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Rejected jobs circulating
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FaceFaceFace



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject: Rejected jobs circulating Reply with quote

Hi, wasn't sure how to title this, but was wanting to share a slightly awkward situation I'm in.........

I am currently job-hunting and one of the many recruiters I'm talking to have set me up with an interview at a school. Of course I was told the name at the last moment, so I quickly did a search and found out that someone on this forum has put the school's contract up for review and it was basically rejected due to it being dodgy.

My interview is this evening and I'm sure it will go fine, it's just now that I have inside information about the specifics of the contract, I don't want to work at the school.

I'm not sure what to say?? Do I find some way to not have the interview, or go through with it and buy some time to think of something that I can find at fault with it???

I don't want to hurt my chances of getting a good job!!!
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I quickly did a search and found out that someone on this forum has put the school's contract up for review


If someone put the name of the school up there, then chances are it is a well known school. In that case, it is location you should be worried about, not necessarily the contract or name of school.

Some bigger chains are managed by good or bad people, and that makes or breaks a job. Do a search online, not just here, to see if other teachers work there.

If this is not the case, then you really should be focusing in on what specifically was stated about the school to give it a bad review. Those factors are more important than "Hey, someone branded this school bad, what do I do?".

Those factors are perfectly fine reasons to cancel the interview. You are not obligated to go to the interview or have it on the phone/online.

Quote:
buy some time to think of something that I can find at fault with it?


If you have concluded it is dodgy, there has to be reasons why. Those are already the "somethings" you have already found fault with. Either you agree they are enough to cancel or it might be isolated to location as I mentioned.

If it is a smaller school with only one owner working there, then maybe it is just a bad contract but the school and hagwon are nice. If it is a larger chain, then the contract will mask the actual intentions of the "manager" at the school.

We need more info to go on.
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FaceFaceFace



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your detailed response.

By coincidence, the poster here on Dave's accidently put the name and exact branch I will be interviewing for, so it's a bit more than just the name of the school I am considering.

I will still have the interview and see how it goes, but can't imagine they will offer me some magically better contract.
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FaceFaceFace



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YTMND wrote:

Some bigger chains are managed by good or bad people, and that makes or breaks a job. Do a search online, not just here, to see if other teachers work there.


If it is a smaller school with only one owner working there, then maybe it is just a bad contract but the school and hagwon are nice. If it is a larger chain, then the contract will mask the actual intentions of the "manager" at the school.

.


So, can i just ask, is it worth it to accept the job with a dodgy contract if the school is good otherwise??
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xihtug



Joined: 14 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FaceFaceFace wrote:
YTMND wrote:

Some bigger chains are managed by good or bad people, and that makes or breaks a job. Do a search online, not just here, to see if other teachers work there.


If it is a smaller school with only one owner working there, then maybe it is just a bad contract but the school and hagwon are nice. If it is a larger chain, then the contract will mask the actual intentions of the "manager" at the school.

.


So, can i just ask, is it worth it to accept the job with a dodgy contract if the school is good otherwise??


Why would you ever accept a dodgy contract? If the contract is dodgy that really isn't a good sign about the school in general Confused
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FaceFaceFace wrote:
YTMND wrote:

Some bigger chains are managed by good or bad people, and that makes or breaks a job. Do a search online, not just here, to see if other teachers work there.


If it is a smaller school with only one owner working there, then maybe it is just a bad contract but the school and hagwon are nice. If it is a larger chain, then the contract will mask the actual intentions of the "manager" at the school.

.


So, can i just ask, is it worth it to accept the job with a dodgy contract if the school is good otherwise??


If the school was really "good" it wouldn't have a dodgy contract to begin with. A dodgy contract is there to protect the school/shaft the teacher.


If it is a good school it should have no problem writing a proper contract that adheres to the Korean Labor Laws.
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timhorton



Joined: 07 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say do the interview for experience sake.
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JustinC



Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did it go? Any clues from the interviewer's answers? I've seen lots of posts here saying hagwons are drilling down benefits and salary because of the financial issues in the West but not so much to fight back and push up the minimum standards for us. Some give and take would be much appreciated.
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FaceFaceFace



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xihtug wrote:
FaceFaceFace wrote:
YTMND wrote:

Some bigger chains are managed by good or bad people, and that makes or breaks a job. Do a search online, not just here, to see if other teachers work there.


