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War drums for Isreal and Iran
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
The United States was absolutely pushed into Iraq by the Israeli Lobby. Do you know about the Office of Special Plans? That's where the Mossad fed fake intelligence about WMD's and Niger yellowcake into the Pentagon and directly to Cheney.


Actually we do not know who forged the Niger documents. They were apparently released by the Italians.

Quote:
"Quietly lobbying Congress to approve the use of force in Iraq was one of AIPAC's successes over the past year." AIPAC executive director Howard Kohr - from The Israel Lobby

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/robert-siegel-scolds-kalle-lasn.html

Joe Klein:
You want evidence of divided loyalties? How about the “benign domino theory” that so many Jewish neoconservatives talked to me about–off the record, of course–in the runup to the Iraq war, the idea that Israel’s security could be won by taking out Saddam, which would set off a cascade of disaster for Israel’s enemies in the region

and on, and on. Thomas L Friedman even made my argument.

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/11/golden-oldies-tom-friedman-telling-an-arab-society-to-suck-on-this.html
Is the Iraq war the great neoconservative war? It's the war the neoconservatives wanted, Friedman says. It's the war the neoconservatives marketed. Those people had an idea to sell when September 11 came, and they sold it. Oh boy, did they sell it. So this is not a war that the masses demanded. This is a war of an elite. Friedman laughs: I could give you the names of 25 people (all of whom are at this moment within a five-block radius of this office) who, if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened.

etc. Catch up man.


I don't agree that AIPAC itself is responsible for the US invading Iraq but would frame the narrative as Pro-Israel Neo-Cons were responsible.
Israel, Oil, Profits, Elitism, the Military Industrial Complex all played a role. Plus, good old fashioned religious messianism.
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spanky1off



Joined: 21 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

u.s. (and by extention the wests) foreign policy.

1 ) Send CIA Agent Provocateurs
2 ) Start propaganda campain
3 ) Accuse of WMD's such as chemical weapons or nukes to create a fear in home nation
4 ) Paint as dictatorship that overtly denies its own people basic rights such as free speech and assembly
5 ) Order a no fly zone. Lobby the world for a humantarian mission.
6 ) Bomb the shit out of them, jail them, torture and execute them.
7 ) Auction off resources and assets seized to international consortium.
8 ) Establish military bases.
9 ) Install puppet regime to do as instructed.
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Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
The United States was absolutely pushed into Iraq by the Israeli Lobby..................a prime motive for the invasion was to eliminate a threat to Israel


Actually Saudi Arabia was the real reason for the Iraq war.


Quote:
Saudi Arabia real reason for invasion: analyst

Forget Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD). The real reason the United States invaded Iraq was Saudi Arabia, according to a US intelligence analyst.

Dr George Friedman, chairman of the United States private sector intelligence company Stratfor, said the US had settled on WMD as a simple justification for the war and one which it expected the public would readily accept.

Dr Friedman, in Australia on a business trip, said the US administration never wanted to explain the complex reasons for invading Iraq, keeping them from both the public and their closest supporters.

"That, primarily, was the fact that Saudi Arabia was facilitating the transfer of funds to al-Qaeda, was refusing to cooperate with the US and believed in its heart of hearts that the US would never take any action against them," he said.

Dr Friedman said the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the US prompted the strategy to hunt down al-Qaeda wherever it was to be found. But that proved exceedingly difficult.

"The US was desperate. There were no good policy choices," he said.

"Then the US turned to the question: we can't find al-Qaeda so how can we stop the enablers of al-Qaeda."

He said those enablers, the financiers and recruiters, existed in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

But the Saudi government variously took the view that this wasn't true or that they lacked the ability and strength to act, he said.

Dr Friedman said in March last year, the Saudis responded to US pressure by asking the US to remove all its forces and bases from their territory. To their immense surprise, the US did just that, relocating to Qatar.

He said Saudi Arabia and al-Qaeda shared a number of beliefs including that the US could not fight and win a war in the region and was casualty averse. There was a need to change that perception.

But close by was Iraq, the most strategically located nation in the Middle East, bordering Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Turkey and Iran.

"If we held Iraq we felt first there would be dramatic changes of behaviour from the Saudis," he said. "We could also manipulate the Iranians into a change of policy and finally also lean on the Syrians.

"It wasn't a great policy. It happened to be the only policy available."

