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Things back home that would annoy Koreans/foreigners
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:


And no kid on the street back home has ever shown me as much disrespect as I've regularly witnessed from groups of boys on the street here in Korea.



That's because they don't have to worry as much about the threat of violence as they would if they lived in the States.

It's the whole blood-money culture thing.
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheezsteakwit wrote:
[I thought I died and went to heaven when I arrived at my all boys high school here in Korea. I've had ZERO problems with discipline / respect.


Where is this magical school that you work at? I teach elementary school here and "discipline and respect" are not words that readily come to mind when I think of my students. Just the opposite.


Last edited by Smithington on Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

decibalsrising wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
catman wrote:
Disrespectful Kids.
Have you even been to Korea? Have you spent so much as ten minutes in a Korean classroom? I've never met such rude disrespectful kids in my life.


TOTALLY diferent situation! Also the teacher in control could be partly to blame as well if they are able to be out of control

Try telling some western teenagers on the sidewalk to stop smoking etc.

You can they bet they wont bow to you and slightly apologize. Youre lucky if you dont get a bottle threw at you Rolling Eyes


Well, this guy tried to tell Korean teens to stop spitting in the street, and see what happened to him:

http://www.koreabang.com/2012/stories/family-of-man-killed-by-spitting-student-struggle-to-survive.html

At least in the our home countries the teens would have been prosecuted and punished. That's the difference I see:

-Back home, there is an expectation that kids should be respectful and when they're not they are punished. Every generation of adults believes kids are getting more and more disrespectful.

-In Korea, there's a lot of lip service about 'respect', but often times it's lacking. Kids are rarely if ever punished for disrespect. Koreans believe their young are the most respectful in the world.

Or to put it another way, I notice when a young person gives up their seat on the bus/subway in Korea. I notice when a young person doesn't give up their seat on the bus/subway back home.

But I mean, they bow and say -yo so that's respect. I guess.
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cheezsteakwit



Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Location: There & back again.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smithington wrote:
cheezsteakwit wrote:
[I thought I died and went to heaven when I arrived at my all boys high school here in Korea. I've had ZERO problems with discipline / respect.


Where is this magical school that you work at? I teach elementary school here and "discipline and respect" are not words that imediately come to mind when I think of my students. JUst the opposite.


I'm out in the country & I'm at an all boys public high school. Maybe you're in the city & your Elementary kids are 'brats' ??
Maybe you're at a hagwon ??

The staff at my school are pretty good at disciplining the kids when they get outta line.

(I've seen stuff like kids kneeling in the hallway with their arms raised, or I've seen kids do "quackers" in the parking lot when it was nicer out. )

Quackers are when the kid has to walk around the parking lot in a 'deep knee lunge' formation.)
I call them 'quackers' because I had to do them when I was pledging my fraternity. We had to move our arms & quack like a duck & man, do they burn the quads !!!

I've never had any problems from random kids around my town either, so maybe its a 'country vs. city' thing ? Guess that's one reason why I'm re-signing for another year.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the comedian Earthquake put it best- "I don't see how anyone can be racist, we all got retarded azz kids."

That's pretty much what I think with Korean kids vs. American kids. If Korean kids had access to glocks, some of them would be packin. Likewise if some American kids grew up in Korea, they'd find Korean ways to be bad.

As far as schools, those are a product of each school, each class, each homeroom teacher, each co-teacher, and each native teacher.

Any one of those can drastically affect the discipline of a class.

Quote:
At least in the our home countries the teens would have been prosecuted and punished. That's the difference I see:


Back home it would really come down to the DA and what kind of angle he wanted to pursue- Cozy up to the suburban vote by "Getting tough on youth offenders" vs. cozying up to the suburban vote by "Protecting your kids from aggressive men".

Quote:
-Back home, there is an expectation that kids should be respectful and when they're not they are punished.


You gotta be kidding me.

Quote:
-In Korea, there's a lot of lip service about 'respect', but often times it's lacking. Kids are rarely if ever punished for disrespect.


Oh please.

