|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
|
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
If it's a Korean school, then the Koreans should be doing the hiring.
Passing the duty off onto the foreigners smacks of laziness or incompetence on the part of the Korean professors. If they can't read an English resume and tell that a person has good qualifications and experience, they shouldn't be in charge of an English dept. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003 Location: Sonic Space
|
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm With You wrote: |
drydell wrote: |
Being a native English speaker does mean we can better assess personality (like it or not) more so than Koreans can - it's part of the same reason some Korean girls end up dating very socially weird Westerners - they often can't pick up the subtle language nuances that would send out warning signals to same language speakers ... (and the same goes for the other way around too)
Having said that - maybe the reason you seem to have come across unprofessional NET's on hiring committees is for this very reason.. |
Remember, you're talking about Korean professors who have lived in the USA for some years. They've obtained their master's and Ph.D degrees in the U.S.
Surely, they're not idiots you make them out to be. |
When did this assumption get established? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Location: Seoul, South Korea
|
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm With You wrote: |
transmogrifier wrote: |
Hang on, you are the one that made the initial claim that WE aren't as suitable to be on the hiring committee as Korean profs for what apparently amounts to self-hatred - you think we are by our very nature useless and an underclass and not taken seriously. Yet at the same time you make it clear that a hiring committee is something to take very seriously, so would assume a uni that let foreign instructors actually be part of the decision making would be evidence that they DID take our role seriously. But no, to you, this is a Mickey Mouse thing because you are convinced that we are incapable of being on a hiring committee because we are by our very nature useless and an underclass and not to be taken seriously. Around and around in circles, your own self-evident hatred of fellow foreigners in positions of influence driving you a little insane.
Or have you got something logical? My stance is pretty obvious - we are native speakers so the language problems in interviews will never be a problem, we teach the classes and designed the curriculum that people are interviewing for, so we are in the best position to judge the suitability of candidates for the positions.
You stance seems to be, wah wah foreign instructors at universities suck and then you seem to stamp your feet some. There is nothing to your argument that I can discern. |
I sure hope you aren't sitting on a hiring committee.
Unreal. |
Still no substance. I hope I don't work with you. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Location: Seoul, South Korea
|
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Stan Rogers wrote: |
If it's a Korean school, then the Koreans should be doing the hiring.
Passing the duty off onto the foreigners smacks of laziness or incompetence on the part of the Korean professors. If they can't read an English resume and tell that a person has good qualifications and experience, they shouldn't be in charge of an English dept. |
I trust then, should you ever get an interview at my uni, and you walk in and find a panel of five foreigners on the interview committee, that you walk out immediately.
This will save us both time and we both win - you avoid our, apparently, genetic "incompetence" and we avoid hiring a complainer and crank. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Location: the racoon den
|
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'll tell you this Sejong had interviews last week, some people have heard results some havent.
their conditions used to be decent, 12 hours week no housing, 15 with housing, now everybody has to work 15 same pay, also some unpaid english lounge time is required. Apparently the management is now micromanaging the staff to the old timers discontent.
Kodae ran an internal ad (not here) and their deadline was last week.
my school is holding interviews this week, frankly its one of the best jobs in Seoul, low hours, high pay, housing allowance. I'm extremely happy here and don't want to leave |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
|
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
I'll tell you this Sejong had interviews last week, some people have heard results some havent.
their conditions used to be decent, 12 hours week no housing, 15 with housing, now everybody has to work 15 same pay, also some unpaid english lounge time is required. Apparently the management is now micromanaging the staff to the old timers discontent.
Kodae ran an internal ad (not here) and their deadline was last week.
my school is holding interviews this week, frankly its one of the best jobs in Seoul, low hours, high pay, housing allowance. I'm extremely happy here and don't want to leave |
That's not the first time I've heard about teacher complaints at that school. I've been hearing negative stories about that school for the last 6-8 years. Before that it was fine. All the stories I have heard, have the same theme of deteroirating conditions and friction with management. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
|
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
transmogrifier wrote: |
I'm With You wrote: |
transmogrifier wrote: |
Hang on, you are the one that made the initial claim that WE aren't as suitable to be on the hiring committee as Korean profs for what apparently amounts to self-hatred - you think we are by our very nature useless and an underclass and not taken seriously. Yet at the same time you make it clear that a hiring committee is something to take very seriously, so would assume a uni that let foreign instructors actually be part of the decision making would be evidence that they DID take our role seriously. But no, to you, this is a Mickey Mouse thing because you are convinced that we are incapable of being on a hiring committee because we are by our very nature useless and an underclass and not to be taken seriously. Around and around in circles, your own self-evident hatred of fellow foreigners in positions of influence driving you a little insane.
Or have you got something logical? My stance is pretty obvious - we are native speakers so the language problems in interviews will never be a problem, we teach the classes and designed the curriculum that people are interviewing for, so we are in the best position to judge the suitability of candidates for the positions.
You stance seems to be, wah wah foreign instructors at universities suck and then you seem to stamp your feet some. There is nothing to your argument that I can discern. |
I sure hope you aren't sitting on a hiring committee.