Dr Friedman said US President George W Bush faced the difficulty of explaining this policy, particularly to the Saudis. Moves to link Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda failed completely.

"They then fell on WMD for two reasons," he said.

"Nobody could object to WMD and it was the one thing that every intelligence agency knew was true.

"We knew we were going to find them. And we would never have to reveal the real reasons.

"The massive intelligence failure was that everybody including Saddam thought he had WMD. He behaved as if he had WMD. He was conned by his own people." AAP

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/03/1080941715525.html



Titus wrote:
the Mossad fed fake intelligence about WMD's and Niger yellowcake into the Pentagon and directly to Cheney


Wrong again... actually Saddam did try to buy Uranium from Niger...


Quote:
Wowie Zahawie

Sorry everyone, but Iraq did go uranium shopping in Niger.

By Christopher Hitchens|Posted Monday, April 10, 2006, at 4:43 PM ET

In the late 1980s, the Iraqi representative to the International Atomic Energy Agency—Iraq's senior public envoy for nuclear matters, in effect—was a man named Wissam al-Zahawie. After the Kuwait war in 1991, when Rolf Ekeus arrived in Baghdad to begin the inspection and disarmament......
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2006/04/wowie_zahawie.html


Looks like the only "fake intelligence" happening here... is in your posts, RJJR/Reggie ...*cough*.. "Titus".
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

George Friedman isn't a "US intelligence analyst". Though he is a zionist.

Quote:

"Quietly lobbying Congress to approve the use of force in Iraq was one of AIPAC's successes over the past year."
AIPAC executive director Howard Kohr - from The Israel Lobby

The horse's mouth.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our Best Friend:

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/08/israels-secret-iran-meeting-between-security-officials-and-rabbi-who-wants-to-annihilate-arabs.html
Quote:
Senior Israeli officials including National Security Advisor Ya'akov Amidror and Interior Minister Eli Yishai held what the Algemeiner calls a "secret meeting" with Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the former Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel, on Friday. Yosef, in his state-funded role as head of Shas's Council of Torah Sages, is the governing coalition party's spiritual leader, while Yishai is its political chief.

Haaretz reports:

Senior defense officials have recently been visiting the ultra-Orthodox Shas party's spiritual leader, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, to discuss a possible Israeli attack on Iran.


Ovadia Yosef is a solid guy:

http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=191782
Quote:
The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews, according to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the head of Shas’s Council of Torah Sages and a senior Sephardi adjudicator.

“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel,” he said in his weekly Saturday night sermon on the laws regarding the actions non-Jews are permitted to perform on Shabbat.

According to Yosef, the lives of non-Jews in Israel are safeguarded by divinity, to prevent losses to Jews.

“In Israel, death has no dominion over them... With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money.

This is his servant... That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew,” Yosef said.

“Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat.

That is why gentiles were created,” he added.


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4229767,00.html

Quote:
What should religious doctors do if a gentile is injured in a car accident on Shabbat and is rushed to the hospital? According to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, this does not warrant violating the sanctity of the Sabbath.

During a class on Sabbath halacha relating to religious physicians, the spiritual leader of Shas said that while doctors are expected to do everything in their power – even if it requires violating the Sabbath – in order to save Jews whose lives are in danger, the same does not apply for gentiles.

"If a gentile were to get injured in a car accident during Sabbath, and he is brought to the hospital – Israel must not treat him," he said, explaining that "if the particular procedures come from rabbis (de-rabbanan), then they might be permitted, but if they stem from prohibitions in the Torah (de-'oraita), then they are not allowed, as the Torah forbids to violate the Sabbath for gentiles."


http://forward.com/articles/161735/rabbi-prays-for-irans-elimination/#ixzz24fihXWQL
Quote:
The spiritual leader of the Sephardi Orthodox Shas party, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, called on Jews to pray on Rosh Hashana for the destruction of Iran and Hezbollah.

The call on Saturday night came more than a week after Yosef was briefed on the threat from Iran by the head of Israel’s National Security Council, Maj.-Gen. Yaakov Amidror.

The meeting reportedly was part of efforts by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to obtain support from government ministers for an Israeli strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities. Shas Chairman Eli Yishai, who is a member of the nine-minister security Cabinet, opposes such a strike.

