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Democratics and white voters
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of visitorg falling out of his chair and hurting himself, I'll add my two cents.

I've heard it said that the reason for the high number of not only Black but female and minority employment in public jobs, be they, city, state or federal stems back to the '70s.

With the advent of the women's right movement, post civil rights and affirmative action, minorities and women were simply not being hired in the numbers expected or wanted in the private sector and many. Companies were slow to move despite legislation. So Blacks gravitated to the public sector jobs. Even college educated Blacks and Women who would have otherwise wanted private sector jobs.

The government was trying to lead the way in the laws it implemented and started hiring many minorities. In those days, public sector jobs weren't seen as a job for someone who was upperwardly mobile and wanted a middle class life and generally Whites stayed away from those jobs.

Middle class was seen as firmly in private sector jobs. Over the years, private sector jobs were moving jobs overseas, laying off many and became unreliable. Those employed in the public sector were enjoying job stability, generous pensions and benefits and then many people who would have stayed away from those jobs now wanted them. Public sector jobs became competitive. There was a flight to safe jobs, jobs where it was difficult to be laid off or fired. Many jobs that required nothing more than either a HS diploma or Junior college degree and passing a civl service test now require college degrees and experience.

I don't know if that is true but it makes some sense to me at least. So, that may explain the disparity in public sector jobs for minorities.

I do agree with Leon's post. I have seen that article as well. Strangely enough in a British newspaper. Anyway, I will say that I don't see it as an excuse for minorites. A minority candidate has to get a proper resume that is better. If it takes getting a Master's, additional training and certification. It shouldn't be that way but many years ago, the 'out of favor' group at the time, Irish, Italians, Jews, had to do the same.

Many in NYC went to Fordham, CUNY and other lower tier universities just to get a college education to compete. Lots of the city's lawyers went to Fordham Law and other lower tier law schools.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, public sector jobs, at least at the fed level, are ridiculously hard to get now. I was fortunate to get in right before things became that way. It's primarily due to a combo of a couple factors:

1. There has been a hiring freeze for the last two years. It is a pain in the ass for most government agencies to be granted hiring exceptions (even when you just want to backfill).

2. The flood of vets out there now. If you're not a vet, odds of you getting a job, especially one that just requires a BA, are really really slim.

Oh, and of course more people are seeking fed jobs because they generally have job security that no longer is found in the private sector. There is also the myth that we have great benefits, but I honestly had better benefits at my last job in the private sector (health insurance premium 100% paid by my employer, same amount of vacation time as I have now, similar 401(k) matching benefit, etc).

Anyway, sorry for the complete diversion from the original subject. Do agree that public sector unions should be banned though, and private ones need to increase their presence. A shame that so many Americans are anti-union.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirius black wrote:
At the risk of visitorg falling out of his chair and hurting himself, I'll add my two cents.

I've heard it said that the reason for the high number of not only Black but female and minority employment in public jobs, be they, city, state or federal stems back to the '70s.

With the advent of the women's right movement, post civil rights and affirmative action, minorities and women were simply not being hired in the numbers expected or wanted in the private sector and many. Companies were slow to move despite legislation. So Blacks gravitated to the public sector jobs. Even college educated Blacks and Women who would have otherwise wanted private sector jobs.

Serious question: if blacks are so discriminated against, then why don't they just hire amongst themselves? Why not start their own businesses?

The only reason I can think of is that in the past they were absolutely brutalized by the government. This left them with little in the way of property or resources with which to build up their communities. But now blacks are supposed to feel grateful to the same state for giving them food stamps and welfare?

My sincerest hope for the black community is that they will realize they are being duped, and stop allowing government to keep them dependent. No easy task to work extra hard to make up the lost ground and build thriving communities, but it is possible if there's a will. There are already plenty of affluent, successful black people these days (and frankly the racial barriers of the past have vanished to a very large degree), which is commendable, but the welfare state is still the bane of many (and of a lot of white people as well for that matter).
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
sirius black wrote:
At the risk of visitorg falling out of his chair and hurting himself, I'll add my two cents.

I've heard it said that the reason for the high number of not only Black but female and minority employment in public jobs, be they, city, state or federal stems back to the '70s.

