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S K president turns up Japan heat: Emperor must apologize
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A drunk on a bar stool and a head of state speak differently. That has been true since 1648.

LMB is demonstrating (once again) that a businessman has no business being a head of state. He bungled the Korean-Japanese info-sharing deal. Now he's trying to appear anti-Japanese to cover that up.

It's stupid, shameful, and dangerous.
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

LMB is demonstrating (once again) that a businessman has no business being a head of state. He bungled the Korean-Japanese info-sharing deal. Now he's trying to appear anti-Japanese to cover that up.

It's stupid, shameful, and dangerous.


Yep.

He was elected because of his business acumen.
Politically speaking he seems clumsy.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Politically speaking he seems clumsy.


Is there a stronger word than 'clumsy'?
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
Politically speaking he seems clumsy.


Is there a stronger word than 'clumsy'?


Yes.

Chung Dong Young.


Lets all remember the choice that was available last election.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
Politically speaking he seems clumsy.


Is there a stronger word than 'clumsy'?


Yes.

Chung Dong Young.


Lets all remember the choice that was available last election.

There you go again. Is that all you got in the way of defending the current president?
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ajosshi



Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: ajosshi.com

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update (Aug. 23): South Korea Returns Letter From Japanese Leader

Quote:
The letter from Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda was delivered to the South Korean Embassy in Tokyo on Aug. 17, and the Japanese government published its contents online soon afterward. In the letter, Mr. Noda protested President Lee Myung-bak’s visit on Aug. 10 to the islets, known as Dokdo in South Korea and Takeshima in Japan, which lie midway between the two countries and are claimed by both. Mr. Noda also objected to Mr. Lee’s subsequent remark that Emperor Akihito of Japan “does not need to come” to South Korea on a planned visit unless he unequivocally apologizes for his country’s past colonial rule of Korea.

South Korea, which chafed at Japan’s having made the letter public before Mr. Lee could read it, decided to return the letter. “It included contents that we cannot tolerate at all,” Cho Tai-young, a spokesman for the South Korean Foreign Ministry, said on Thursday. “It’s only natural to send such a letter back.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/world/asia/south-korea-returns-letter-from-japanese-leader-or-tries-to.html
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Patrick Bateman



Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really think this situation makes South Korea look bad. Reading the story I could actually picture President Lee in the Blue House stomping his feet and shouting, "NO NO NO!"

But a little off topic, from the link about the letter:

Japan has proposed to take the [Dokdo/Takeshima] issue to the International Court of Justice, a notion that South Korea dismissed as “not worth consideration.” The court will address a dispute between nations only if both parties agree to it.

I honestly don't know enough the Dokdo/Takeshima issue, but wonder why Korea is so unwilling to take a productive step towards a resolution. I'm guessing because they worry that by doing so they think its like they are admitting Japan has a claim?
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atwood wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
Politically speaking he seems clumsy.


Is there a stronger word than 'clumsy'?


Yes.

Chung Dong Young.


Lets all remember the choice that was available last election.

There you go again. Is that all you got in the way of defending the current president?


It's good enough.

There was a choice to be made a few years back, and it boiled down to Lee and Chung. If you feel that Chung would have made a better president, well... that's your opinion. But I think he would have been a disaster.

So ppl can criticize him if they want, but they have to remember what the choices were like. And, IMO, Koreans made the right one.



Patrick Bateman wrote:
I honestly don't know enough the Dokdo/Takeshima issue, but wonder why Korea is so unwilling to take a productive step towards a resolution. I'm guessing because they worry that by doing so they think its like they are admitting Japan has a claim?


They have possession of it, so there's no need for them to make any move. As well, isn't there a Japanese judge on that court? I wouldn't be surprised if the K-side was worried about bias.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
atwood wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
Politically speaking he seems clumsy.


Is there a stronger word than 'clumsy'?


Yes.

Chung Dong Young.


Lets all remember the choice that was available last election.

There you go again. Is that all you got in the way of defending the current president?


It's good enough.

There was a choice to be made a few years back, and it boiled down to Lee and Chung. If you feel that Chung would have made a better president, well... that's your opinion. But I think he would have been a disaster.

So ppl can criticize him if they want, but they have to remember what the choices were like. And, IMO, Koreans made the right one.



Patrick Bateman wrote:
I honestly don't know enough the Dokdo/Takeshima issue, but wonder why Korea is so unwilling to take a productive step towards a resolution. I'm guessing because they worry that by doing so they think its like they are admitting Japan has a claim?


They have possession of it, so there's no need for them to make any move. As well, isn't there a Japanese judge on that court? I wouldn't be surprised if the K-side was worried about bias.

And other than in your opinion he was the better candidate, can you point to anything, such as accomplishments, that would support your opinion?

Chung wouldn't have wasted resources on and screwed up the ecology with the Four Rivers project. And I doubt anyone could have reacted worse than Lee and his people to NK's attacks on SK.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I figure Chung would have reacted worse to the NK issues.

Remember when he was Unification minister and that family climbed over the embassy walls and unfurled the ROK flag? Remember those defectors that got beaten and hauled back to the North. Do you remember what Chung said about them?

He said that defectors were causing trouble and that he was looking to implement a travel ban on pastors and the like that were flying to China to help defectors. He said they were hurting "Korean Unification"

So yeah, I figure he would have handled things worse. I'm guessing he would have apologized to the DPRK and paid them compensation for the bullet they lost in that tourist.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
Yeah, I figure Chung would have reacted worse to the NK issues.