In Yosef’s weekly Saturday night sermon, he reportedly said: “When we say the blessing over the dates at our Rosh Hashana meal, and we ask to ‘bring an end to our enemies,’ we should be thinking about Iranian rulers, those evil ones who threaten Israel. May the Lord destroy and kill them.”

“We have Hezbollah and we have Iran,” Yosef reportedly said. “May the Lord, blessed be he, eliminate them from the face of the earth.” During the Rosh Hashana meal, some Jews have a tradition of reciting special blessings over foods which use double meanings to bless the new year. The blessing on the date, or tamar, calls on God to finish off our enemies.


Best policy towards Israel is to stand back and let them self-destruct.

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/rav-ovadia-yosef-holds-in-his-hands-the-fate-of-israels-attack-on-iran/2012/08/21/

Quote:
Rav Ovadia Yosef Holds in his Hands the Fate of Israel’s Attack on Iran

...Rav Ovadia Yosef is the key to the entire political and security process in Israel. His influence on his party is prominent and his word has ramifications in wider spheres of influence.


Yes. Iran is the problem.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on Ovadia Yosef:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm
Quote:
The spiritual leader of Israel's ultra-orthodox Shas party, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, has provoked outrage with a sermon calling for the annihilation of Arabs.

"It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable," he was quoted as saying in a sermon delivered on Monday to mark the Jewish festival of Passover.

The Lord shall return the Arabs' deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them

Through his influence over Shas, Israel's third largest political party, he is also a significant political figure.

As founder and spiritual leader of the political party Shas, Rabbi Yosef is held in almost saintly regard by hundreds of thousands of Jews of Middle Eastern and North African origin.


http://www.haaretz.com/news/u-s-money-laundering-suspects-linked-to-shas-spiritual-leader-1.280747

Quote:
Government sources believe that one of the aftereffects of the massive money-laundering and illegal organ trading case that broke this week will be a sharp decline in donations to Israeli yeshivas, particularly those linked with the ultra-Orthodox party Shas and its spiritual leader, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef.

Three New Jersey mayors and several rabbis were arrested last Thursday in a sweeping federal investigation into political corruption that also uncovered human kidney sales and money laundering from Brooklyn to Israel.

Sources say that the wave of donations received by Israel's Sephardic yeshivas will significantly diminish as the scandal breaks, even by Jewish bodies unrelated to the affair who want to distance themselves from it.

One of the main suspects in the money laundering case is Rabbi Eliyahu Ben-Haim, who is a close associate of Rabbi David Yosef, Ovadia Yosef's son. Ben Haim is also very active in the Yechavei Da'at organization, headed by Rabbi Ovadia Yosef's family.


Wow.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

catman wrote:
Titus wrote:
The United States was absolutely pushed into Iraq by the Israeli Lobby. Do you know about the Office of Special Plans? That's where the Mossad fed fake intelligence about WMD's and Niger yellowcake into the Pentagon and directly to Cheney.


Actually we do not know who forged the Niger documents. They were apparently released by the Italians.


The Italians! Bravo

Karen Kwiatkowski, who was employed by the Office and claims to have been in on the whole process, states it was Mossad. Not "The Italians".

The Italians. The Saudi's. What will people dream up after the war in Iran is lost? It was the Finns? The Mexicans?
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
catman wrote:
Titus wrote:
The United States was absolutely pushed into Iraq by the Israeli Lobby. Do you know about the Office of Special Plans? That's where the Mossad fed fake intelligence about WMD's and Niger yellowcake into the Pentagon and directly to Cheney.


Actually we do not know who forged the Niger documents. They were apparently released by the Italians.


The Italians! Bravo

Karen Kwiatkowski, who was employed by the Office and claims to have been in on the whole process, states it was Mossad. Not "The Italians".

The Italians. The Saudi's. What will people dream up after the war in Iran is lost? It was the Finns? The Mexicans?


Italian intelligence did release the forged documents. If they were actually responsible for their forgery is a different questions. Right now we have no proof either way.
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Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
George Friedman isn't a "US intelligence analyst". Though he is a zionist.


Titus your own sources use George Friedman.

Quote:
As an unsigned analysis coming out of Stratfor.com put it in May of last year, the “strategic goal” of the Bush administration wasn’t to implant “democracy” or even to ensure the stability and unity of Iraq, but “to acquire projection capabilities from within Iraq that would allow Washington to pressure the entire Middle East, from Iran to Saudi Arabia to Egypt.”

