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HIV Testing Policy Challenged - UN Coalition on Human Rights
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slothrop wrote:
[.

seriously. i think some of you guys must be screwing with me. there is no way some of you are this daft or creepy. let me break it down as simply as possible...
1 immigration wants medical tests from foreigners for issuance or extension of visa. NO PROBLEM
2. employer wants medical tests from ALL aplicants/employees. NO PROBLEM
3. MOE wants medical tests from ALL teachers. NO PROBLEM
4. employer wants medical tests ONLY from foreigners.PROBLEM
5. MOE wants medical tests ONLY from foreigners. PROBLEM



Tell you what. I'll write you a little story which might make my views clearer.


Once upon a time there were two foreigners working in a hakwon (let's call them slothrop and TheUrbanMyth aka TUM)

One fine day the WonJangNim came into the staff room.

WJN: "All right all Korean teachers get one hour break today to go into town. Foreign teachers must stay here though."

Slothrop: "That's racism...it's WRONG!!!"

TUM: "Excuse me sir why do the Korean teachers get a break?"

WJN: "Today is Election Day...it is law that Korean workers get time off to vote. You can not vote because you are foreigners...it is law."

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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slothrop wrote:
[ but if employers can demand medical testing indisciminateley/IE not from every employee/ aplicant equally, then what's to stop an empoyer from demanding tests ONLY from african americans? or ONLY from white people? or ONLY from foreigners?
.



Absolutely nothing. And your point is...?


Employers can demand (within the law) WHATEVER THEY WANT.

It is however YOUR CHOICE TO WORK THERE OR NOT. ( I certainly wouldn't work for the first two organizations.) But I do recognize there is a difference between citizens and temporary guest workers (which E-2's are ). Every single one of our home countries has rules and regulations which also establish a difference between these two types of workers.


Nothing we do is going to stop certain employers from demanding certain conditions. However we do retain the right to withhold our services and work for more enlightened employers. If you feel that working at a place would violate your moral guidelines...then just don't work there.

It really is that simple.
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slothrop wrote:
here's another story...

wjn... OK. today all foreigners must be drug tested.

sloth... only foreigners? not korean teachers?

UM... it's their country, sloth... don't they have a right to make up their own rules for employing foreigners?

sloth... uh, yeah... that's immigrations job, not wjn's job. besides we already took drug tests to get our visa and then another one to satisfy MOE last month. besides, the korean teachers have NEVER been drug tested...

UM(holding up his hand/talk to the hand)... please DO NOT say it is racism. whatever you do.. DO NOT say the R word.

sloth... uh, OK. i just don't want another needle stuck in me because some mothers called up WJN all paranoid after seeing that special report last week.

UM... you will NEVER understand korean culture.

sloth... OK



Funny story....however whereas the first one could very easily happen the second one never would.

Right after you say "...it's not wjn's job.." I'd point out that it is not wjn but the MOE/POE that are requiring this. These guys are not going to shell out the money for drug kits and tests...they're just going to tell us that the MOE/POE are asking us to go to hospitals and get tested.

They are just the messenger boys.

Hakwons don't have the medical equipment for that and unless word comes down from the higher ups that we have to take a day off to be tested...the wjn is going to want us in the classrooms making him money.
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slothrop wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
slothrop wrote:
[ but if employers can demand medical testing indisciminateley/IE not from every employee/ aplicant equally, then what's to stop an empoyer from demanding tests ONLY from african americans? or ONLY from white people? or ONLY from foreigners?.



Absolutely nothing. And your point is...?


Employers can demand (within the law) WHATEVER THEY WANT.



isn't that kind of the definition of racism? not when immigration does it(because their job is to discriminate foreigners). but when an employer does? i am not sure if there are laws against it or not in korea. i hope there are.


No. Racism is wrong. Period. Either BOTH Immigration and the employer are wrong or they are right.


Can't have your cake and eat it too.
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slothrop wrote:
but immigration doesn't have jurisdiction over it's own citizens.. they only deal with foreigners, so it never comes up.

BTW, in your story about voting day, it WOULD be racism if wjn wouldn't let me go vote with koreans because i can legally vote.
hehehehehe


Aha...but this is for the presidential election

Laughing Laughing
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Los Angeloser



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a translated copy of what the OP noted. Hey, you can show your co-teachers etc...since the Korean media has not yet reported it. It must be too embarrassing for Korean citizens or it's not news worthy.