Remember when he was Unification minister and that family climbed over the embassy walls and unfurled the ROK flag? Remember those defectors that got beaten and hauled back to the North. Do you remember what Chung said about them?

He said that defectors were causing trouble and that he was looking to implement a travel ban on pastors and the like that were flying to China to help defectors. He said they were hurting "Korean Unification"

So yeah, I figure he would have handled things worse. I'm guessing he would have apologized to the DPRK and paid them compensation for the bullet they lost in that tourist.

It sounds like he was doing his job as unification minister. Private citizens, such as the pastors, are usually not a good mix in diplomatic affairs. As president, he may well have reacted quite differently.
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Neil



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's an unspoken rule that an unelected head of state should never comment on political matters. In the UK Blair apologised for the Irish famine and Brown apologised for the Atlantic slave trade but the queen remained slient on both matters.

I'm on the fence as to if Japan needs to make further statements of regret/apology towards the Korean people whatever the wording. But if it happens it should come from the elected PM and not an outdated institution.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atwood wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
Yeah, I figure Chung would have reacted worse to the NK issues.

Remember when he was Unification minister and that family climbed over the embassy walls and unfurled the ROK flag? Remember those defectors that got beaten and hauled back to the North. Do you remember what Chung said about them?

He said that defectors were causing trouble and that he was looking to implement a travel ban on pastors and the like that were flying to China to help defectors. He said they were hurting "Korean Unification"

So yeah, I figure he would have handled things worse. I'm guessing he would have apologized to the DPRK and paid them compensation for the bullet they lost in that tourist.

It sounds like he was doing his job as unification minister. Private citizens, such as the pastors, are usually not a good mix in diplomatic affairs. As president, he may well have reacted quite differently.


So people are getting beaten, tortured, and killed... all for wanting to come to South Korea. These people, that are citizens of this country according to the constitution... and how does he defend them? How does he stand up for their rights?

He doesn't.

That's not the job of the unification minister - not to blindly accept human rights abuses like that - unless of course you're on the side of Chung and Noh... then anything goes so long as it doesn't irk the North.

Your boy is killed by the North - don't talk about it or we'll send gov goons to your house to tell ya to shut it.

Want to help North Korean (read: Koreans) escape a living hell and come to the South, we'll try to stop ya!

You asked for reasoning, and I gave it to you. But yeah, you're right, perhaps he would have suddenly grown a spine when he became president. Perhaps he would have suddenly cared about something other than himself.

By all means, why not bring something to the table of why he would have been a better president?
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Neil



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going a bit off topic but are NK issues really that important when deciding the next Korean president?

Both leftish and rightish presidents in the past have done bugger all to combat NK agression, not really a critism as the wishes of Washington and Beijing have to be taken into account. LMB did little to retaliate to the sinking to a Korean ship and the killing of Korean civilians from the shelling. Even the military dictatorships of the 70s and 80s did little in response to various outrages comitted by the North (tunnels, killing the presidents wife, terrorist attack in Burma).

Inter Korean relations aren't going to change one jot, no matter who wins the election this december....I would hope Koreans vote on the economy instead...and were I Korean I'd vote for the GNP (or whatever they are called thesedays) as the LMB administration has done an admirable job of shielding Korea from the global depression we've had since 2008.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
atwood wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
Yeah, I figure Chung would have reacted worse to the NK issues.

Remember when he was Unification minister and that family climbed over the embassy walls and unfurled the ROK flag? Remember those defectors that got beaten and hauled back to the North. Do you remember what Chung said about them?

He said that defectors were causing trouble and that he was looking to implement a travel ban on pastors and the like that were flying to China to help defectors. He said they were hurting "Korean Unification"

So yeah, I figure he would have handled things worse. I'm guessing he would have apologized to the DPRK and paid them compensation for the bullet they lost in that tourist.

It sounds like he was doing his job as unification minister. Private citizens, such as the pastors, are usually not a good mix in diplomatic affairs. As president, he may well have reacted quite differently.


So people are getting beaten, tortured, and killed... all for wanting to come to South Korea. These people, that are citizens of this country according to the constitution... and how does he defend them? How does he stand up for their rights?

He doesn't.

That's not the job of the unification minister - not to blindly accept human rights abuses like that - unless of course you're on the side of Chung and Noh... then anything goes so long as it doesn't irk the North.

Your boy is killed by the North - don't talk about it or we'll send gov goons to your house to tell ya to shut it.

Want to help North Korean (read: Koreans) escape a living hell and come to the South, we'll try to stop ya!

You asked for reasoning, and I gave it to you. But yeah, you're right, perhaps he would have suddenly grown a spine when he became president. Perhaps he would have suddenly cared about something other than himself.

By all means, why not bring something to the table of why he would have been a better president?

Park cares about something other than himself? Would you care to elucidate on that?

As far as what is happening in NK, I pretty much see everyone in SK turning a blind eye to it, including the current administration.

I see you haven't addressed the 4 Rivers project. Can you say algae bloom?

And it's hard to imagine an administration as corrupt as Park's. Anything is possible, sure, but probable?

How about the ongoing censorship?

Even so, when your only argument in support of Park is the other guy would have been worse, something no one will ever know, you are standing on some very shaky ground.
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