Quote:
Well, this guy tried to tell Korean teens to stop spitting in the street, and see what happened to him:


He also initiated physical contact by grabbing one by the collar. I can tell you that if some random dude did that back home then there is a good chance a fistfight would develop, at which point a freak accident can occur.

But back home I doubt an adult would grab a minor for fear of a massive lawsuit.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. BlackCat wrote:
decibalsrising wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
catman wrote:
Disrespectful Kids.
Have you even been to Korea? Have you spent so much as ten minutes in a Korean classroom? I've never met such rude disrespectful kids in my life.


TOTALLY diferent situation! Also the teacher in control could be partly to blame as well if they are able to be out of control

Try telling some western teenagers on the sidewalk to stop smoking etc.

You can they bet they wont bow to you and slightly apologize. Youre lucky if you dont get a bottle threw at you Rolling Eyes


Well, this guy tried to tell Korean teens to stop spitting in the street, and see what happened to him:

http://www.koreabang.com/2012/stories/family-of-man-killed-by-spitting-student-struggle-to-survive.html

At least in the our home countries the teens would have been prosecuted and punished. That's the difference I see:

-Back home, there is an expectation that kids should be respectful and when they're not they are punished. Every generation of adults believes kids are getting more and more disrespectful.

-In Korea, there's a lot of lip service about 'respect', but often times it's lacking. Kids are rarely if ever punished for disrespect. Koreans believe their young are the most respectful in the world.

Or to put it another way, I notice when a young person gives up their seat on the bus/subway in Korea. I notice when a young person doesn't give up their seat on the bus/subway back home.

But I mean, they bow and say -yo so that's respect. I guess.


So very opposite of my experiences.

Back home, meaning western Canada, it's the teens/tweens that cause the most ruckus. I can't count the number of times I've seen rolling brawls through the malls and such.

And as for the link, I believe I was the first one to post it on this forum when it first happened - with a "so now it's happening here" type of title - the way that youth here are starting to be more like youth in the west.

So I have no idea where you're from, but in my home town, you walk up to a pack of teen and tell them to stop spitting, yeah, there's a good chance it'd gonna' turn nasty. Much less grab hold of one (?!!?)

Actually, that's something I warn Koreans about when they travel overseas - how violent/aggressive the teens can be.
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dairyairy



Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But back home I doubt an adult would grab a minor for fear of a massive lawsuit.


Or an attempted molestation charge.
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
I think the comedian Earthquake put it best- "I don't see how anyone can be racist, we all got retarded azz kids."

That's pretty much what I think with Korean kids vs. American kids. If Korean kids had access to glocks, some of them would be packin. Likewise if some American kids grew up in Korea, they'd find Korean ways to be bad.

As far as schools, those are a product of each school, each class, each homeroom teacher, each co-teacher, and each native teacher.

Any one of those can drastically affect the discipline of a class.

Quote:
At least in the our home countries the teens would have been prosecuted and punished. That's the difference I see:


Back home it would really come down to the DA and what kind of angle he wanted to pursue- Cozy up to the suburban vote by "Getting tough on youth offenders" vs. cozying up to the suburban vote by "Protecting your kids from aggressive men".

Quote:
-Back home, there is an expectation that kids should be respectful and when they're not they are punished.


You gotta be kidding me.

Quote:
-In Korea, there's a lot of lip service about 'respect', but often times it's lacking. Kids are rarely if ever punished for disrespect.


Oh please.

Quote:
Well, this guy tried to tell Korean teens to stop spitting in the street, and see what happened to him:


He also initiated physical contact by grabbing one by the collar. I can tell you that if some random dude did that back home then there is a good chance a fistfight would develop, at which point a freak accident can occur.

But back home I doubt an adult would grab a minor for fear of a massive lawsuit.


I completely agree with your first point, I don't think any kids anywhere are worse than others. I'm just commenting on the adults and the larger society.

I also agree it would depend on the DA. But that's the thing, there would be an investigation. Here, it's like "Oh, you tricked the widow into thinking you'd pay her off, she told me not to pursue it and now I won't." I'm not going to rehash the whole thing, but that's not right and I often see similar (though scaled down) type of "negotiations" take place when it comes to misbehaving kids here.

