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Voter Fraud
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
visitorq wrote:
sirius black wrote:
AGAIN, the ONLY credible acts have been acts against Obama. Try again. Didn't see Blacks or Latinos rioting over Bush and Cheney...and they had far better reasons than the ones the FBI caught trying to bring down Obama. hahaha...try again.

Oh please. There haven't been race riots in the US in recent history? You think times have changed so much that you refuse to even entertain the possibility it will happen again? Who do you think you're fooling?

Here, let me help you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_riots#Modern



--- None of those modern riots were caused by a presidential election.
--- Furthermore they were isolated to one city per incident.
----And they were limited to six states (out of 50)
--- And in the previous two times when a black person ran for President/presidential nomination (Jesse Jackson and Shirley Chisholm) there were no riots when they lost out.

Which makes the possibility of a nationwide race riot (no matter WHO wins) extremely remote and tenuous.

Yes it's possible

But by the same token it's (highly) improbable.

Who said anything about a "nationwide" riot? None of your points dispel the notion that there may be race riots in some parts of the country if Obama loses. The comparison to Jesse Jackson is untenable since it's doubtful anyone had any expectation at all that he could ever win. Obama is a different story. If he's voted out, a lot of race-obsessed people will see it as a validation of all their complaints (imagined or otherwise).

I can't believe anyone on here actually considers the possibility of riots to be "extremely remote and tenuous". There have been riots sparked over less significant events than the only black president in history being thrown out of office by the electorate.

Also, the list goes back much further than the 80's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_riots#War_and_Inter-War_Period:_1914_-_1945
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_riots#Postwar_era:_1946_-_1954
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_riots#Civil_Rights_and_Black_Power_Movement.27s_Period:_1955_-_1977

Actually, I would say the chance of their not being any sort of riots (should Obama lose) is more remote. Anyway, I'm certainly not hoping for it, nor am I saying it's guaranteed to happen. Just saying I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it does happen.


I would think that right wing terror is at least as likely if Romney loses, and considering the odds we'll probably never know about your "race riots".
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
I would think that right wing terror is at least as likely if Romney loses, and considering the odds we'll probably never know about your "race riots".

I post links listing dozens of race riots in modern US history, and they're "my race riots" for pointing it out? What planet do you live on? Do you not remember the LA riots? This sort of thing is not even remotely far-fetched, it has happened many times.

As for "right wing terror", I don't really have a comment since it's a separate issue and I'm not even sure exactly what you mean. Are you thinking Obama getting re-elected could trigger an Oklahoma City bombing type of event? I suppose it's possible, but the odds seem far more remote to me than race riots if Obama loses... Just being realistic here, as I see it.
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
Leon wrote:
I would think that right wing terror is at least as likely if Romney loses, and considering the odds we'll probably never know about your "race riots".

I post links listing dozens of race riots in modern US history, and they're "my race riots" for pointing it out? What planet do you live on? Do you not remember the LA riots? This sort of thing is not even remotely far-fetched, it has happened many times.

As for "right wing terror", I don't really have a comment since it's a separate issue and I'm not even sure exactly what you mean. Are you thinking Obama getting re-elected could trigger an Oklahoma City bombing type of event? I suppose it's possible, but the odds seem far more remote to me than race riots if Obama loses... Just being realistic here, as I see it.


I'm not denying that there are race riots, just that there are no signs that there would be one if Obama lost. They are typically caused by police mistreatment, but I can't recall one ever happening due to election results. Dude, there have been several right wing things recently, such as the Sikh temple thing and the soldiers caught planning to assisinate Obama.
http://m.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/08/prosecutors-us-soldiers-plotted-kill-president-obama/56238/
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
sirius black wrote:
AGAIN, the ONLY credible acts have been acts against Obama. Try again. Didn't see Blacks or Latinos rioting over Bush and Cheney...and they had far better reasons than the ones the FBI caught trying to bring down Obama. hahaha...try again.

Oh please. There haven't been race riots in the US in recent history? You think times have changed so much that you refuse to even entertain the possibility it will happen again? Who do you think you're fooling?

