't because of the government, this is because of human nature. I don't think it has much to do with music. You could have the most progressive, socially conscious, anti-government in the world and odds are your government will still be run by idiots and you'll still be working the same crap job. Unless I'm wrong and Reggae turned Jamaica into a paradise.
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Dave Chance



Joined: 30 May 2011

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
K-pop is exactly the type of media package the ruling party loves (remember in the 90's a different kind of scene)- immensely marketable to TEENS due to the beats, 'gorgeousness' (this is subjective, u will agree, as some people are turned off by the hyper make-up, plastic surgery, Madison Avenue-dictated body type, whiff of programmed soundbyte laugh/smile/giggle, et al), 'fun times' (again, subjective; some would sooner stay home then hang with your typical K-pop 'star'), booze, latest cars (why sneeze at a free promo good for a few thousand more sales of the latest Hyundai?), and, most importatnly, completely controllable via disposable actors who have nothing of consequence to discuss beyond mainstream socially-acceptable views.

If you were on top and wanted to keep a hold on things, this would be an indispensable part of your program; as noted, even 30-40-somethings are locked in. Now if you don't want to see it and aren't very familiar with how gov't rolls these days, that's your thing. But really, to claim a government which imprisons people for what they personally choose to believe has no stake in popular music (the heavy involvement/meddling in broadcast and print media has already been stated and noted by international organizations) is, at this point, veering into a certain dmension of denial.


Right, but that's pop music pretty much everywhere around the globe. Now not every country around the globe has heavy government involvement, but they all seem to center around sex and "fun times". I mean western Rock music is supposed to be free of this influence, right? But what's the catch phrase? "Sex, drugs, rock n' roll." Is this government influence or human nature? Doesn't marketing and percentages dictate that sex and materialism is a good sell?

And there's a big difference between being against pro-"country we are still in a state of war with" sentiments in music and the government pushing materialism and sex.

Also, those KPop stars aren't pushing Hyundais or domestic fashion. They're pushing Lamborghinis, BMWs, LV, Fendi, Chanel, etc.

I don't see anyone around the world pushing dumpy dressed fat people driving beater cars who want to sit home and enjoy a game of chess while discussing Proust. The fact is music about farming policy or the FTA just wouldn't be that big of a sell to young people.

And yeah, 40 year olds like to think about sex and materialism as well and respond to it. People out there may be an exception, but I don't think they're the rule. Otherwise adultery wouldn't be so popular.

I can see what you're saying in small doses, but the powers that be strike me as more willing to leave music up to the free market and let cash roll in than conducting some sort of coordinated campaign. Sounds like a pretty terrible strategy for a party that is already seeing its numbers in the sub-50% zone. Somehow I have this crazy idea that they pay more attention to banking policy and unions and sovereign debt than the effect 2NE1's latest MV has on the young adult population.

Every genre except faith-based music is filled with songs about booze and/or sex. Rock? Blues? Jazz? Country? Rap? Funk? Soul? Celtic? Techno? heck even Opera.

I mean, if what you're saying is true, than how come pop music (pretty much music period) the world round sells sex and/or materialism? Isn't that indicative of human nature and not some government policy?

Sorry, but the average human being in a non-politically intense situation (no tanks in the public square or shells being lobbed at villages) doesn't care about deep political issues. This isn't because of the government, this is because of human nature. I don't think it has much to do with music. You could have the most progressive, socially conscious, anti-government in the world and odds are your government will still be run by idiots and you'll still be working the same crap job.


Well, if you talk to someone from Denmark they'd tell you their push for a more progressive gov't has made all the difference in the world.

And it is precisely because Korean youth were intensely political that gov't planners became interested in how to shift attention away from US foreign policy towards a "life's a party" mode.

You are in such an acute sense of denial that you can't see that in South Korea all genres except for pop and classical have been marginalized. Koreans previously supported message-oriented and not-so-oriented folk, rock etc and were familar with their merits. Of course as stated before you aren't very familiar with how government has official policies for all media, and assume a hands-off approach.

But again, a gov't so deeply involved in print and broadcast media isn't suddenly unconcerned (and Korean gov't officials aren't in the least casual about such matters) with music, which arguably has just as much or even more influence with its target audience. U seem to have taken leave of your reason and have forgotten how thorough and unrelenting Koreans in offical positions are. So in any case that's about all I've got to say about it, I think we understand each other's position, u wanna stay there that's your call.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Chance wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
K-pop is exactly the type of media package the ruling party loves (remember in the 90's a different kind of scene)- immensely marketable to TEENS due to the beats, 'gorgeousness' (this is subjective, u will agree, as some people are turned off by the hyper make-up, plastic surgery, Madison Avenue-dictated body type, whiff of programmed soundbyte laugh/smile/giggle, et al), 'fun times' (again, subjective; some would sooner stay home then hang with your typical K-pop 'star'), booze, latest cars (why sneeze at a free promo good for a few thousand more sales of the latest Hyundai?), and, most importatnly, completely controllable via disposable actors who have nothing of consequence to discuss beyond mainstream socially-acceptable views.

If you were on top and wanted to keep a hold on things, this would be an indispensable part of your program; as noted, even 30-40-somethings are locked in. Now if you don't want to see it and aren't very familiar with how gov't rolls these days, that's your thing. But really, to claim a government which imprisons people for what they personally choose to believe has no stake in popular music (the heavy involvement/meddling in broadcast and print media has already been stated and noted by international organizations) is, at this point, veering into a certain dmension of denial.