And to the "you gotta be kidding me comment" I sure am not. Again, I'm not saying kids back home are better behaved, I'm saying there are rules in place (whether we agree with them or not) and if they are broken there are consequences. Here, teachers and parents pull out the government issued excuse card to find a reason not to do anything. If you've ever been in a public school here (in Seoul at least), you've seen kids fighting, property destruction and other petty offences go completely unnoticed. Those types of things are included into the stats back home which skews the numbers incredibly. It would be like looking at all the tickets issued in NY for people driving on the sidewalk or blowing through crosswalks and comparing it to here where it's ignored, and coming to the conclusion that NY has much worse drivers. Not to say drivers here are necessarily worse (if you can get away with it, then why not?), it's just unrealistic. I prefer to go on what I see everyday, but others prefer to drink the Korean kool-aid.

As for your next "oh please", if I called a teacher, any teacher, the names my students throw out at me or my CTs everyday, JUST ONCE, my parents would have been in the principal's office within the hour and I would have been in the ER an hour after that. Even though, as I said, I see it happen to Koreans, a lot of people on this board use the excuse that it's just because we're foreigners. How does that make it alright? My parents didn't let me yell out insults to Asians in my home country.

Again, I'm not saying Korean kids are worse but the expectations are clearly not there. I guess they have different expectations but to me many of those simply do not add up. Sure, the kids might bow at the beginning and end of classes, but if they're talking over me, running around and ignoring my instructions then I don't really consider that respect. Respect is a way of being, not a singular act.

In any event, we're all from different places so it's fruitless to have arguments comparing anything to 'back home'. Judging by these boards, many people grew up in the ghettos with sociopaths for classmates and drunks as teachers. Or they watch too much TV. Whichever. I've had this discussion too many times to count and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. Just sharing my thoughts.
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fermentation



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lulz. Only if you guys have seen what it was like back when I was a teenager in Korea.
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
Mr. BlackCat wrote:
decibalsrising wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
catman wrote:
Disrespectful Kids.
Have you even been to Korea? Have you spent so much as ten minutes in a Korean classroom? I've never met such rude disrespectful kids in my life.


TOTALLY diferent situation! Also the teacher in control could be partly to blame as well if they are able to be out of control

Try telling some western teenagers on the sidewalk to stop smoking etc.

You can they bet they wont bow to you and slightly apologize. Youre lucky if you dont get a bottle threw at you Rolling Eyes


Well, this guy tried to tell Korean teens to stop spitting in the street, and see what happened to him:

http://www.koreabang.com/2012/stories/family-of-man-killed-by-spitting-student-struggle-to-survive.html

At least in the our home countries the teens would have been prosecuted and punished. That's the difference I see:

-Back home, there is an expectation that kids should be respectful and when they're not they are punished. Every generation of adults believes kids are getting more and more disrespectful.

-In Korea, there's a lot of lip service about 'respect', but often times it's lacking. Kids are rarely if ever punished for disrespect. Koreans believe their young are the most respectful in the world.

Or to put it another way, I notice when a young person gives up their seat on the bus/subway in Korea. I notice when a young person doesn't give up their seat on the bus/subway back home.

But I mean, they bow and say -yo so that's respect. I guess.


So very opposite of my experiences.

Back home, meaning western Canada, it's the teens/tweens that cause the most ruckus. I can't count the number of times I've seen rolling brawls through the malls and such.

And as for the link, I believe I was the first one to post it on this forum when it first happened - with a "so now it's happening here" type of title - the way that youth here are starting to be more like youth in the west.

So I have no idea where you're from, but in my home town, you walk up to a pack of teen and tell them to stop spitting, yeah, there's a good chance it'd gonna' turn nasty. Much less grab hold of one (?!!?)

Actually, that's something I warn Koreans about when they travel overseas - how violent/aggressive the teens can be.


I didn't say that it doesn't happen 'back home', I just said it also happens here. And I know this wasn't an isolated one off incident. If the parents of those kids actually did follow through and pay off the widow, we would have never even heard of it. And that's exactly my point, the only crimes we hear about are the ones reported and in this society there is an even bigger stigma about reporting than there is in Compton. My CT is more embarrassed and terrified of telling a parent a kid did something terrible in class than the parent or kid is for doing it.