Here, let me help you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_riots#Modern


Silly argument and reasoning. Blacks have had riots before so they will riot now? Silly. The same reasoning says had Obama lost in '08 there would have been riots. You're even looking at the 'whys' of previous riots.
You're fearing a race riot over your own fear and paranoia, possible prejudice and nothing else. Law enforcement, the FBI, the people who actually track these things and they are far more knowledgeable and in a better position to know than you are, aren't concerned. The FBI are far, far more concerned about Titus and his ultra right wing militia aryan buddies who actually want a race war..lol.
The ONLY credible and probable act of violence from the elections are and have been militant whites. That's a fact. No other way to cut that pie.

Wonder if the Mormons will riot? Rolling Eyes
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
I think much will depend on how the election unfolds.

I think if there are widespread cases of fraud, tampering or even physical prevention of people getting to the polls, I think there could be rioting. On the other hand, if it looked like a fair election, I think people will act accordingly.

I also think the country is the most divided it has been since the U.S. Civil War and I think this election has a chance to be the closest, or at least one of the closest, elections in U.S. history.

I also think Obama will go down as one of the most polarizing presidents in U.S. history; people's point of view of him are shockingly disparate from my point of view.


I'm curious to know what Obama has done (or hasn't done) to have polarized us presumably based on race from what i gather from your post since the Civil War is mentioned.

Just curious as to your reasoning.
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think some people think Obama is a black socialist, who has established death panels to kill your grandma and is out to get revenge for on whites for black injustice.

I think others think Obama is a homocidal maniac who is out to start foreign wars and enjoys the idea of killing Americans and Arabs.

I think others think he is a mouthpiece for Wall Street whose goal is fool the rabble into believing that Obama can protect the rabble from Wall Street while Obama lets Wall Street do whatever they want.

I think others see him as a dupe for Israel.

I think others see him as a Muslim who is trying Islamicize America and has drifted

And, yet to others, he is one of the greatest Presidents since World War II, who has signed into law two historic legistlations (Health Care and an end to Don't Ask Don't Tell), who has worked hard to clean up the mess that George Bush left, (preventing a Great Depression, improving the U.S. image abroad, and who has worked tirelessly to end two foreign wars). While President, the U.S. government has actually spent less than anytime since Eisenhower. He has worked to make less regulations. His foreign policy has lead to the death of Osama Bin Laden and promoted democracy in the Middle East with minimal U.S. casualties. And, he has had one of the most scandal free whitehouses ever! And, he has even come out for gay marriage. The list of accomplishments goes on and on actually...including being a fairly good administrator (as shown with Sandy)...all despite the fact that the Republicans have been trying to ambush everything he has tried to accomplish putting the Republican political interests above the national interests.

So, yes, I see him as a very polarizing figure. I don't think it is because of anything he has done. But, I think Americans have come to view him extremely disparately. You either like him or you see him as evil incarnate - that is a pretty disparate view. And, yes, I do think race and racism does play some role in it. While I don't think anybody would admit it openly, I do think a fear of black people does play some role in this disparity of view but I don't think it is the only reason.

Just my two cents and you can take it for whatever it is worth.
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actionjackson



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Any place I'm at

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
Well, I think some people think Obama is a black socialist, who has established death panels to kill your grandma and is out to get revenge for on whites for black injustice.

I think others think Obama is a homocidal maniac who is out to start foreign wars and enjoys the idea of killing Americans and Arabs.

I think others think he is a mouthpiece for Wall Street whose goal is fool the rabble into believing that Obama can protect the rabble from Wall Street while Obama lets Wall Street do whatever they want.

I think others see him as a dupe for Israel.

