Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Have we FINALLY returned to a liberal governing coalition?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
comm wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Mississippi receives $2.00 from the Federal gov't for every $1.00 the State pays in Federal taxes. http://stonesoup.wordpress.com/2011/06/07/federal-funding-received-by-state-per-dollar-sent/

I think you mean that Mississippi takes $2 from other States for every $1 it contributes to them. And this is a good thing? Shouldn't the people of Mississippi be responsible for their own finances?


Its not a good thing, because it means the people of Mississippi are largely poor and in need of assistance.


I was in Biloxi, Mississippi this past week. Holy cow is it poor. All the products in the stores made in China and huge amounts of the city idle. Why am I the only person who makes this connection?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Kuros wrote:
comm wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Mississippi receives $2.00 from the Federal gov't for every $1.00 the State pays in Federal taxes. http://stonesoup.wordpress.com/2011/06/07/federal-funding-received-by-state-per-dollar-sent/

I think you mean that Mississippi takes $2 from other States for every $1 it contributes to them. And this is a good thing? Shouldn't the people of Mississippi be responsible for their own finances?


Its not a good thing, because it means the people of Mississippi are largely poor and in need of assistance.


I was in Biloxi, Mississippi this past week. Holy cow is it poor. All the products in the stores made in China and huge amounts of the city idle. Why am I the only person who makes this connection?


China is not the problem for Mississippi. Ever heard of the smile curve? The "value added" in a chain of goods dips to its lowest at manufacturing. It peaks at the ends, at research and development and at branding. That said, a lot of mid-end manufacturing is nevertheless drifting back from China because the Chinese are so poor at quality control. Also, dealing with Chinese business practices are a nightmare. See one of any two posts on this site: http://www.chinalawblog.com/

Protectionism won't solve Mississippi's problems. Hawley-Smoot destroyed the U.S. economy in the lead up to the Great Depression era. Even if the United States were to follow Krugman's disasterous advice and declare a trade war on China, Mississippi still exists in a massive 50-state free trade zone. The U.S. Constitution's Commerce Clause has been interpreted to prevent States from adopting protectionist policies against other States.

A little bit of tax and spend won't hurt. Corporate profits are up and wages are low. Moderate redistribution of wealth seems like a suitable stopgap until we dismantle the FIRE economy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Kuros wrote:
comm wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Mississippi receives $2.00 from the Federal gov't for every $1.00 the State pays in Federal taxes. http://stonesoup.wordpress.com/2011/06/07/federal-funding-received-by-state-per-dollar-sent/

I think you mean that Mississippi takes $2 from other States for every $1 it contributes to them. And this is a good thing? Shouldn't the people of Mississippi be responsible for their own finances?


Its not a good thing, because it means the people of Mississippi are largely poor and in need of assistance.


I was in Biloxi, Mississippi this past week. Holy cow is it poor. All the products in the stores made in China and huge amounts of the city idle. Why am I the only person who makes this connection?


I was there a few months after Katrina and the place looked terrible. I wonder how much an effect that had on its current state. Anyways it was easy to tell that it was poor before the hurricane, but afterwards it was worse than most third world countries.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Titus wrote:
Kuros wrote:
comm wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Mississippi receives $2.00 from the Federal gov't for every $1.00 the State pays in Federal taxes. http://stonesoup.wordpress.com/2011/06/07/federal-funding-received-by-state-per-dollar-sent/

I think you mean that Mississippi takes $2 from other States for every $1 it contributes to them. And this is a good thing? Shouldn't the people of Mississippi be responsible for their own finances?


Its not a good thing, because it means the people of Mississippi are largely poor and in need of assistance.


I was in Biloxi, Mississippi this past week. Holy cow is it poor. All the products in the stores made in China and huge amounts of the city idle. Why am I the only person who makes this connection?


China is not the problem for Mississippi. Ever heard of the smile curve? The "value added" in a chain of goods dips to its lowest at manufacturing. It peaks at the ends, at research and development and at branding. That said, a lot of mid-end manufacturing is nevertheless drifting back from China because the Chinese are so poor at quality control. Also, dealing with Chinese business practices are a nightmare. See one of any two posts on this site: http://www.chinalawblog.com/

Protectionism won't solve Mississippi's problems. Hawley-Smoot destroyed the U.S. economy in the lead up to the Great Depression era. Even if the United States were to follow Krugman's disasterous advice and declare a trade war on China, Mississippi still exists in a massive 50-state free trade zone. The U.S. Constitution's Commerce Clause has been interpreted to prevent States from adopting protectionist policies against other States.

