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Democratics and white voters
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigverne wrote:
Quote:
In the long run the demographics suggest it doesn't matter.


True, and I don't expect AA to be reversed, as it will not be in the interests of blacks and hispanics to do so. What does matter is that the US will become increasingly ethnically polarized, with each group voting along racial lines. That does not bode well for the unity of the country, and will make the country's committment to 'diversity' look ever more foolish.


To some extent hasn't there ALWAYS been a certain amount of voting for your own kind?

White fundamentalists who believe Mormonism is a cult and church groups who have said its always best to vote for a Christian, voted for the White guy who they believed was part of a cult group instead of Obama who is a self confessed born-again Christian?

How do you think the Irish controlled mayoral races for decades in NY, Philadelphia, Boston and Chicago?

The Irish were outcasts in the 1800s. White Americans were certainly not going vote for an Irishman but they became mayors of America's largest cities purely through their own voting for themselves.

Do you know what the percentage of Irish Americans who voted for JFK in '60?

Its okay UNTIL its some other race or ethnicity.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus, the facts are a lot of companies and institutions practiced racism in hiring. The programs set up to correct them may be faulty in some cases and if they are, there is a legal remedy because they will be challenged (such as the IRS reverse discrimination case that was mentioned on this forum) and rightfully so. Also, there are different types of Affirmative Actions. Some are simply just to expand the applicant pool but with no change in hiring criteria. Certain communities are not aware of certain jobs and programs. Sometimes that was by design. Some have a point system, etc. Affirmative Action comes in all types of forms. Its not all bad.

I don't know if they are but I'd like to know if the the police and fire departments, even in predominantly Black and minority cities, are still majority White. I'd be surprised if they aren't majority white. Majority by a long way possibly. These cities have been majority minority for a few decades now. The article mentioned it. I know every time I've seen scenes of 911, they were mostly White. I would expect Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, etcl. to be the same.

The fortune 500 is still vastly overwhelmingly with white CEOs and senior management.

Our history books were one-sided and either minimized or left out the contribution of ALL Americans. Who were doing the vast majority of enslaving Africans and killing Indians? As far as I know history books don't specifically say Whites killed Indians or enslaved Blacks anyway. No one would allow that. Private schools maybe.

Frankly, I see a lot of this ultra right wing White stuff as a bunch of guys unable to adjust to a changing world. Longing for days when society arbitrarily gave one race and gender everything.

Maybe even scared of a little honest competition. I guarantee you if universities admissions were based 100% on scholastic achievement. Leaving out all other factors including voluneerism, etc. They'd still be complaints.

In fact, did you know that some universities are now biased against Asians and Women because the incoming classes are looking too lopsided?

http://www.prb.org/Articles/2011/gender-gap-in-education.aspx

since 1991 the share of women ages 25 to 29 with a bachelor's degree or higher has exceeded the share of young men with the same credentials (see figure). And the gap has widened in recent years due to stagnation in the rate of young men earning degrees. Moreover, this phenomenon is present among all major race and ethnic groups. Women not only represent a majority of young adults enrolled as college undergraduates, but they also are now nearly three-fifths of graduate students.

And its not Affirmative Action, women are simply more studious than men now in High School.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-04-24-university-california-asian_N.htm

A new admissions policy set to take effect at the University of California system in three years is raising fears among Asian-Americans that it will reduce their numbers on campus, where they account for a remarkable 40% of all undergraduates....They point to a UC projection that said the new standards would sharply reduce Asian-American admissions while resulting in little change for blacks and Hispanics, and a big gain for white students."I like to call it affirmative action for whites," said Ling-chi Wang, a retired professor at UC Berkeley. "I think it's extremely unfair to Asian-Americans on the one hand and underrepresented minorities on the other."




Fact is other groups are now outperforming White Males on an equal basis.
Corporate America is about money. Pure and simple. They could give a rat's azz. If you're good, you're going to get the job. Furthermore, the populace is diverse.
You make money addressing this diversity. You NEED a diverse workforce to address this. If you're a typical straight white guy, do you know how to market to a Black, Latino, Female or Gay demographic?

A few decades ago, Ford made a huge mistake marketing a car in South America whose name that translated to a negative meaning. They didn't have anyone who spoke spanish in the marketing of it.
I can't recall the airline but I recall in a business class there was an american airline that started a new route to Asia and the stewardesses wore flowers whose colors meant death. Didnt' go over well.

Baseball diversified and now have audiences in Japan, the spanish speaking Caribbean, Korea, South America tuning in.

Basketball has introduced Asian and European players and once a uniquely American sport with no appeal globally now has global appeal.

American corporations are well advised to go multi-cultural. You don't know where the next big idea will come from.