I think others see him as a Muslim who is trying Islamicize America and has drifted

And, yet to others, he is one of the greatest Presidents since World War II, who has signed into law two historic legistlations (Health Care and an end to Don't Ask Don't Tell), who has worked hard to clean up the mess that George Bush left, (preventing a Great Depression, improving the U.S. image abroad, and who has worked tirelessly to end two foreign wars). While President, the U.S. government has actually spent less than anytime since Eisenhower. He has worked to make less regulations. His foreign policy has lead to the death of Osama Bin Laden and promoted democracy in the Middle East with minimal U.S. casualties. And, he has had one of the most scandal free whitehouses ever! And, he has even come out for gay marriage. The list of accomplishments goes on and on actually...including being a fairly good administrator (as shown with Sandy)...all despite the fact that the Republicans have been trying to ambush everything he has tried to accomplish putting the Republican political interests above the national interests.

So, yes, I see him as a very polarizing figure. I don't think it is because of anything he has done. But, I think Americans have come to view him extremely disparately. You either like him or you see him as evil incarnate - that is a pretty disparate view. And, yes, I do think race and racism does play some role in it. While I don't think anybody would admit it openly, I do think a fear of black people does play some role in this disparity of view but I don't think it is the only reason.

Just my two cents and you can take it for whatever it is worth.


Oh, I got one. I was watching interviews of people at a Romney rally and one nice old lady said he was a 20 year follower of Jeremiah Right, Islamic, atheist. When pressed further on which one he was, he was all of 'em.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirius black wrote:
Silly argument and reasoning. Blacks have had riots before so they will riot now? Silly.

Rolling Eyes

Yeah, how silly of me to look at a historical tendency continuing until very recently and extrapolate its distinct possibility in the present. I should just ignore all the evidence and pretend it doesn't exist, for the sake of political correctness...
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:


I can't believe anyone on here actually considers the possibility of riots to be "extremely remote and tenuous". There have been riots sparked over less significant events than the only black president in history being thrown out of office by the electorate.

.



I consider it to be "extremely remote and tenuous" because I don't recall any race riots over any type of election results before (at least in modern times). The vast majority of those riots apparently were sparked by police brutality/incompetence, either real or perceived.

If you can list some recent riots that were directly caused by election results...this would lead support to your theory.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
sirius black wrote:
Silly argument and reasoning. Blacks have had riots before so they will riot now? Silly.

Rolling Eyes

Yeah, how silly of me to look at a historical tendency continuing until very recently and extrapolate its distinct possibility in the present. I should just ignore all the evidence and pretend it doesn't exist, for the sake of political correctness...


The original question was whether Blacks are likely to riot if Obama loses, NOT that Blacks have had riots. Obviously there have been riots. Not only by Blacks but others as well.

The question of the likelihood of Blacks rioting if Obama loses is very remote. Remote enough not to be considered worth of worry or discussion. THAT is the point.

You and I are NOT experts on whether Blacks will riot. Law enforcement monitors these things and they are not worried and don't see it as a plausible threat. What they have deemed viable are far right wing nuts, which have come to fruition.

There are multiple incidents (Trayvon Martin, numerous suspicious police shootings of blacks) that have come and gone without a riot.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your response unposter. I can see the end to don't ask, don't tell and nationalized health care as polarizing. This is not directed at you, but I don't see how these things can have a polarizing effect on race relations since they are race neutral acts. Which is what I thought you were hinting at.

I think ANY President who ended don't ask, don't tell and instituted national health care would have a polarizing effect because they usher in a change in society.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voter fraud is a miniscule problem (if problem is even the right word). Voter repression is the issue in this election. Having said that:

Question: Some Republicans are on record as saying that voting is not a right, it is a privilege. Do you agree? (I do not. In my opinion, voting is the fundamental right in a democratic republic, and all other rights flow from it.)

As one poster (newb) said, we need some kind of simple ID that everyone has. Titus, my mom is 88 and no longer drives. She does not have a driver's license. She first voted in 1948. In my opinion, she should not be denied the right to vote because of her age. Her mind is fine. Her hearing isn't what it used to be. Her physical reactions aren't what they used to be. It would be a danger to herself and others for her to continue to drive. However, she is sharp as a tack and loathes Romney...She is sharp as a tack SO loathes Romney...Do you need any other proof? There are millions of people who do not drive to work. They take buses. Should that fact disqualify them from voting?