Unreal. |
Still no substance. I hope I don't work with you. |
I feel the same way about you. It's suck holes like you that I also try to avoid working with. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
|
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
transmogrifier wrote: |
Stan Rogers wrote: |
If it's a Korean school, then the Koreans should be doing the hiring.
Passing the duty off onto the foreigners smacks of laziness or incompetence on the part of the Korean professors. If they can't read an English resume and tell that a person has good qualifications and experience, they shouldn't be in charge of an English dept. |
I trust then, should you ever get an interview at my uni, and you walk in and find a panel of five foreigners on the interview committee, that you walk out immediately.
This will save us both time and we both win - you avoid our, apparently, genetic "incompetence" and we avoid hiring a complainer and crank. |
You are a hack!
Another foreign charlatan playing, "Professor" in South Korea. How cute. You are so insignificant here that, if you had more self awareness, you'd shit yourself.
The Korean clerical staff carry more weight than you do.
Take a seat, hack. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
|
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm With You wrote: |
transmogrifier wrote: |
I'm With You wrote: |
transmogrifier wrote: |
Hang on, you are the one that made the initial claim that WE aren't as suitable to be on the hiring committee as Korean profs for what apparently amounts to self-hatred - you think we are by our very nature useless and an underclass and not taken seriously. Yet at the same time you make it clear that a hiring committee is something to take very seriously, so would assume a uni that let foreign instructors actually be part of the decision making would be evidence that they DID take our role seriously. But no, to you, this is a Mickey Mouse thing because you are convinced that we are incapable of being on a hiring committee because we are by our very nature useless and an underclass and not to be taken seriously. Around and around in circles, your own self-evident hatred of fellow foreigners in positions of influence driving you a little insane.
Or have you got something logical? My stance is pretty obvious - we are native speakers so the language problems in interviews will never be a problem, we teach the classes and designed the curriculum that people are interviewing for, so we are in the best position to judge the suitability of candidates for the positions.
You stance seems to be, wah wah foreign instructors at universities suck and then you seem to stamp your feet some. There is nothing to your argument that I can discern. |
I sure hope you aren't sitting on a hiring committee.
Unreal. |
Still no substance. I hope I don't work with you. |
I feel the same way about you. It's suck holes like you that I also try to avoid working with. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
|
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm With You wrote: |
transmogrifier wrote: |
Stan Rogers wrote: |
If it's a Korean school, then the Koreans should be doing the hiring.
Passing the duty off onto the foreigners smacks of laziness or incompetence on the part of the Korean professors. If they can't read an English resume and tell that a person has good qualifications and experience, they shouldn't be in charge of an English dept. |
I trust then, should you ever get an interview at my uni, and you walk in and find a panel of five foreigners on the interview committee, that you walk out immediately.
This will save us both time and we both win - you avoid our, apparently, genetic "incompetence" and we avoid hiring a complainer and crank. |
You are a hack!
Another foreign charlatan playing, "Professor" in South Korea. How cute. You are so insignificant here that, if you had more self awareness, you'd shit yourself.
The Korean clerical staff carry more weight than you do.
Take a seat, hack. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Location: Seoul, South Korea
|
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm With You wrote: |
transmogrifier wrote: |
Stan Rogers wrote: |
If it's a Korean school, then the Koreans should be doing the hiring.
Passing the duty off onto the foreigners smacks of laziness or incompetence on the part of the Korean professors. If they can't read an English resume and tell that a person has good qualifications and experience, they shouldn't be in charge of an English dept. |
I trust then, should you ever get an interview at my uni, and you walk in and find a panel of five foreigners on the interview committee, that you walk out immediately.
This will save us both time and we both win - you avoid our, apparently, genetic "incompetence" and we avoid hiring a complainer and crank. |
You are a hack!
Another foreign charlatan playing, "Professor" in South Korea. How cute. You are so insignificant here that, if you had more self awareness, you'd shit yourself.
The Korean clerical staff carry more weight than you do.
Take a seat, hack. |
And it's cute that you think I care about your opinion of me.
How about you just carry on name calling, and I'll just keep on enjoying my job. We are all insignificant in the great scheme of things, but if moaning about people you've never ever met on a messageboard helps to get you through the day, by all means go wild. I would never begrudge someone their pleasures.
I'm With You wrote: |
I feel the same way about you. It's suck holes like you that I also try to avoid working with. |
Well, please keep that going. I think it's better for the both of us, AND I don't have to think about you outside this thread. It's nice to find some common ground. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 Location: South Korea
|
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Stan Rogers wrote: |
If it's a Korean school, then the Koreans should be doing the hiring.
Passing the duty off onto the foreigners smacks of laziness or incompetence on the part of the Korean professors. If they can't read an English resume and tell that a person has good qualifications and experience, they shouldn't be in charge of an English dept. |
True but if Korean staff were than good at English why would they be hiring the foreign staff in the first place?
The English level of the Very top Koreans in the Uni might be great but they do not have time to sit through the interviews as mentioned. They are happy to sign off on the recommendation of their subordinates. It happens that often their KOREAN subordinates need the help of foreign staff because Korean English teachers ALL OVER KOREA have quite a low level of communicative English. There are the odd few who can speak and listen well but generally in an interview they might not be comfortable in such a serious and formal setting without some Native speaker help.
