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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unibrow wrote:

Like I said I studied history at university.


Oh, thank God. Because, you know, very few of us here on the Korean teacher's board have a college degree. And so few of the teachers who do have a bachelor's have it in the humanities, particularly history.

Its times like this I miss Gopher.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unibrow wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
Unibrow wrote:
Fox wrote:
Unibrow wrote:
The US deliberately spread smallpox and other disease throughout the Native American population (smallpox blankets)


Oh yes?

Quote:
Thomas Jefferson was quick to grasp the immense importance of vaccination. Receiving a delegation of North American Indian Chieftains in Washington in the winter of 1801-1802, he persuaded them all to be vaccinated and to take back to their tribes supplies of vaccine. He further promoted vaccination among the Indians, directing Meriwether Lewis and William Clark to "carry with you some matter of the kinepox (cowpox), inform those of them with whom you may be of its efficiency as a preservative from the smallpox, and instruct and encourage them in the use of it."


Moreover, if Americans had actually wanted to commit genocide, there would not be a single native American left living today in the continental United States. Perhaps we ought to stop leaning so hard on narrative? You might find the tale of the evil white man to be compelling, but the tale of the imperfect white man would be a better fit.


You're quite uninformed on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#United_States_of_America


The evil white man theme is soooo 90s. Then again maybe I just think that because I was in HS and college then. Perhaps I should just say: stop sounding like you're a freshman or sophomore in college.


Like I said I studied history at university. The new American nation repeatedly broke treaties, killed natives, annexed land, forced the relocation of hundreds of thousands of people, spread disease and alcohol through native tribes, and gradually drove the Native population to the bantustans we know today in. Learn some history before you speak. The crimes of European and American imperialism across the world are terrible and ongoing. Turn off Glenn Beck.


So you're really wanting to fit a stereotype. Good job.

Wow, you studied history like many of us other posters here. Sadly it seems like you went to a university that fits the GOP stereotype of colleges being bastions of extreme left-wing thought.

Let me guess, you had to read a lot of Howard Zinn?

Regardless, I am fully aware of what us white people (not just those connected to the US government but others NOT connected to the government such as settlers, early Mormons, and various other parties) did to Native Americans. My point was merely you merely regurgitate what I've read and heard over and over from rather left-wing teachers, professors, and authors (such as Zinn and the now discredited Churchill). As far as the "crimes" of western imperialism: a) there is nothing uniquely western about it. Other parts of the world have also engaged in such activities (hello Japan and China!) b) I don't think you would find too many historians or political scientists who would dispute that colonialism still impacts the world today. The current prime example would probably be Syria.

And to further prove your lack of original thought, you counter Fox with an infantile insult and a wikipedia link. Nothing more. Hate to break it to you, but the world isn't as black and white as you would like it to be...

BTW, I have only seen snippets of Glenn Beck (generally on the Daily Show) and am not sure what he has to do with anything. I guess you're implying I'm some Fox News fanboy who votes in favor of the GOP. Can't say anyone has made that assumption about me before...
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Until you are left with the desired result: a native people that are powerless and insignificant


Mass immigration threatens to do exactly the same to indigeneous white Europeans.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unibrow wrote:
Fox wrote:
Unibrow wrote:
The US deliberately spread smallpox and other disease throughout the Native American population (smallpox blankets)


Oh yes?

Quote:
Thomas Jefferson was quick to grasp the immense importance of vaccination. Receiving a delegation of North American Indian Chieftains in Washington in the winter of 1801-1802, he persuaded them all to be vaccinated and to take back to their tribes supplies of vaccine. He further promoted vaccination among the Indians, directing Meriwether Lewis and William Clark to "carry with you some matter of the kinepox (cowpox), inform those of them with whom you may be of its efficiency as a preservative from the smallpox, and instruct and encourage them in the use of it."


Moreover, if Americans had actually wanted to commit genocide, there would not be a single native American left living today in the continental United States. Perhaps we ought to stop leaning so hard on narrative? You might find the tale of the evil white man to be compelling, but the tale of the imperfect white man would be a better fit.


You're quite uninformed on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#United_States_of_America


1) You present a specific claim: the U.S. Government sought to exterminate natives with small pox.