These future wars would never come off, however, “if U.S. troops were bogged down in a guerrilla war with no end in sight.” No, that would never do. The present situation is “untenable,” which is why it is thought necessary to move troops “out of harm’s way” – without, of course, Washington “abandoning its broader goals in the Middle East.” Yes, the Iraqi state midwifed by American troops seems to be stillborn, or perhaps fated for an early death, but we’ll muddle through somehow if we keep our “broader goals” in mind. Besides which, we never really cared that much about building “democracy,” in the short term at least. Or, as the Stratfor analyst put it:

“The United States does not want – and it has no interest in – policing Iraq, day in and day out. The U.S. goal is to be able to pressure Iraq’s neighbors, not to babysit the Iraqis.”

So, what to do? Stratfor lays out three options, one of which – complete withdrawal – is “unrealistic.” How so? “Not only would it be an embarrassment, it would be a strategic failure of mammoth proportions.” Yeah, that sounds pretty bad, until one asks: why is that an undesirable outcome? After all, it depends on what sort of policy our strategy has been founded on: the “strategic failure” of a bad policy – a murderous, costly, and immoral policy of conquest and the pursuit of Empire – would be a good thing, provided that failure is acknowledged and the right lesson learned. http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2005/07/13/iraq-the-phony-withdrawal/




Quote:
Who or what is this “armed entity not mentioned in the protocol” – or in many of the news reports on events in Syria? Where do they get their arms? Stratfor says mostly from Lebanon, but there is also the border with Turkey:

“Supply routes emanating from Lebanon are the most critical to the FSA, as they run closest to critical opposition strongholds in and around the capital and in the Sunni-majority cities of Homs and Hama. The porous Syrian-Turkish border is the safest for the FSA to cross. Ankara has already established several refugee camps for Syrians on the Turkish border and has been hosting the FSA and Syrian National Council leaderships. Foreign covert assistance to the FSA is also likely taking place on the Turkish side of the Syrian border, where stockpiles can be protected and Turkish armed forces can provide some cover for FSA rebels moving to and from Syria.”
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/02/05/the-syrian-crucible/


YOUR OWN SOURCES USE STRATFOR TITUS.

So which is it? Are your sources which you use over and over again unreliable?
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Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
More on Ovadia Yosef:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm
Quote:
The spiritual leader of Israel's ultra-orthodox Shas party, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, has provoked outrage with a sermon calling for the annihilation of Arabs.

"It is forbidden to be merciful to them.


*Remarks regarding Arabs and Palestinians

Quote:
In 2001 Yosef was quoted as calling for the annihilation of Arabs, instructing his followers that "It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable."[38] Yosef later said that his sermon was misquoted, that he was referring to annihilation of Islamic terrorism and not of all Arabs.[39] He called for improving the living conditions of the Arab people in Israel, and said that he has deep respect for peace seeking Arabs.[40]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovadia_Yosef
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Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
The Saudi's. What will people dream up


Quote:
Leak: 'Saudi King on Iran: Cut off the head of the snake' WikiLeaks release of US Embassy cable,
http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/News/Article.aspx?id=197114


Titus wrote:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4229767,00.html

What should religious doctors do if a gentile is injured in a car accident on Shabbat and is rushed to the hospital? According to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, this does not warrant violating the sanctity of the Sabbath.

During a class on Sabbath halacha relating to religious physicians, the spiritual leader of Shas said that while doctors are expected to do everything in their power – even if it requires violating the Sabbath – in order to save Jews whose lives are in danger, the same does not apply for gentiles.

"If a gentile were to get injured in a car accident during Sabbath, and he is brought to the hospital – Israel must not treat him," he said, explaining that "if the particular procedures come from rabbis (de-rabbanan), then they might be permitted, but if they stem from prohibitions in the Torah (de-'oraita), then they are not allowed, as the Torah forbids to violate the Sabbath for gentiles."


Why didn't you quote the rest of the article?

Quote:
The rabbi offered a halachic solution that follows a rule by which if a single person is doing the act, he is violating the Sabbath, while if two people are doing it together, they are exempt.

"The doctor who needs to operate will call on another doctor, or nurse, to hold the scalpel together and make the incision," said Rabbi Yosef, saying that "it is necessary in order for religious physicians to refrain from being put on trial for distinguishing between a Jew and a gentile on Sabbath."
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Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Yes. Iran is the problem.