If it is a smaller school with only one owner working there, then maybe it is just a bad contract but the school and hagwon are nice. If it is a larger chain, then the contract will mask the actual intentions of the "manager" at the school.

.


So, can i just ask, is it worth it to accept the job with a dodgy contract if the school is good otherwise??


Why would you ever accept a dodgy contract? If the contract is dodgy that really isn't a good sign about the school in general Confused


Exactly. My question was directed at YTMND regarding this comment as I found it confusing. My thinking is bad contract is the beginning of bad work practices.
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FaceFaceFace



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustinC wrote:
How did it go? Any clues from the interviewer's answers? I've seen lots of posts here saying hagwons are drilling down benefits and salary because of the financial issues in the West but not so much to fight back and push up the minimum standards for us. Some give and take would be much appreciated.


Ok, so I did the interview but I didn't put as much effort in as I normally would. The interviewer seemed quite busy and wanted to only have a quick chat, so I let him get on with it.
When I was asking some questions (wanted to do my own homework on the school) I noticed he wouldn't give me a direct answer and even when pressed, he was avoiding giving me some information.
At the end he said if I was interested to let the recruiter know and we left it at that. Phew!!!

That being said, I find it concerning that schools are trying to wriggle out of giving teachers their basic legal rights (pension, health care etc). I have been asked if the school can just 'give a higher wage but no pension' not just once but several times.
I have emailed along with my resume etc that I am unable to consider contracts that don't include full benefits. I'm sure that is making me less popular but I won't stand for less.
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FaceFaceFace wrote:
xihtug wrote:
FaceFaceFace wrote:
YTMND wrote:

Some bigger chains are managed by good or bad people, and that makes or breaks a job. Do a search online, not just here, to see if other teachers work there.


If it is a smaller school with only one owner working there, then maybe it is just a bad contract but the school and hagwon are nice. If it is a larger chain, then the contract will mask the actual intentions of the "manager" at the school.

.


So, can i just ask, is it worth it to accept the job with a dodgy contract if the school is good otherwise??


Why would you ever accept a dodgy contract? If the contract is dodgy that really isn't a good sign about the school in general Confused


Exactly. My question was directed at YTMND regarding this comment as I found it confusing. My thinking is bad contract is the beginning of bad work practices.


Sorry for the late replies. Looking above at all the posts, no not all good schools have a good contract. There are plenty of honest and nice school owners who actually don't know how to draft up contracts. This is probably why they are so good. They are not worried about legal issues.

A school which is gouging its teachers for money and extra hours will have a "good" contract on the appearance, but it will be backed up with legal agreements that protect them and not the teacher. So, now you have to decide, will the school with the good contract treat you fairly 3 months after working, or will things go sour and will they use the contract to oust you if you don't obey?

A good school with a contract that has missing parts is only going to be enforced by labor law, not the contract since those missing parts can't be enforced. If they are not important to you, then why chance it with a "good" school just because it is listed?

I am referring to things like vacation time, sick days, and possibly overtime. If they really matter to you, of course address them. However, if you are not worried about something like a return flight if you want to stay in Korea, then use that as a negotiating tool to get a higher salary instead.

When you get your second school, you can get an even higher salary that way by showing what you earned at your previous school.
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mnjetter



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Location: Seoul, S. Korea

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good school, though, will change the contract if it is pointed out that there are discrepancies, and will be willing to talk about the contract without avoiding the issue. Legal issues may not be important to them, but they will not work to avoid it.

Case in point: When I signed on at my school, I noticed that the wording of the bereavement leave was a little strange, and explicitly defined immediate family as "parents and siblings." If I were married or had children, I would have been very upset that they were not included. I signed the contract, though, since I have neither spouse nor children, but I did mention the odd definition to my boss. I didn't even ask for anything to be done about it, since for me personally, it didn't matter, but my boss wasted no time in creating an addendum with the necessary wording.
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FaceFaceFace



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your detailed response, YTMND. That throws a bit more light upon what you were saying earlier.
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FaceFaceFace



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I just add one more thing here?

I don't know about anyone else, but of the many interviews I've had, not one person interviewing me has been a fellow waygook. It's all been the director, or head teacher, or random Korean teacher with good English skills.

Is this the case for everyone else??
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FaceFaceFace wrote:
Can I just add one more thing here?

I don't know about anyone else, but of the many interviews I've had, not one person interviewing me has been a fellow waygook. It's all been the director, or head teacher, or random Korean teacher with good English skills.

Is this the case for everyone else??


Typically.

.
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