[보도자료]
2012 년 7 월 26 일

한국, 외국인 대상 의무 에이즈 검사 국제사회 비난 사
유엔 인종차별철폐위원회 한국 정부에 인종차별 사례 공식 해명 요구

국가인권위원회가 한 외국인 교사가 제출한 강제 에이즈 검사에 대한 탄원서를 일방적으로 심의 거절한 것에 대해 유엔 인종차별철폐위원회가 한국 정부에 공식 해명을 요구했다.

스위스 제네바에 있는 유엔 인종차별철폐위원회(Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, CERD)는 뉴질랜드 출신 영어 교사 리사 그리핀(Lisa Griffin, 43)씨가 9 달 동안 두 차례에 걸쳐 에이즈 검사 결과를 제출하도록 강요 받은 것과 관련 한국 국가인권위원회에 낸 탄원서가 왜 심의 거절 당했는지에 대해 한국 정부에 해명을 요구했다. 또한, 그리핀씨가 이 같이 에이즈 검사를 강요당한 시기에 함께 일하던 한국인 동료들은 에이즈 검사 의무에서 면제되었던 것도 관건이었다.

지난 3 년 동안 국가인권위원회와 교육과학기술부는 이 탄원서에 대한 논의를 거절했고, 대한상사중재원 역시 가치가 없다는 이유로 논의를 거부했다. 국가인권위원회는 이 기간 동안 총 50 건의 유사 사례에 대해서도 심의를 거절했다.

그리핀씨의 탄원서 심의 거부는 유엔 인종차별철폐위원회 감시하에 있는 국제조약인 모든 형태의 인종차별 철폐에 관한 국제협약에 위배될 수 있다. 한국은 1978 년에 모든 형태의 인종차별 철폐에 관한 국제협약 당사국 일원이 됐다.

유엔 인종차별철폐위원회는 7 달 동안의 심의 절차를 거쳐 지난 7 월 10 일 이번 사례를 받아들이겠다고 결정했다. 이에 따라 정부는 4 달 내 유엔 인종차별철폐위원회의 해명 요구에 응해야 한다.

이는 한국 내 인종차별 문제 해결을 위해 모든 형태의 인종차별 철폐에 관한 국제협약이 처음으로 사용된 사례다.

그리핀씨의 법무 대리인이자 경희대 법학과 교수인 벤자민 와그너(Benjamin Wagner)씨는 한국 정부는 외국인 교사가 한국인 교사만큼이나 에이즈 바이러스에 감염되었을 확률이 적다는 것을 알고 있다. 또한, 교사들이 학생들에게 에이즈를 옮기지 않을 것이라는 사실도 알고 있다.라고 말했다.

와그너 교수는 외국인 교사들에 대한 의무적 에이즈 검사는 단순히 학부모들에게 국가 보건을 위해 정부가 무엇인가를 하고 있다는 것을 보이기 위한 상징적인 절차에 지나지 않는다. 정부 주도의 이런 의무적 검사 같은 접근 방법은 에이즈 확산을 막으려는 노력에 역효과의 결과를 초래할 뿐이며, 한국에 거주하는 외국인들에게 낙인을 찍는 것 밖에는 안된다. 이 사례를 공공보건 대 인권 문제로 간주하는 사람들이 있는데 이는 잘못된 이분법이다. 한국인과 외국인의 인권을 둘 다 보호하는 것이 에이즈 확산과 싸우는 최선의 방법이다. 라고 말했다.

그는 한국에서 에이즈는 나쁜 사람들이 걸린다는 인식이 있다. 에이즈가 종종 동성애에 대한 적대감을 표현하기 위한 방법 중 하나로 쓰이는 경우가 있다. 하지만, 이번 사건은 에이즈가 한국 내 타인종끼리의 결혼에 대한 적대감 및 한국에 거주하는 외국인들을 한국 민족, 한국의 도덕성, 그리고 한국 문화 등을 오염시키는 원인으로 묘사하는데 동원된 것이라고 볼 수 있다. 외국인을 대상으로 한 한국 정부의 강제 HIV 검사 프로그램은 인종차별을 위한 도구일 뿐이다. 라고 덧붙였다.

2010 년 반기문 유엔사무총장은 한국 정부에 외국인 교사를 대상으로 한 강제 HIV 검사를 폐지하라고 요구한 바 있다.