$25 may not seem like much to you, but charging for an ID in order to qualify to vote is a poll tax. Does an unemployed person who is pinching pennies in order to eat not deserve to vote?

I agree with bb that it should not be necessary because there is little to no voter fraud—voter suppression is the real issue today. But having a simple national ID would simplify things. We need to find a way to pacify the wingnuts among us so that we can have elections without stirring up the paranoia of the far right.

In my view, we need to amend the Voting Rights Act so that Florida and Ohio (and any other darn state that can't get its act together to run a simple election, cycle after cycle) get included in the supervision. I would not be averse to having Secretaries of (the various) State(s) executed by firing squads on TV when they fail to run honest and open elections (although I generally oppose capital punishment). If the Supreme Court decides this term to void the Voting Rights Act, I will seriously consider going home and buying a gun to start hunting judges.

This ain't gonna happen more than once a decade or so, but I agree with visitorq: there is a definite possibility of civil unrest no matter what the outcome of the election is.

In my estimation, we are in 1830 when South Carolina first threatened to secede. We are again aligning along racial lines...thank you so much Richard Nixon/Ronald Reagan and for bringing back the conservative Southern Strategy! (Interesting that in the 19th Century the Dems were the conservative party and brought on civil war...now...)
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actionjackson



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Any place I'm at

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Voter fraud is a miniscule problem (if problem is even the right word). Voter repression is the issue in this election. Having said that


I think this notion is pretty much right on point.

Quote:
Steve Schmidt, a former senior strategist to Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) 2008 presidential campaign, admitted that widespread voter fraud doesn’t exist in the United States and claimed that the GOP-backed voter ID laws are based on “mythology.”
Appearing on MSNBC on Monday morning, Schmidt derided the hysteria surrounding ineligible voters casting ballots:

SCHIMDT: I think that one of the things you always want to be for whether you’re a Democrat or Republican, you want everyone who is eligible to vote to vote. That’s how you want to win elections. I think that all of this stuff that has transpired over the last two years is in search of a solution to a problem, voting fraud, that doesn’t really exist when you look deeply at the question. It’s part of the mythology now in the Republican Party that there’s widespread voter fraud across the country. In fact, there’s not. Both sides are lawyered up to the nth degree and they’ll all posture back and forth on it but it probably won’t come down to lawyers.


However I'm not really sure about his last statement, as I believe I've already read that motions have been filed in court.
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detonate



Joined: 16 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/06/judge-issuing-order-to-reinstate-booted-philadelphia-election-officials/
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actionjackson



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Any place I'm at

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdpGd74DrBM&feature=youtu.be

Quote:
My wife and I went to the voting booths this morning before work. There were 4 older ladies running the show and 3 voting booths that are similar to a science fair project in how they fold up. They had an oval VOTE logo on top center and a cartridge slot on the left that the volunteers used to start your ballot.

I initially selected Obama but Romney was highlighted. I assumed it was being picky so I deselected Romney and tried Obama again, this time more carefully, and still got Romney. Being a software developer, I immediately went into troubleshoot mode. I first thought the calibration was off and tried selecting Jill Stein to actually highlight Obama. Nope. Jill Stein was selected just fine. Next I deselected her and started at the top of Romney's name and started tapping very closely together to find the 'active areas'. From the top of Romney's button down to the bottom of the black checkbox beside Obama's name was all active for Romney. From the bottom of that same checkbox to the bottom of the Obama button (basically a small white sliver) is what let me choose Obama. Stein's button was fine. All other buttons worked fine.

I asked the voters on either side of me if they had any problems and they reported they did not. I then called over a volunteer to have a look at it. She him hawed for a bit then calmly said "It's nothing to worry about, everything will be OK." and went back to what she was doing. I then recorded this video.

There is a lot of speculation that the footage is edited. I'm not a video guy, but if it's possible to prove whether a video has been altered or not, I will GLADLY provide the raw footage to anyone who is willing to do so. The jumping frames are a result of the shitty camera app on my Android phone, nothing more.
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