Right, but that's pop music pretty much everywhere around the globe. Now not every country around the globe has heavy government involvement, but they all seem to center around sex and "fun times". I mean western Rock music is supposed to be free of this influence, right? But what's the catch phrase? "Sex, drugs, rock n' roll." Is this government influence or human nature? Doesn't marketing and percentages dictate that sex and materialism is a good sell?

And there's a big difference between being against pro-"country we are still in a state of war with" sentiments in music and the government pushing materialism and sex.

Also, those KPop stars aren't pushing Hyundais or domestic fashion. They're pushing Lamborghinis, BMWs, LV, Fendi, Chanel, etc.

I don't see anyone around the world pushing dumpy dressed fat people driving beater cars who want to sit home and enjoy a game of chess while discussing Proust. The fact is music about farming policy or the FTA just wouldn't be that big of a sell to young people.

And yeah, 40 year olds like to think about sex and materialism as well and respond to it. People out there may be an exception, but I don't think they're the rule. Otherwise adultery wouldn't be so popular.

I can see what you're saying in small doses, but the powers that be strike me as more willing to leave music up to the free market and let cash roll in than conducting some sort of coordinated campaign. Sounds like a pretty terrible strategy for a party that is already seeing its numbers in the sub-50% zone. Somehow I have this crazy idea that they pay more attention to banking policy and unions and sovereign debt than the effect 2NE1's latest MV has on the young adult population.

Every genre except faith-based music is filled with songs about booze and/or sex. Rock? Blues? Jazz? Country? Rap? Funk? Soul? Celtic? Techno? heck even Opera.

I mean, if what you're saying is true, than how come pop music (pretty much music period) the world round sells sex and/or materialism? Isn't that indicative of human nature and not some government policy?

Sorry, but the average human being in a non-politically intense situation (no tanks in the public square or shells being lobbed at villages) doesn't care about deep political issues. This isn't because of the government, this is because of human nature. I don't think it has much to do with music. You could have the most progressive, socially conscious, anti-government in the world and odds are your government will still be run by idiots and you'll still be working the same crap job.


Well, if you talk to someone from Denmark they'd tell you their push for a more progressive gov't has made all the difference in the world.

And it is precisely because Korean youth were intensely political that gov't planners became interested in how to shift attention away from US foreign policy towards a "life's a party" mode.

You are in such an acute sense of denial that you can't see that in South Korea all genres except for pop and classical have been marginalized. Koreans previously supported message-oriented and not-so-oriented folk, rock etc and were familar with their merits. Of course as stated before you aren't very familiar with how government has official policies for all media, and assume a hands-off approach.

But again, a gov't so deeply involved in print and broadcast media isn't suddenly unconcerned (and Korean gov't officials aren't in the least casual about such matters) with music, which arguably has just as much or even more influence with its target audience. U seem to have taken leave of your reason and have forgotten how thorough and unrelenting Koreans in offical positions are. So in any case that's about all I've got to say about it, I think we understand each other's position, u wanna stay there that's your call.


But how am I supposed to just ignore the fact that KPop's content is the same as every other country's pop music? If their content is the same, and not every government is meddling in pop music, doesn't that logically suggest that there is some sort of marketable appeal of catchy music that features attractive people and sells sex and materialism?

Quote:
You are in such an acute sense of denial that you can't see that in South Korea all genres except for pop and classical have been marginalized.


Hip Hop?

Quote:
Koreans previously supported message-oriented and not-so-oriented folk


I think folk has declined the world over. What is it still big in the US?

Quote:
rock


Maybe because Koreans aren't white? Outside of white people, rock isn't as popular. It's hip-hop, pop, and techno for much of the world.

Quote:
And it is precisely because Korean youth were intensely political


During the military dictatorship yeah, but things seem to be a bit different now. I mean as a Korean youth, what issues are there for me that are THAT intensive? Maybe jobs, but the nature of standardized testing and whatnot puts the blame on the student for failing. FTA? Young people are more concerned about farmers than cheaper prices for clothes? North Korea? Who cares as long as there isn't a war or a bunch of THOSE people coming over. It's not like they have any influence over KJE. Throw out 2MB? And replace him with the slightly less corrupt next guy? Do you really think the average young person cares that much about the US military base? Heck, some of them are probably in favor because it means shorter terms of conscription which is a far bigger issue to them than the FTA or the US in Afghanistan and Libya.

The problem is even a kid working at family mart still has food in his gut, clothes on his back, a roof over his head, beer money, and entertainment. S/he might rant on the net or join a club or group to get a rush, but the fact is in absolute terms, life is pretty good for them. It's not because of the music censorship that they aren't that motivated, it's because they have food, clothing, shelter, entertainment, AND are in a better state than their parents were.

I just find it hard to believe that KPop's increasing sexiness and materialism is only coincidentally following global trends and is instead some sort of government push. Just because there is some government tampering, doesn't make the industry a mouthpiece of the government. More likely it seems they are left to their own devices and only draw attention if they egregiously step out of line. However the very nature of their market makes such occurrences rare. Sorry, the latest trax about the FTA and the global financial crisis aren't going to push sales.
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