A little bit of tax and spend won't hurt. Corporate profits are up and wages are low. Moderate redistribution of wealth seems like a suitable stopgap until we dismantle the FIRE economy.


Oh Kuros.

Because Mississippi exists in a union with 49 other states who have relatively similar regulatory burdens, wage/tax/cost structures does not mean that it can exist equally well in a union with all other states, what with the incredible variance in cost/regulatory/wage structures.

Taxation won't diminish inequality. Rising wages will.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Titus wrote:
Kuros wrote:
comm wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Mississippi receives $2.00 from the Federal gov't for every $1.00 the State pays in Federal taxes. http://stonesoup.wordpress.com/2011/06/07/federal-funding-received-by-state-per-dollar-sent/

I think you mean that Mississippi takes $2 from other States for every $1 it contributes to them. And this is a good thing? Shouldn't the people of Mississippi be responsible for their own finances?


Its not a good thing, because it means the people of Mississippi are largely poor and in need of assistance.


I was in Biloxi, Mississippi this past week. Holy cow is it poor. All the products in the stores made in China and huge amounts of the city idle. Why am I the only person who makes this connection?


China is not the problem for Mississippi. Ever heard of the smile curve? The "value added" in a chain of goods dips to its lowest at manufacturing. It peaks at the ends, at research and development and at branding. That said, a lot of mid-end manufacturing is nevertheless drifting back from China because the Chinese are so poor at quality control. Also, dealing with Chinese business practices are a nightmare. See one of any two posts on this site: http://www.chinalawblog.com/

Protectionism won't solve Mississippi's problems. Hawley-Smoot destroyed the U.S. economy in the lead up to the Great Depression era. Even if the United States were to follow Krugman's disasterous advice and declare a trade war on China, Mississippi still exists in a massive 50-state free trade zone. The U.S. Constitution's Commerce Clause has been interpreted to prevent States from adopting protectionist policies against other States.

A little bit of tax and spend won't hurt. Corporate profits are up and wages are low. Moderate redistribution of wealth seems like a suitable stopgap until we dismantle the FIRE economy.


Oh Kuros.

Because Mississippi exists in a union with 49 other states who have relatively similar regulatory burdens, wage/tax/cost structures does not mean that it can exist equally well in a union with all other states, what with the incredible variance in cost/regulatory/wage structures.

Taxation won't diminish inequality. Rising wages will.


Protectionism is as hopeless as the gold standard. I'm not going to devote time arguing the point. I agree that rising wages will diminish inequality, after all, I called tax and spend a stopgap. It will take a full attack on the FIRE economy before wages will rise.

I know you're a right-winger, so you just cannot abide taxing the rich more. But its a better solution than protectionism, which is a proven failure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Protectionism is as hopeless as the gold standard. I'm not going to devote time arguing the point.


Protectionism is how the USA became wealthy. I see you've tried to link it with the gold standard in a fit of snark, but remember, I forgot more economic theory and history yesterday then you've learned in the last ten years.

Quote:
I know you're a right-winger, so you just cannot abide taxing the rich more. But its a better solution than protectionism, which is a proven failure.


So the guy who lived in Korea and is now in Kentucky looks around the world and says "protectionism is a proven failure". Bravo. Read The Atlantic more.

Let's walk you though it, nice and slow.

We have a corporation that produces widgets (b/c economists just love their stupid widget examples).

It can choose to produce in two jurisdictions.

1) a high tax area with strong environmental regulations. The society has decided not to allow widget manufacturers to just destroy the land and air and imposes things like vacation, workers comp, and the rest.

2) a low tax area with none of the above.

The firm, unhinged from any protectionism, will produce where?

Further, are the standards of 2 sustainable if it is in direct competition with 1?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Quote:
Protectionism is as hopeless as the gold standard. I'm not going to devote time arguing the point.


Protectionism is how the USA became wealthy. I see you've tried to link it with the gold standard in a fit of snark, but remember, I forgot more economic theory and history yesterday then you've learned in the last ten years.


Unless I'm wrong, and you're Mises and not Koveras, I seriously doubt that comparison.