Titus I want to take the time to thank you in advance for the chance to do this comparison. It is only starting now.

Quote:

Persecution of members of the Mandaean Religion in Iran
The Mandaeans in Iran primarily occupy an area of the city of Ahwaz called Khuzistan. Ahwaz lies close to the border with Iraq, and its population is overwhelmingly Shi’ite Moslem.

The Mandaean religion is not recognised as a legal religion under Article 13 of the Iranian Constitution. Consequently they are discriminated against in all policy decisions:

In Iran, particularly severe persecution of minority religions, including executions of Mandaeans and of Baha’is, continues.

All religious minorities suffer varying degrees of officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education and housing.

Recognised religious minorities are second class citizens. Non-believers and non recognised religions are deprived of any rights.

The following are examples of incidents which characterise everyday life for Mandaeans in Iran. The intensity of these acts varies and the consequences can be very severe.

“Uncleanliness”
The Mandaeans are considered unclean by Moslems, and encounter difficulties when shopping. They are not allowed to touch a Moslem or work in the food industry as they are perceived to render unclean everything they touch. A Mandaean who accidentally touches an item may be confronted with the demand to buy the entire stock as it has been rendered ‘unclean’.

Disruption of Mandaean family life: forced marriage and sexual assault
In her most recent report to Amnesty International, Professor J.J. Buckley -- an internationally recognised specialist on the Mandaean religion -- has stressed that “the attempt to destroy Mandaean families is increasing, but with a particular focus on women and young girls.” The Mandaean Human Rights Committee has also documented that the Iranian authorities attempt to break up Mandaean families with a particular focus on women and children, pressuring them to convert to Islam and pressuring women to marry Moslem men. Further reports, including those produced by ASUTA (the Journal for the Study and Research into the Mandaean Culture, Religion and Language) indicate that Mandaean parents fear that their children will be kidnapped, and forcibly circumcised, converted to Islam, raped or forcibly married. Regarding the rape of Mandaean girls and women, several reports suggest that Islamic judges would hold that a Moslem male who raped a Mandaean female would be understood to have “purified” her. Accordingly, the Sabian Mandaean Association reports that Mandaean girls have been raped with impunity by Moslem men.

Professor Buckley stresses that Mandaean widows are pressured to marry Moslem men, and that widows have been subject to sexual attacks. Further, Professor Buckley highlights that “[s]ome Mandaean families have begun to marry their very young daughters to fellow-Mandaeans, in order to prevent forced conversions to Islam, thus depriving the girls of the chance to finish their education.” This trend is supported by reports produced by the Mandaean Research Centre, and was also referred to during an interview with a Mandaean from Ahwaz who stated that “[m]any Mandaeans are being forced to marry their daughters at a very young age in order to protect them from being kidnapped off the streets by the local Moslems.”

Medical Assistance
It is difficult for Mandaeans to receive medical assistance due to the view that they are unclean. If a Moslem practitioner treats a Mandaean, the doctor is believed to be rendered unclean and will not be able to treat Moslem patients. However it is difficult to see Mandaean doctors as their qualifications from overseas are not recognized within the Islamic Republic of Iran, and they are often therefore forced to hide the fact that they are Mandaeans in order to be able to work as health professionals. It is important to note that reports consistently indicate that while the older generation of Mandaeans was able to study in universities prior to the Islamic Revolution, Mandaeans’ access to universities is currently severely restricted, and therefore it is almost entirely impossible for Mandaeans to study medicine. In terms of compensation for injury, the US State Department indicates that “the legal system discriminates against religious minorities, awarding lower monetary compensation in injury and death lawsuits.”
http://www.iranian.com/BTW/2005/July/Mandaean/index.html



Quote:
Khomeini fatwa 'led to killing of 30,000 in Iran'