Anyway, I read a pretty funny thing about 'teens' on Cracked a few months ago. The guy basically said that now that he's older he's terrified of them, but when he was a teen he didn't understand why adults would give him the side-eye and cross the street. Basically, we have this image of rough violent teens but in reality most of them are simply looking for something to stick it in or something to put in them. TV has made us all believe there's this out of control youth crime epidemic in the West, when in reality crime rates are lower than they have been for decades and are still decreasing. Teens are like spiders: Pierced lips and dyed hair may look scary, but in most cases they're more afraid of you than you are of them.
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madoka



Joined: 27 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:

But back home I doubt an adult would grab a minor for fear of a massive lawsuit.


Hell, you can get arrested for telling kids that Santa Claus is not real:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1290201--kingston-police-arrest-man-who-told-kids-santa-isn-t-real
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eslwriter



Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Location: A dot on the planet with an exaggerated sense of importance.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koreans can't easily get used to the number of foreigners in Canada.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eslwriter wrote:
Koreans can't easily get used to the number of foreigners in Canada.


As tourists no.

As residents, sure they can.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And to the "you gotta be kidding me comment" I sure am not. Again, I'm not saying kids back home are better behaved, I'm saying there are rules in place (whether we agree with them or not) and if they are broken there are consequences. Here, teachers and parents pull out the government issued excuse card to find a reason not to do anything. If you've ever been in a public school here (in Seoul at least), you've seen kids fighting, property destruction and other petty offences go completely unnoticed. Those types of things are included into the stats back home which skews the numbers incredibly. It would be like looking at all the tickets issued in NY for people driving on the sidewalk or blowing through crosswalks and comparing it to here where it's ignored, and coming to the conclusion that NY has much worse drivers. Not to say drivers here are necessarily worse (if you can get away with it, then why not?), it's just unrealistic. I prefer to go on what I see everyday, but others prefer to drink the Korean kool-aid.


I agree that plenty goes on in Korean schools and kids can be rude and every bit as bad back home.

But I seriously disagree that things back home with child/teenager behavior aren't as bad.

In my HS we actually had a riot that resulted in the entire police force being deployed to the school because a group of students were beating the crap out of our school police officer and 3 administrators and it turned into a massive brawl.

Quote:
As for your next "oh please", if I called a teacher, any teacher, the names my students throw out at me or my CTs everyday, JUST ONCE, my parents would have been in the principal's office within the hour and I would have been in the ER an hour after that. Even though, as I said, I see it happen to Koreans, a lot of people on this board use the excuse that it's just because we're foreigners. How does that make it alright? My parents didn't let me yell out insults to Asians in my home country.


Dude, I went to a large-sized high school with a diverse student body and gross disparity between high-level and low-level students. It was also in a very liberal city. The place was borderline anarchy. Drug use everywhere, constant vehicle B&E, gang fights, guns. I remember in speech class students just openly displaying drug paraphanalia, the psycho kid talking about weapons and how to make a shank, kids talking about how to finger or eat out a girl, profanity laced tirades. All while the teacher either A)laughed or B) Sat there just trying to get through the day. Kids generally were fairly respectful, but some mouthed off, some just ignored, and if some kid took offense you'd see kids cursing out teachers. Some would physically threaten them.

Heck even our teachers had problems, drunk teachers, stoned teachers, teachers who bought drugs off of students, teachers who busted students for drugs and then stole their drugs, a teacher arrested for soliciting an undercover, not fired, then picked up again in a raid at a crackhouse and still not fired, fails every white kid in his classes, and then finally is put on retirement.

You think there was respect and discipline in that kind of environment?

But I agree that Korean schools are not that far off from this in certain aspects. Just like back home, the parents are starting to adopt the attitude of "my kid is right, whether he is right or wrong", sense of entitlement, coarse language and manners being accepted, and on and on. I used to pshaw at the idea that the media influences it, but these days...