Sometimes you miss out on a gem. Colin Powell is a product of Affirmative Action...by Republicans no less! Oh, the sweet irony. Obama got into Harvard by affirmative action and it worked out well..for some, at least. He became Harvard Law Review and that high honor is strictly merit based.

The whole separate white state is based on the argument that America no longer the land of equals. Others are 'more' equal than other. However I guatantee you if we went strictly equal, it wouldn't turn out as some think it would. Make the schools in the inner city the same quality as the suburbs and I think you'll find a lot better student coming out.
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
catman wrote:
We white males are doing just fine.

What's this "we" stuff? You speak only for yourself.


So who is keeping you down as a white male?
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

catman wrote:
visitorq wrote:
catman wrote:
We white males are doing just fine.

What's this "we" stuff? You speak only for yourself.


So who is keeping you down as a white male?

And who says I'm a white male? You love making assumptions, it seems.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more thing. Titus and bigverne are under the impression we were one big happy family when we were almost exclusively a Wasp country in its early days.
We ALWAYS fought amongst each other. It was a huge effort just to get the 13 colonies to agree on anything. Elections were polarized almost from the start. After Washington, elections got polarized and we developed parties because of that.
Founding fathers stopped speaking to each other (Jefferson & Adams), some even killed each other (Burr & Hamilton).
All this talk about minority this and that is a smokescreen. I absolutey gurantee you a white state as Titus and bigverne advocates would have just as much problems as now. Blaming problems on ethnic and racial groups is a scapegoat. An old one.
We used to use other 'whites' as scapegoats for our problems before we freed Blacks and had so many Latinos and Asians.
Eastern and southern Europeans weren't even regarded as fully 'white'. Heck, even the Irish were considered a separate race. They were often depicted as apes in newspaper cartoons Italians, Slavs, Spanish, Poles, Jews, Russians and any other southern or eastern europeans were considered 'below' western and northern europeans. Not Black but not White either. Some sort of ethnic/racial purgatory.

The reasons we see some groups form gangs these days (Blacks, Latinos, Asians, Russians) are the same reasons we saw previous groups form them.
The Irish gangs were well known. The mafia as well. Jews were so prejudiced against some went into crime. Meyer Lansky, Bugsy Siegel, Dutch Schultz, Arnold Rothstein, as well as many others went into crime who were not household names, with very little prior history of doing that in Europe where they were the merchant class. They felt it was the only way to make a living.
These groups wanted to be American. Raised their children to adapt and learn English but were faced with massive prejudice. Some fought throught it and around, many didn't.
Had we been a country of inclusion, a lot of the present issues could have been avoided.
In many ways we are but there is still obviously a mindset out there of exclusion as evidenced by some posts on here.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want a white nationalist state. I'd rather you liberal people have the joy of living in Detroit. The messianic religious, Zionist (except for themselves), corporation loving Conservatives can have Kansas City, mega churches and Wal Mart. They can fret about their Freedom to work for 7$ an hour and have a gold standard.

You liberal people can live with Laura Rosen and Soros, Darnell and Miguel from Tuxtla Gutiérrez. Gloria Steinem, Naomi Klein, Betty Friedan, Tiger Moms and welfare queens. You can have the Somalian taxi drivers. You can have Tim Wise, Potok, Foxman and the anti-white racists. You can live in paradise. You can fight wars for Freedom and Democracy (Israel) for ever and ever.

We'd rather throw the entire project in the can and go our own way.

Deal? There's probably a million of us. We'll take 1/300 of the land. Yeah?
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
I don't want a white nationalist state. I'd rather you liberal people have the joy of living in Detroit. The messianic religious, Zionist (except for themselves), corporation loving Conservatives can have Kansas City, mega churches and Wal Mart. They can fret about their Freedom to work for 7$ an hour and have a gold standard.

You liberal people can live with Laura Rosen and Soros, Darnell and Miguel from Tuxtla Gutiérrez. Gloria Steinem, Naomi Klein, Betty Friedan, Tiger Moms and welfare queens. You can have the Somalian taxi drivers. You can have Tim Wise, Potok, Foxman and the anti-white racists. You can live in paradise. You can fight wars for Freedom and Democracy (Israel) for ever and ever.

We'd rather throw the entire project in the can and go our own way.

Deal? There's probably a million of us. We'll take 1/300 of the land. Yeah?