With the advent of the women's right movement, post civil rights and affirmative action, minorities and women were simply not being hired in the numbers expected or wanted in the private sector and many. Companies were slow to move despite legislation. So Blacks gravitated to the public sector jobs. Even college educated Blacks and Women who would have otherwise wanted private sector jobs.

Serious question: if blacks are so discriminated against, then why don't they just hire amongst themselves? Why not start their own businesses?


They did. There were many in DC and Atlanta. BET was created in the 80s and HQ'd here in DC. There are also a number of construction companies here that are black owned (and I'm guessing have predominately black management).

Quote:
The only reason I can think of is that in the past they were absolutely brutalized by the government. This left them with little in the way of property or resources with which to build up their communities. But now blacks are supposed to feel grateful to the same state for giving them food stamps and welfare?


yes, that was certainly a factor. Also banks were quite reluctant to provide business loans and credit. And due to a lot of outreach programs since the 60s, I think a lot of African Americans views towards the government have changed. Even their perception of the police has improved in the past decade or so (including LA, which used to have awful relations between the black community and the police).

Quote:
My sincerest hope for the black community is that they will realize they are being duped, and stop allowing government to keep them dependent. No easy task to work extra hard to make up the lost ground and build thriving communities, but it is possible if there's a will. There are already plenty of affluent, successful black people these days (and frankly the racial barriers of the past have vanished to a very large degree), which is commendable, but the welfare state is still the bane of many (and of a lot of white people as well for that matter).


But then you have people like Romney who say dumb things that conjure up memories of the past.

And it isn't just blacks who support more government involvement, it is non-white people in general. Even Asians. What's remarkable is Asians used to vote in favor of the GOP. In California for instance, Asians voted in favor of George Bush Sr. by over 10%. They were pretty evenly divided when Bush jr ran. This election? 75% of Asians country-wide voted for Obama. Why? I think a big part is you have people like Romney and the far right who bash all of government, but the fact of the matter is many immigrants (or 2nd generation) have been educated in public schools, went to public universities, and have flourished because of those opportunities. They worked their asses off, yet the GOP makes them out to be leaches. That's just dumb.

If the GOP were smart, they would shut up about welfare queens and the government in general because its hypocrisy is now so clear to so many people ("Welfare sucks! But only for poor people. Corporate welfare? YAY!"). It should do its best to ween itself off being a corporate *beep* and truly fight for fewer regulations and subsidies. Hype up proposed policies that will make it easier for start-ups by lowering and eliminating barriers to entering the market. yeah, i know, fat chance of that happening. Thankfully the libertarian party is becoming increasingly popular, especially in western states. Hopefully in 2016 they'll do enough damage where the GOP will finally have to embrace some of their platform. Rand Paul certainly has done so since the election this month.

/jumping off soap box now.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
sirius black wrote:
At the risk of visitorg falling out of his chair and hurting himself, I'll add my two cents.

I've heard it said that the reason for the high number of not only Black but female and minority employment in public jobs, be they, city, state or federal stems back to the '70s.

With the advent of the women's right movement, post civil rights and affirmative action, minorities and women were simply not being hired in the numbers expected or wanted in the private sector and many. Companies were slow to move despite legislation. So Blacks gravitated to the public sector jobs. Even college educated Blacks and Women who would have otherwise wanted private sector jobs.

Serious question: if blacks are so discriminated against, then why don't they just hire amongst themselves? Why not start their own businesses?

The only reason I can think of is that in the past they were absolutely brutalized by the government. This left them with little in the way of property or resources with which to build up their communities. But now blacks are supposed to feel grateful to the same state for giving them food stamps and welfare?

My sincerest hope for the black community is that they will realize they are being duped, and stop allowing government to keep them dependent. No easy task to work extra hard to make up the lost ground and build thriving communities, but it is possible if there's a will. There are already plenty of affluent, successful black people these days (and frankly the racial barriers of the past have vanished to a very large degree), which is commendable, but the welfare state is still the bane of many (and of a lot of white people as well for that matter).