Quote:
So the guy who lived in Korea and is now in Kentucky


I stopped reading there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I stopped reading there.


Why would you stop? Did you walk around Korea thinking that Free Trade was what built that nation? Taiwan? Japan? China today? Good lord guy. How the hell is Mississippi going to directly compete with China. Even her natural advantage in agriculture is undermined though free trade.

Free trade is the ideology of the nomad. We really should know better.

Koveras has more grace and intelligence in a toenail than I sum-total. I'm honoured that the two could be confused, but fear it instead speaks to the liberal mind clumping in all traditionalist dissent as one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Titus in general about the potential benefits of greater protectionism for America collectively, but I disagree that Mississippi would suddenly turn around in such an environment; Mississippi is always going to be poor in relation to the other states, largely because of the people who live in Mississippi; accomplishments like Korea are about more than just policy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
I'm honoured that the two could be confused, but fear it instead speaks to the liberal mind clumping in all traditionalist dissent as one.


I've read plenty of posts where you clump in leftists together for your purposes. We all do it to some extent. And there's a constant flow of strident Democratic types who love to lump in all libertarianism with the Chicago school.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
I agree with Titus in general about the potential benefits of greater protectionism for America collectively, but I disagree that Mississippi would suddenly turn around in such an environment; Mississippi is always going to be poor in relation to the other states, largely because of the people who live in Mississippi; accomplishments like Korea are about more than just policy.


Protectionism won't work. The greatest threat to American jobs remains increased mechanization and technological innovation, not China. Good luck rescuing low- to mid-tech manufacturing jobs from the 3D Printer over the next decade.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Fox wrote:
I agree with Titus in general about the potential benefits of greater protectionism for America collectively, but I disagree that Mississippi would suddenly turn around in such an environment; Mississippi is always going to be poor in relation to the other states, largely because of the people who live in Mississippi; accomplishments like Korea are about more than just policy.


Protectionism won't work. The greatest threat to American jobs remains increased mechanization and technological innovation, not China. Good luck rescuing low- to mid-tech manufacturing jobs from the 3D Printer over the next decade.


I don't disagree that technological advancement also erodes the value of labor. I see two ailments regarding the devaluation of labor; one can be cured (excessive and needless importation of goods) and one that cannot and probably should not be (innovation). Rectifying the former with protectionist policies and pseudo-nationalizing the value (not the administration) of the means of production through wealth redistribution to amend the latter seems fine to me (and the aforementioned protectionism will also prevent hostile capital holders from "taking their ball and going home" so to speak if they get too pouty about compensation reduction - two birds with one stone).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
I'd say those silly seccession petitions are perfect example that there is a liberal governing coalition in place; otherwise far-right conservatives wouldn't want to leave the union.

Personally, I see this as the not-surprising outcome of the Republican's rhetoric of how Obama will ruin the country. Gov. Perry now is distancing himself from these not-so-mainstream people and it shows that Gov. Perry is smarter than he looked during the Republican primaries.

Republicans need to sober-up and look at the mob they are leading and ask themselves if this is what they want the U.S. to look like? I don't think they do.

It is time for responsible government not anti-government. To me, that is what the electorate asked for. For example, a government that could respond to huricanes. That is what the electorate wanted - responsible government - not "wacky."


On the one hand, I agree with you. Eight years ago there were a lot of liberals who whined and moaned about moving to Canada when thier guy did not win. It is much the same this time...

BUT there is a qualitative difference.

In 1814 the Federalists met in Hartford to discuss secession in the late stage of the War of 1812. It was not a good choice. It pretty much lent itself to the suicide of the Party. They did not recover from the taint of treason in a national crisis.

Now we have (as far as I can see) somewhat of a similar situation. It's one thing for someone to stomp off in a huff and say he's going Galt. It's entirely another thing for a couple hundred thousand people to say they want to secede like in 1860/1861. Words have connotations, and 'secede' has connotations.

For a very looooong time I had to put up with the idea that 'liberal' was a dirty swear word with the most egregious meaning. It looks to me like the word 'conservative' means 'secession', 'treason', 'idiocy', 'selfishness'... I am not alone in this.

Thank you, Rick Perry. Thank you, Todd Palin. Thank you, boob from Texas.

Things are looking ever better for Hillary in '16. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International