Of course there are many English departments that have few if any Korean English teachers. We do not have any. We have Korean managers and bosses and their English levels are passable but not great. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kimchifart
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
|
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
transmogrifier wrote: |
I'm With You wrote: |
transmogrifier wrote: |
Stan Rogers wrote: |
If it's a Korean school, then the Koreans should be doing the hiring.
Passing the duty off onto the foreigners smacks of laziness or incompetence on the part of the Korean professors. If they can't read an English resume and tell that a person has good qualifications and experience, they shouldn't be in charge of an English dept. |
I trust then, should you ever get an interview at my uni, and you walk in and find a panel of five foreigners on the interview committee, that you walk out immediately.
This will save us both time and we both win - you avoid our, apparently, genetic "incompetence" and we avoid hiring a complainer and crank. |
You are a hack!
Another foreign charlatan playing, "Professor" in South Korea. How cute. You are so insignificant here that, if you had more self awareness, you'd shit yourself.
The Korean clerical staff carry more weight than you do.
Take a seat, hack. |
And it's cute that you think I care about your opinion of me.
How about you just carry on name calling, and I'll just keep on enjoying my job. We are all insignificant in the great scheme of things, but if moaning about people you've never ever met on a messageboard helps to get you through the day, by all means go wild. I would never begrudge someone their pleasures.
I'm With You wrote: |
I feel the same way about you. It's suck holes like you that I also try to avoid working with. |
Well, please keep that going. I think it's better for the both of us, AND I don't have to think about you outside this thread. It's nice to find some common ground. |
He's right though. The only people below you and me in the order of things are the university cleaning adjummas and the security adjosshis. If you don't accept this, then he's right in his assessment of you. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
|
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
liveinkorea316 wrote: |
Stan Rogers wrote: |
If it's a Korean school, then the Koreans should be doing the hiring.
Passing the duty off onto the foreigners smacks of laziness or incompetence on the part of the Korean professors. If they can't read an English resume and tell that a person has good qualifications and experience, they shouldn't be in charge of an English dept. |
True but if Korean staff were than good at English why would they be hiring the foreign staff in the first place?
The English level of the Very top Koreans in the Uni might be great but they do not have time to sit through the interviews as mentioned. They are happy to sign off on the recommendation of their subordinates. It happens that often their KOREAN subordinates need the help of foreign staff because Korean English teachers ALL OVER KOREA have quite a low level of communicative English. There are the odd few who can speak and listen well but generally in an interview they might not be comfortable in such a serious and formal setting without some Native speaker help.
Of course there are many English departments that have few if any Korean English teachers. We do not have any. We have Korean managers and bosses and their English levels are passable but not great. |
I do not object to a foreign teacher being involved in the process. I do not object to a teacher recommending a person. I just do not think having foreigners dominate the process as being a good thing.
At my school a teacher can recommend someone. However the interview is conducted by the Korean professors and rightfully so. It's a Korean school and the decision should be made by the Koreans.
When foreigners are choosing a new teacher it becomes foreigners choosing who they think the Koreans ought to have. Or it becomes foreigners selecting a type of person they want to work with. Or conversely it becomes foreigners excluding people they don't like, quite often for reasons other than qualifications or experience. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Location: Seoul, South Korea
|
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Kimchifart wrote: |
transmogrifier wrote: |
I'm With You wrote: |
transmogrifier wrote: |
Stan Rogers wrote: |
If it's a Korean school, then the Koreans should be doing the hiring.
Passing the duty off onto the foreigners smacks of laziness or incompetence on the part of the Korean professors. If they can't read an English resume and tell that a person has good qualifications and experience, they shouldn't be in charge of an English dept. |
I trust then, should you ever get an interview at my uni, and you walk in and find a panel of five foreigners on the interview committee, that you walk out immediately.
This will save us both time and we both win - you avoid our, apparently, genetic "incompetence" and we avoid hiring a complainer and crank. |
You are a hack!
Another foreign charlatan playing, "Professor" in South Korea. How cute. You are so insignificant here that, if you had more self awareness, you'd shit yourself.
The Korean clerical staff carry more weight than you do.
Take a seat, hack. |
And it's cute that you think I care about your opinion of me.
How about you just carry on name calling, and I'll just keep on enjoying my job. We are all insignificant in the great scheme of things, but if moaning about people you've never ever met on a messageboard helps to get you through the day, by all means go wild. I would never begrudge someone their pleasures.
I'm With You wrote: |
I feel the same way about you. It's suck holes like you that I also try to avoid working with. |
Well, please keep that going. I think it's better for the both of us, AND I don't have to think about you outside this thread. It's nice to find some common ground. |
He's right though. The only people below you and me in the order of things are the university cleaning adjummas and the security adjosshis. If you don't accept this, then he's right in his assessment of you. |
If that's what you believe, than enjoy it. And if I'm not so quick to join the pity party, and you think that means you got me pegged, then, again, good for you. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|