I can't and won't speak for Blacks. I have no idea. The little I know started mainly from a university class I took that changed my perception about a wide variety of things, especially minorities in America. It separated stereotype from fact but also showed the underlying reasons for many of the ills of the underclass. Some of which I have written about on these threads.

I do know that during the '80s and '90s they had very large increases into middle and upper middle classes and it continued into the new century. Recessions, etc. hurts those numbers as it does everyone else.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704858404576134213451971074.html
The number of businesses owned by black men and women grew at more than triple the national rate in recent years, a trend that may be linked to a long-stagnating job market.
In 2007, the number of black-owned businesses jumped to 1.9 million, a 60.5% increase from 2002, according to a survey released Tuesday from the U.S. Census Bureau. By comparison, the number of U.S. businesses overall rose by just 18% during the same period.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/race/economics/analysis.html
The Black middle class is not only larger than ever, but that it is the fastest growing and largest segment within the Black community.


I would also suggest that Blacks are very distrustful of the government despite the accepted stereotype by some that Blacks want big government for reliance.

Some of our largest companies have had Blacks at the head in the recent past (TimeWarner, Merrill Lynch, Fannie Mae, etc.)

I would love for ALL Americans to take a closer look at the government and the REAL power behind the politicians we elect.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
Titus wrote:
Quote:
or else the Supreme Court will get around to declaring affirmative action unconstitutional first.


http://isteve.blogspot.com/2012/11/from-nyt-on-8-7-decision-by-sixth.html

Anti-white discrimination will get worse and worse and worse until average Joe Americans like you are willing to flip tables and be honest and start history. Kuros. You're hated because of who you are. The MSM drips with hatred for you. It is in front of all of our faces. They detest us. Your guilt has a limit. Mine has passed (I never had any), but I'm obviously in a minority. You will come around. I promise. That's when things will get gloriously interesting. I suspect you'll rationalize a court decision, and then another, and maybe another, but one day...you'll be up for a promotion...


The idea that white males should consider themselves victims of racial discrimination is laughable on it's face, especially in terms of job prospects.


I referenced promotions, assuming Kuros to be in a white collar profession. In white collar professions it is now 100pc the norm for Vibrants to be promoted regardless of competency.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the Democratic coalition (liberal whites and feral vibrants):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xYOWDRnwdoo#!
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The idea that white males should consider themselves victims of racial discrimination is laughable on it's face, especially in terms of job prospects.


While I agree with you, I seriously question whether you vastly, seriously, profoundly, deeply underestimate the degree to which (all too many) white males have managed to cast themselves in the role of victim.

It is no secret that some portion of the white males who come to Asia do so in search of subservient females to bolster the fragile egos of a certain large category of white males. It is what it is.

(Cue the response: "I can take any 3rd grade girl in a 400 yard race if she spots me 350 yards")

Presently, white dudes are losing out to white chicks and everybody else because they no longer enjoy the advantage of 'white supremacy' backed by the power of the state. Sooner or later, they are going to have to actually do something besides hire a financial advisor. Just because grandpa stumbled across an oil well on some illiterate Indian's land and was able to con him out of it didn't actually make him a superior being.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
The idea that white males should consider themselves victims of racial discrimination is laughable on it's face, especially in terms of job prospects.


While I agree with you, I seriously question whether you vastly, seriously, profoundly, deeply underestimate the degree to which (all too many) white males have managed to cast themselves in the role of victim.

It is no secret that some portion of the white males who come to Asia do so in search of subservient females to bolster the fragile egos of a certain large category of white males. It is what it is.

(Cue the response: "I can take any 3rd grade girl in a 400 yard race if she spots me 350 yards")

Presently, white dudes are losing out to white chicks and everybody else because they no longer enjoy the advantage of 'white supremacy' backed by the power of the state. Sooner or later, they are going to have to actually do something besides hire a financial advisor. Just because grandpa stumbled across an oil well on some illiterate Indian's land and was able to con him out of it didn't actually make him a superior being.

People who think they way you do are the bane of civilization. Unless people wake up to common sense, you and yours will literally be the ruin of the West.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
The idea that white males should consider themselves victims of racial discrimination is laughable on it's face, especially in terms of job prospects.