2) I present a fact: the U.S. Government actively provided small pox vaccine to natives, something that would be bizarre if they actively sought to do what you claimed.

3) You post a Wikipedia link. Not even a segment from Wikipedia, or even a link plus commentary, but just the link.

Needless to say, I feel supremely confident in my position here. Tell me when you've got something else to actually say.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nautilus wrote:
Fox wrote:
if Americans had actually wanted to commit genocide, there would not be a single native American left living today in the continental United States.


The fact is though that europeans gradually displaced and disposessed the native people by a variety of means, from sparking minor wars, battles, importing foreign diseases, destroying the wildlife and thus depriving the natives of their food source, restricting their movements, poisoning their lands, and so on and on.


That's not genocide.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigverne wrote:
Quote:
Until you are left with the desired result: a native people that are powerless and insignificant


Mass immigration threatens to do exactly the same to indigeneous white Europeans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faNge-o0V-k
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unibrow wrote:
Hitler saw what America did to Native Americans and got the idea from the US.


Oh my god will you people stop talking about hitler. Hitler this hitler that. It's like f'n parrots that know two words.

A conversation with a current white person could consist entirely of names.

MLK!

Hoover!

Ghandi!

Churchill!

Stalin!

MLK!

Hitler!

LLLllliiinnnncccooolllnnnnnn!!!

HITLER!
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Unibrow



Joined: 20 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I see now. I have been shown the light. the Benevolent White Man gave the Native Americans everything they have. They should be lucky we gave them free land! Wow, I can't believe I was wrong this whole time! That desert land is great for people to live on! I say we gave them too much! Oh man let me burn my Chomsky collection, the guy is obviously a massive retard and people like Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck are the truth. Thank you Daves for enlightening me on the benefits of American Imperialism. I hope someday the people of Iraq and Afghanistan recognize the enormous sacrifice we made in the name of their Freedom and Human Rights. God Bless America!
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Unibrow



Joined: 20 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look what the British Empire has done for the world. We have brought civlization to the savages. It is truly the White Mans burden to bring the light to these noble primitives. Before we came to Australia, they were hunting with boomerangs and sticks. Now, they have all of the modern conveniences of society. Same with the people of India. My god, I can't believe we gave them so much in return for so little.
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
nautilus wrote:
Fox wrote:
if Americans had actually wanted to commit genocide, there would not be a single native American left living today in the continental United States.


The fact is though that europeans gradually displaced and disposessed the native people by a variety of means, from sparking minor wars, battles, importing foreign diseases, destroying the wildlife and thus depriving the natives of their food source, restricting their movements, poisoning their lands, and so on and on.


That's not genocide.



I think it qualifies..


Quote:
By 'genocide' we mean the destruction of an ethnic group . . . . Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups . . ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_definitions
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unibrow wrote:
Oh I see now. I have been shown the light. the Benevolent White Man gave the Native Americans everything they have. They should be lucky we gave them free land!


No! The White man unjustly took property and destroyed the Native Americans way of life without reasonable compensation. But let's be reasonable about this. They did not set out to liquidate Native Americans. The Native American population was devastated by Measles and Small Pox which Whites for the most part tried to control. Another serious killer of Native Americans was TB. TB also killed Whites the same as Native Americans
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

White people were here 30,000 years before the asians crossed over. Science!
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GF



Joined: 26 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
White people were here 30,000 years before the asians crossed over. Science!


You know how whites took over America, right?
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GF wrote:
Titus wrote:
White people were here 30,000 years before the asians crossed over. Science!


You know how whites took over America, right?


It was cute for the first five minutes. Then it got repetitive and preachy.

Be careful when you mock Dancing with Wolves, lest your art, too, begin appearing like Dancing with Wolves.
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

White Americans massacred and colonized the US. They stole the land from the native inhabitants by a huge variety of means.
Thats why theres 300 million foreigners that now own the US, the natives are disposessed and insignificant.

Why is that so so hard to admit? Its blatantly obvious.


The same happened in eg Australia, New zealand, Canada and elsewhere. All of these countries jumped at the chance to accuse eg white south africa of being genocidal racists yet they refuse to acknowledge their own historic guilt?
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