By Christina Lamb, Diplomatic Correspondent12:00AM GMT 04 Feb 2001

CHILDREN as young as 13 were hanged from cranes, six at a time, in a barbaric two-month purge of Iran's prisons on the direct orders of Ayatollah Khomeini, according to a new book by his former deputy.
More than 30,000 political prisoners were executed in the 1988 massacre - a far larger number than previously suspected. Secret documents smuggled out of Iran reveal that, because of the large numbers of necks to be broken, prisoners were loaded onto forklift trucks in groups of six and hanged from cranes in half-hourly intervals.
Gruesome details are contained in the memoirs of Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri, The Memoirs of Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, one of the founders of the Islamic regime. He was once considered Khomeini's anointed successor, but was deposed for his outspokenness, and is now under house arrest in the holy city of Qom.
Published privately last month after attempts by the regime to suppress it, the revelations have prompted demands from Iranian exiles for those involved to be tried for crimes against humanity. The most damning of the letters and documents published in the book is Khomeini's fatwa decree calling for all Mojahedin (as opponents of the Iranian regime are known) to be killed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/1321090/Khomeini-fatwa-led-to-killing-of-30000-in-Iran.html
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Martin Dempsey. Similar to the last Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Michael Mullen, Dempsey doesn't seem to be buying the Israeli story on Iran and War for Zionistan.

Mullen actually went to Israel and told them not to try any false flag BS like Liberty.

http://blogs.alternet.org/michaelcollinsdc/2010/07/08/ray-mcgovern-and-robert-parry-on-truth-unflinching-and-the-price-of-integrity/
Quote:
McGovern also reported frank talks between the current head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Michael Mullen, and Israeli leaders during which Mullen made a point clearly on an Israeli attack on Iran – don’t even think of it!. McGovern said that Mullen added emphasis by noting that he was old enough to recall the unprovoked and uninvestigated attack on the U.S.S. Liberty by Israeli fighters in the 1967 Israeli-Arab war.


http://www.haaretz.com/news/iran-any-attack-on-our-nuclear-facility-will-be-beginning-of-war-1.249094
Quote:
One of Mullen's hosts noted at the end of the visit that even though Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi and the other senior officers did not discuss operational coordination, it was mentioned during discussions that both sides would like to avoid mistaken confrontations, of the sort that led to the IDF attack against the U.S. Navy ship, Liberty, in June 1967.


Dempsey, an Irish-American like Mullen, is a major stumbling block in the quest for another war to Save the Jews.

First, Dempsey refuses to stay on script:

http://antiwar.com/blog/2012/08/01/the-power-of-war-propaganda-on-iran-and-how-it-works
Quote:
A new poll finds 80% of Americans think Iran has a nuclear weapons program and that it is a threat to the US and its NATO allies. The poll, commissioned by The Israel Project, asked likely voters and found “72% of Democrats, 81% of independents and 89% of Republicans were convinced the Iranians were building nuclear weapons.”

...

But false beliefs persist even when there has been ample reassurances from elite sources in politics, the military, and the news media that Iran has no weapons program. A matter of months ago, the Obama administration marched out their minions, from Defense Secretary Leon Panetta to Director of National Intelligence James Clapper to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey, all of whom reiterated the fact that Iran has no nuclear weapons program, despite constant rhetoric to the contrary.


(80% of Americans think Iran has nuclear weapons!)

Mullen then put the Israeli's in their place. He said, basically, "bitch please, sit the fk down":

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4269041,00.html
Quote:
Once every few years Israel needs a slap in the face to remember where it stands in the world. On Tuesday it was US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Martin Dempsey who assumed the role of the responsible adult and slapped Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak, the duo orchestrating the national hysteria surrounding the possibility of an attack in Iran.

Israel can "delay but not destroy Iran's nuclear capabilities," he said while sitting next to Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, who visited Israel a few weeks ago to allay the concerns of the leadership in Jerusalem.

Dempsey's comments should be taken seriously, as should the stern message conveyed by Panetta, the White House and the American security establishment: If we can't reason with you, the Israelis, we will have to get tough.

The general's remark was not a slip-of-the-tongue. It was a calculated statement from a general of Irish descent and character. His words constituted a slap in Israel's face, a punch in the face, and a kick to the most sensitive part of the body. To be more precise, the US slammed Israel's head against the wall and said: "Shut up. Stop babbling about Iran. Without us there is not much you can do, and don't assume for a second that we are dancing to your tune. You shouldn't do anything stupid, and stop driving the entire world crazy."

This was the message behind Dempsey's comment.