While I agree with you, I seriously question whether you vastly, seriously, profoundly, deeply underestimate the degree to which (all too many) white males have managed to cast themselves in the role of victim.

It is no secret that some portion of the white males who come to Asia do so in search of subservient females to bolster the fragile egos of a certain large category of white males. It is what it is.

(Cue the response: "I can take any 3rd grade girl in a 400 yard race if she spots me 350 yards")

Presently, white dudes are losing out to white chicks and everybody else because they no longer enjoy the advantage of 'white supremacy' backed by the power of the state. Sooner or later, they are going to have to actually do something besides hire a financial advisor. Just because grandpa stumbled across an oil well on some illiterate Indian's land and was able to con him out of it didn't actually make him a superior being.

People who think they way you do are the bane of civilization. Unless people wake up to common sense, you and yours will literally be the ruin of the West.


Lets not be so quick to dismiss Ya-ta Boy's statement.

http://www.msmagazine.com/fall2005/college.asp
Although American women still struggle for parity in many arenas, we have outpaced men in at least one: undergraduate college education. Currently, 57.4 percent of bachelor’s degrees in the United States are earned by women, 42.6 percent by men. This is an almost exact reversal from 1970, when 56.9 percent of college graduates were males and 43.1 percent females

http://www.ibtimes.com/why-are-more-women-men-going-college-213255
Women are attending and obtaining degrees from U.S. colleges and universities at a pace exceeding that of men. In concordance with the burgeoning women’s rights movement that exploded in the 1960s and 1970s and provided a plethora of new opportunities for advancement, this trend has translated into ever-increasing college enrollment for women.

Almost 60% of students in U.S. colleges are now women.


On some co-ed campuses, the girls outnumber the boys by a ratio of almost three-to-one – an astounding figure.

First, the stark numbers.

According to the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), between 1999 and 2009, overall college enrollment increased by 38 percent, from 14.8 million to 20.4 million. But, over that time span, the number of enrolled females climbed by 40 percent, versus 35 percent for men.

Moreover, NCES stated, between 1970 and 2001, women ‘graduated’ from being the minority on U.S. undergraduate campuses to becoming the majority -- jumping from 42 percent to 56 percent of total enrollment. NCES projects that by 2013, 57 percent of undergraduates will be female.

Women are also closing the gap in the realm of advance degrees.

According to the Chronicle for Higher Education, between 1997-1998 and 2007-2008, the number of women earning doctorates soared by 68 percent, while women getting master's degrees increased by 54 percent.

As of 2008, women accounted for 61 percent of all master's degrees, and 51 percent of all doctorates being awarded.


http://www.blogher.com/should-men-receive-preferential-admission-college

The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights is investigating whether selective colleges have been discriminating against women applicants by admitting less-qualified men in an attempt to maintain a gender balance on campus. According to The Chronicle of Higher Education, The investigation is being undertaken at the request of commissioner and law professor Gail Heriot, an opponent of affirmative action.

http://racerelations.about.com/b/2011/04/25/are-u-s-universities-discriminating-against-asian-students.htm

At Harvard, for example, the number of Asian students has remained relatively static over the past five years, according to the Globe. Asian Americans compose 17.8 percent of students Harvard admitted last month, up just three percent from a decade ago. But the demographics of the University of California indicate that Asian Students should make up far more of the student body at prestigious universities nationwide. Why? Because 14 years ago, a measure known as Proposition 209 went into effect in California which put an end to race-based admissions. Today, Asian-American students make up 40 percent of the student body at the state's top school--the University of California, Berkeley. That's more than double the amount of Asian Americans at Ivy League institutions. The difference? Ivy League schools may consider race in the admissions process.

"If institutions are using race to keep Asian-American students out, it's based on a fear that these 'other' students are taking over our institutions," says Sam Museus, an Asian-American studies professor at the University of Massachusetts, told the Globe.

Admissions officers deny capping the number of Asian-American students at schools, but a 2009 book called No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal posited that Asian Americans needed nearly perfect SAT scores to gain entrance to a top private university and that whites were three times more likely than Asians to be accepted into any U.S. university.
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