But I also agree that kids were no angels back in the day. Hey, 50 years ago we were all snapping our fingers and singing songs as we knifed each other. Heck listen to an old episode of Dragnet from back in the day and you realize its all the same old, same old.
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
And to the "you gotta be kidding me comment" I sure am not. Again, I'm not saying kids back home are better behaved, I'm saying there are rules in place (whether we agree with them or not) and if they are broken there are consequences. Here, teachers and parents pull out the government issued excuse card to find a reason not to do anything. If you've ever been in a public school here (in Seoul at least), you've seen kids fighting, property destruction and other petty offences go completely unnoticed. Those types of things are included into the stats back home which skews the numbers incredibly. It would be like looking at all the tickets issued in NY for people driving on the sidewalk or blowing through crosswalks and comparing it to here where it's ignored, and coming to the conclusion that NY has much worse drivers. Not to say drivers here are necessarily worse (if you can get away with it, then why not?), it's just unrealistic. I prefer to go on what I see everyday, but others prefer to drink the Korean kool-aid.


I agree that plenty goes on in Korean schools and kids can be rude and every bit as bad back home.

But I seriously disagree that things back home with child/teenager behavior aren't as bad.

In my HS we actually had a riot that resulted in the entire police force being deployed to the school because a group of students were beating the crap out of our school police officer and 3 administrators and it turned into a massive brawl.

Quote:
As for your next "oh please", if I called a teacher, any teacher, the names my students throw out at me or my CTs everyday, JUST ONCE, my parents would have been in the principal's office within the hour and I would have been in the ER an hour after that. Even though, as I said, I see it happen to Koreans, a lot of people on this board use the excuse that it's just because we're foreigners. How does that make it alright? My parents didn't let me yell out insults to Asians in my home country.


Dude, I went to a large-sized high school with a diverse student body and gross disparity between high-level and low-level students. It was also in a very liberal city. The place was borderline anarchy. Drug use everywhere, constant vehicle B&E, gang fights, guns. I remember in speech class students just openly displaying drug paraphanalia, the psycho kid talking about weapons and how to make a shank, kids talking about how to finger or eat out a girl, profanity laced tirades. All while the teacher either A)laughed or B) Sat there just trying to get through the day. Kids generally were fairly respectful, but some mouthed off, some just ignored, and if some kid took offense you'd see kids cursing out teachers. Some would physically threaten them.

Heck even our teachers had problems, drunk teachers, stoned teachers, teachers who bought drugs off of students, teachers who busted students for drugs and then stole their drugs, a teacher arrested for soliciting an undercover, not fired, then picked up again in a raid at a crackhouse and still not fired, fails every white kid in his classes, and then finally is put on retirement.

You think there was respect and discipline in that kind of environment?

But I agree that Korean schools are not that far off from this in certain aspects. Just like back home, the parents are starting to adopt the attitude of "my kid is right, whether he is right or wrong", sense of entitlement, coarse language and manners being accepted, and on and on. I used to pshaw at the idea that the media influences it, but these days...

But I also agree that kids were no angels back in the day. Hey, 50 years ago we were all snapping our fingers and singing songs as we knifed each other. Heck listen to an old episode of Dragnet from back in the day and you realize its all the same old, same old.


Again, I never said kids back home weren't as bad. Not even close. I said accountability and guidelines were lacking here. That's it.

As I said, many posters on this site went to inner city high schools with more drugs than textbooks and had to dodge gang bullets between classes. Odd, seeing as the majority of people here are from middle class white suburban backgrounds. You'd think with all these warzone schools, stats would actually show an increase in youth crime, teacher misconduct, teenage pregnancy or even drug use. I guess TV does play a role in school. At least how we perceive school, anyway. We're all gangsters nowadays, living in the hood with crazy stories. What can we say, we didn't choose the thug life....Tupac 4EVA! And so on.

Anyway, like I said, we all come from different places so it's useless to try to compare. I personally saw many strange things growing up, but I guess my life wasn't so 'dangerous' and 'exciting'. Others lived out NWA songs in their tough hoods, you know those places that privileged kids that go on to college and travel the world come from. It's a hard knock life.

On the bright side, it must have been awesome having Michelle Pfeiffer as your teacher.
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