Dempsey challenges the very core of Israeli propaganda on Iran:

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/03/01/435346/dempsey-iran-rational-actor/?mobile=nc
Quote:
Chairman Of Joint Chiefs Of Staff Stands By Assessment That Iran Is A Rational Actor


A couple days ago Dempsey was perfectly clear:

http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/uk/61330
Quote:
Speaking In London, Gen. Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that an Israeli strike would "clearly delay but probably not destroy Iran's nuclear program." "I don't want to be complicit if they (Israel) choose to do it," he added.

He said that the international pressure on Iran was having an impact and an Israeli strike would cancel that progress. 3What is clear is that the "international coalition" applying pressure on Iran "could be undone if Iran was attacked prematurely."


The "international coalition" - meaning the US and Israel - "could be undone". Almost makes we want Israel to attack.

With individuals like Mullen and Dempsey standing the the path of the hysterical war mongers the US might actually avoid another war.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://world.time.com/2012/08/31/exclusive-u-s-scales-back-military-exercise-with-israel-affecting-potential-iran-strike/
Quote:

Seven months ago, Israel and the United States postponed a massive joint military exercise that was originally set to go forward just as concerns were brimming that Israel would launch a strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities. The exercise was rescheduled for late October, and appears likely to go forward on the cusp of the U.S. presidential election. But it won’t be nearly the same exercise. Well-placed sources in both countries have told TIME that Washington has greatly reduced the scale of U.S. participation, slashing by more than two-thirds the number of American troops going to Israel and reducing both the number and potency of missile interception systems at the core of the joint exercise.

“Basically what the Americans are saying is, ‘We don’t trust you,’” a senior Israeli military official tells TIME.


Excellent.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/bitter-jerusalem-slams-us-for-lack-of-determination-in-face-of-irans-nuclear-drive/

Quote:
Israel responded bitterly on Friday to comments by the chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey, who said on Thursday that he did not want “to be complicit” if Israel were to strike at Iran’s nuclear facilities.

Dempsey’s comments were “strange” and characterized the failure of the United States to take a determined position against Iran’s nuclear drive, a source in Jerusalem was quoted as saying.

The comments “show once again that the US is not demonstrating determination against Iran’s nuclear program,” the source said, according to Israel’s Channel 2 news.

“It is strange that next to the oaths and blood libels of [Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali] Khamenei, the production in Iran [a reference to this week's Non-Aligned Movement summit], and the [latest] IAEA report — which states that Iran is speeding up uranium enrichment under its nose — the American chief of staff decides to talk about [an Israeli strike] rather than giving a determined message to the Iranians,” the source said.

Speaking to journalists in London, Dempsey on Thursday made by far the clearest public comments from a senior American official distancing the US from any Israeli strike on Iran. He said an Israeli attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities, which is reportedly being seriously contemplated by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, would “clearly delay but probably not destroy Iran’s nuclear program.” Then he added: “I don’t want to be complicit if they [Israel] choose to do it.”

The “international coalition” applying pressure on Iran, warned Dempsey, “could be undone if [Iran] was attacked prematurely”. Sanctions against Iran were having an effect, and they should be given a reasonable chance to succeed, he added.

Israeli commentators made much Friday of Dempsey’s use of the word “complicit.” The US army chief could have said he did not want to be Israel’s “partner” or its “ally” in an attack on Iran, noted analyst Oren Nahari on Channel 1 state TV, but instead Dempsey employed a term with criminal connotations.


...

Two weeks ago, Shavit noted, Israel’s President Shimon Peres publicly placed his faith in President Obama to thwart Iran’s drive to the bomb. America’s current policy, emblemized by Dempsey’s comments, said Shavit, “constitutes a resounding slap in the office for Peres and those other Israeli moderates who want to place their faith in the US.”

..

Why, for instance, Shavit went on, did the US not condemn the Non-Aligned Movement gathering in Tehran. And why, asked Shavit, didn’t Obama “respond in his own voice to the IAEA report, which essentially said, ‘Mr Obama, you have failed’?”

Regional analyst Oded Granot said on the same program that Iran “does not think Obama will act” by force to stop its nuclear program.

On Channel 2, diplomatic reporter Udi Segal said comments like Dempsey’s might be bolstering the sense in the Israeli leadership that “maybe there’s no-one else who’s going to help us.”


Maybe nobody will.
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as I deplore Obama's foreign policy he is still a safer bet than Romney and the neo-cons. If the latter wins in November you can guarantee the bombs will be falling on Iran within two years.
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