그리핀씨는 법무부의 요구에 따라 한 차례 에이즈 검사를 했고, 그 결과 에이즈에 감염되지 않은 것으로 판명됐다. 그리핀씨가 교육부의 두 번째 검사 요구에 불응하자 그녀가 근무하던 울산시의 한 초등학교는 계약 연장을 거부했다. 일자리를 잃은 그리핀씨는 비자가 무효화 되어 한국을 떠날 수 밖에 없었다. 그리핀씨는 현재 미국에서 근무하고 있다.

이번 사례는 한국에 있는 200,000 여 명의 다민족 시민들에게 큰 도움이 될 수도 있으며, 또 국회에서 수 차례 기각되었던 인종차별금지법 제정 문제에 여세를 가하는 계기가 될 지도 모른다.

한국 정부가 유엔 인종차별철폐위원회의 해명 요구에 응한 후, 청원자인 그리핀씨는 이에 대해 반박할 수 있는 2 달의 기간이 주어질 것이며, 마지막으로 유엔 인종차별철폐위원회에서 최종 결정이 내려질 예정이다.
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Los Angeloser



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slothrop wrote:
PatrickGHBusan wrote:
As usual sloth it is not as black & white as you want it to be. There are circumstances & situations.

To reassure you, typically, if a foreigner gets a work visa for Korea, he goes through some tests to get the visa. Then he may be required to take the same tests as another employee that is a Korean national.

Always remember this: a foreigner is on a SPONSORED visa, meaning his or her presence in Korea is granted for the sole reason a local employer made a case with the government that he needed a foreign worker to fill a specific role that could not be filled locally. As such, the employer is responsible for the employee in legal terms.

A fact that is all too often ignored when people wish to decry the inequalities of the system...

you are missing my point AGAIN!!!! if employer wants medical tests from ALL emloyees NO PROBLEM

i give up. never a straight answer. patrik, you should run for public office.


Why? I wouldn't vote for him.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
slothrop wrote:
[.

seriously. i think some of you guys must be screwing with me. there is no way some of you are this daft or creepy. let me break it down as simply as possible...
1 immigration wants medical tests from foreigners for issuance or extension of visa. NO PROBLEM
2. employer wants medical tests from ALL aplicants/employees. NO PROBLEM
3. MOE wants medical tests from ALL teachers. NO PROBLEM
4. employer wants medical tests ONLY from foreigners.PROBLEM
5. MOE wants medical tests ONLY from foreigners. PROBLEM



Tell you what. I'll write you a little story which might make my views clearer.


Once upon a time there were two foreigners working in a hakwon (let's call them slothrop and TheUrbanMyth aka TUM)

One fine day the WonJangNim came into the staff room.

WJN: "All right all Korean teachers get one hour break today to go into town. Foreign teachers must stay here though."

Slothrop: "That's racism...it's WRONG!!!"

TUM: "Excuse me sir why do the Korean teachers get a break?"

WJN: "Today is Election Day...it is law that Korean workers get time off to vote. You can not vote because you are foreigners...it is law."



Actually, isn't it the law that everybody gets the day off? At least, that's how it works at universities.

And some foreigners (some F visa holders) have the right to vote in certain elections.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
[quote="TheUrbanMythActually, isn't it the law that everybody gets the day off? At least, that's how it works at universities.

And some foreigners (some F visa holders) have the right to vote in certain elections.


Depends on the type of election. For example by-elections or re-elections are not designated as national holidays...citizens are entitled to time off to vote but not the day off.


Yup but again it depends on the type of election.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Los Angeloser wrote:
slothrop wrote:
PatrickGHBusan wrote:
As usual sloth it is not as black & white as you want it to be. There are circumstances & situations.

To reassure you, typically, if a foreigner gets a work visa for Korea, he goes through some tests to get the visa. Then he may be required to take the same tests as another employee that is a Korean national.

Always remember this: a foreigner is on a SPONSORED visa, meaning his or her presence in Korea is granted for the sole reason a local employer made a case with the government that he needed a foreign worker to fill a specific role that could not be filled locally. As such, the employer is responsible for the employee in legal terms.

A fact that is all too often ignored when people wish to decry the inequalities of the system...

you are missing my point AGAIN!!!! if employer wants medical tests from ALL emloyees NO PROBLEM

i give up. never a straight answer. patrik, you should run for public office.


Why? I wouldn't vote for him.


Indeed not and thanks!
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