No deal. Secession will be ruthlessly crushed. Do what our forebears did and colonize somewhere else. And before you say, "there's nowhere else left," consider the Moon and the ocean, both settlements beneath and above the waves.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then Brazil it is, until Bernanke creates a Weimar, and we won't be so nice.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Titus wrote:
I don't want a white nationalist state. I'd rather you liberal people have the joy of living in Detroit. The messianic religious, Zionist (except for themselves), corporation loving Conservatives can have Kansas City, mega churches and Wal Mart. They can fret about their Freedom to work for 7$ an hour and have a gold standard.

You liberal people can live with Laura Rosen and Soros, Darnell and Miguel from Tuxtla Gutiérrez. Gloria Steinem, Naomi Klein, Betty Friedan, Tiger Moms and welfare queens. You can have the Somalian taxi drivers. You can have Tim Wise, Potok, Foxman and the anti-white racists. You can live in paradise. You can fight wars for Freedom and Democracy (Israel) for ever and ever.

We'd rather throw the entire project in the can and go our own way.

Deal? There's probably a million of us. We'll take 1/300 of the land. Yeah?


No deal. Secession will be ruthlessly crushed. Do what our forebears did and colonize somewhere else. And before you say, "there's nowhere else left," consider the Moon and the ocean, both settlements beneath and above the waves.


Bahamas and other Caribbean islands actually have islands for sale where you are your own jurisdiction if you want. I'd be willing to let bigverne and his buddies have a patch of the northern part of Alaska. Area has to be uninhabited by the natives though, I fear what may happen to them.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirius black wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Titus wrote:
I don't want a white nationalist state. I'd rather you liberal people have the joy of living in Detroit. The messianic religious, Zionist (except for themselves), corporation loving Conservatives can have Kansas City, mega churches and Wal Mart. They can fret about their Freedom to work for 7$ an hour and have a gold standard.

You liberal people can live with Laura Rosen and Soros, Darnell and Miguel from Tuxtla Gutiérrez. Gloria Steinem, Naomi Klein, Betty Friedan, Tiger Moms and welfare queens. You can have the Somalian taxi drivers. You can have Tim Wise, Potok, Foxman and the anti-white racists. You can live in paradise. You can fight wars for Freedom and Democracy (Israel) for ever and ever.

We'd rather throw the entire project in the can and go our own way.

Deal? There's probably a million of us. We'll take 1/300 of the land. Yeah?


No deal. Secession will be ruthlessly crushed. Do what our forebears did and colonize somewhere else. And before you say, "there's nowhere else left," consider the Moon and the ocean, both settlements beneath and above the waves.


Bahamas and other Caribbean islands actually have islands for sale where you are your own jurisdiction if you want. I'd be willing to let bigverne and his buddies have a patch of the northern part of Alaska. Area has to be uninhabited by the natives though, I fear what may happen to them.


That's right. Be creative. No hand-outs.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
That's right. Be creative. No hand-outs.

Would a bloody revolution to overthrow the regime count as "creative"? Wink

I mean if it only comes down to brute force, then...
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
Kuros wrote:
That's right. Be creative. No hand-outs.

Would a bloody revolution to overthrow the regime count as "creative"? Wink

I mean if it only comes down to brute force, then...


A coup or insurrection aimed at the center differs from secession, it seems to me. It wouldn't challenge the Union itself, merely the leadership and perhaps also the system of governance.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
visitorq wrote:
Kuros wrote:
That's right. Be creative. No hand-outs.

Would a bloody revolution to overthrow the regime count as "creative"? Wink

I mean if it only comes down to brute force, then...


A coup or insurrection aimed at the center differs from secession, it seems to me. It wouldn't challenge the Union itself, merely the leadership and perhaps also the system of governance.

Perhaps that's where the "creative" part comes into play... Rather than it just being out with the old boss, in with the new, we actually manage to topple the leviathan state and decentralize the power structure? I know, it's a pretty naive thought (not the way of things), but I don't see how saving the union would be anything worth revolting over...
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ghostrider



Joined: 27 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"(CNN) -- Nothing says 'sore loser' like threatening to leave the country after an election defeat. And that's what hundreds of thousands of Americans have done by petitioning for their states' secession on the White House website."

"Given that there was no similar large-scale effort to secede when Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton or George W. Bush won re-election, liberals can't be blamed for detecting a particular white fury at Obama's success."
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/19/opinion/stanley-secession/index.html

People wanting to secede from the union because they fear racial equality? Wow, history is repeating itself.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+10 points to Gryffindor.

While there are legitimate reasons not to like Obama's administration (and I have several points of contention myself), White voters who have no racial animus towards the man and even are kinda proud to see that America has evolved enough to vote in a minority candidate, those people unfortunately get lumped in with the masses of Whites whose main basis for hating Obama is his race.
They are in such large numbers that its difficult to see legitmate opposition to his administration without prejudice.

The election brought out the best and worst of America.
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