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What do universities in other countries pay?

 
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big_fella1



Joined: 08 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:06 am    Post subject: What do universities in other countries pay? Reply with quote

I was recently distressed to find out how little I earn in Korea compared to university lecturers in my own country. With a Masters degree an associate lecturer starts at about USD$60,000p.a. in Australia with a PhD holder starting at around USD$75,000 a year.

Of course there has to be work in the field that you've studied and it wouldn't hurt to have some publishing and teaching experience to get a gig.

What does your country pay?


Last edited by big_fella1 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to consider the subject also.
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big_fella1



Joined: 08 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YTMND wrote:
You need to consider the subject also.


I got the figures from here http://adm.monash.edu.au/enterprise-agreements/academic-professional-2009/s1-academic-salary-rates.html

There is no differentiation based on subject areas, although I imagine that the higher bands (I quoted the minimums) are probably easier to negotiate to get if you majored in engineering rather than Ancient Icelandic.

The other issue is the number of jobs available, I have only met one guy with a PhD in Ancient Icelandic in Australia whereas I have met a few guys with PhD's in English Literature. I have yet to meet anyone with an LLD despite studying law for a semester and having many lawyers as friends.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:54 am    Post subject: Re: What do universities in other countries pay? Reply with quote

big_fella1 wrote:
I was recently distressed to find out how little I earn in Korea compared to univeristy lecturers in my own country. With a Masters degree an associate lecturer starts at about USD$60,000p.a. in Australia with a PhD holder starting at around USD$75,000 a year.

Of course there has to be work in the field that you've studied and it wouldn't hurt to have some publishing and teaching experience to get a gig.

What does your country pay?


Well those figures are for full time lecturers, not for teachers or professors hired for one specific course (this happens more and more).

In Canada to get "gig" like this you need a solid resume: graduate degree (preferably a PhD) in the field you wish to teach with an appropriate research specialization along with several solid publications in the right scientific publications. You will also need good references.

Reaching tenure or even full non-permanent professorship will then take years unless you are a star in your field and have broken new ground in research. Universities also look at how much money you an bring them in terms of research grants so that needs to be an established fact when you apply.

All those positions however teach University level content classes in their fields of study. Is the pay lower for such positions in Korea? It can be but you compared some of the better off countries in the world with Korea....

At the end of the day, if you have the qualifications and think you can make the cut, you should apply for those associate lecturer positions that pay more. It would be a smart career move if you can do it.

Finally, what do associate lecturers or full time lecturers of content courses make in Korean universities?
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big_fella1



Joined: 08 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: What do universities in other countries pay? Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
big_fella1 wrote:
I was recently distressed to find out how little I earn in Korea compared to univeristy lecturers in my own country. With a Masters degree an associate lecturer starts at about USD$60,000p.a. in Australia with a PhD holder starting at around USD$75,000 a year.

Of course there has to be work in the field that you've studied and it wouldn't hurt to have some publishing and teaching experience to get a gig.

What does your country pay?


Well those figures are for full time lecturers, not for teachers or professors hired for one specific course (this happens more and more).

In Canada to get "gig" like this you need a solid resume: graduate degree (preferably a PhD) in the field you wish to teach with an appropriate research specialization along with several solid publications in the right scientific publications. You will also need good references.

Reaching tenure or even full non-permanent professorship will then take years unless you are a star in your field and have broken new ground in research. Universities also look at how much money you an bring them in terms of research grants so that needs to be an established fact when you apply.

All those positions however teach University level content classes in their fields of study. Is the pay lower for such positions in Korea? It can be but you compared some of the better off countries in the world with Korea....

At the end of the day, if you have the qualifications and think you can make the cut, you should apply for those associate lecturer positions that pay more. It would be a smart career move if you can do it.

Finally, what do associate lecturers or full time lecturers of content courses make in Korean universities?


I'm staying in Korea for at least 2 more years, but I'm working on my DBA. I really hope to go back home to work in business rather than academia as even those pay rates are less than I need.

Most of the Korean professors I speak to that know Australian university conditions would rather move there as they feel the pay is higher. However the living cost is higher too, although I feel Australian lecturers are financially better off, unless they smoke cigarettes.
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I'm With You



Joined: 01 Sep 2011

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: What do universities in other countries pay? Reply with quote

big_fella1 wrote:
I was recently distressed to find out how little I earn in Korea compared to university lecturers in my own country.


big_fella1,

There's a problem here with your comparison - You're comparing apples and oranges. In Korea, we aren't regarded as members of the academic faculty. We're contract staff that hold "Instructor" positions or "Invited Foreign Instructor" positions. I've also heard some American colleagues refer to our positions as, "Adjunct", which seems accurate. But nothing more than that. Consequently, yeah, there's going to be a huge difference in your salary and an Australian professor's salary - The Australian Lecturer is actually regarded as academic faculty!

And likewise, we don't receive near the compensation that Korean academic faculty do: ~ 60 Million - 100 Million won a year with bonuses, research grants, cost of living allowances, etc. Salaries and benefits will depend on whether the university is private or public, also.

Salaries for Korean professors are fairly competitive, however, but those salaries are for Korean professors, not foreign contract instructors. The salaries, benefits, duties and responsibilities are night and day different and not even worth comparing.

Here's something on Korean professor's salaries:

Quote:
The JoongAng Ilbo recently studied salaries of professors at 215 four-year universities from 2007 to 2010 and found the average annual salary for full professors exceeds 100 million won (US$92,569) in 44 private universities.


In sum, you just don't hold the same job title in Korea as those Australian academics that you compare yourself with. You simply aren't regarded as an academic in Korea.

If, on the other hand, you were to compare Korean Lecturer's salaries with Australian Lecturer's salaries, I think you would find that they are very similar. Australia is a really expensive country in which to live and work, with high taxes. I might even argue that, when taking into account lower taxes and PPP, the Korean academic's salary would provide a better standard of living than an Australian Lecturer on the same salary scale.

A lot of us here on Dave's make the mistake of thinking that we are professors and part of the academic system at our universities when in fact that is not true. We are merely invited foreign contract instructors. Nothing more.
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Dave Chance



Joined: 30 May 2011

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 ^^Some foreign "professors" would have a better understanding of their situation if they had a look at this.
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jackson7



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: Kim Jong Il's Future Fireball

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a QUALITY doctorate, publish in QUALITY journals, and you can get a QUALITY tenure-track position in any country, including Korea. I have met several tenure-track foreign faculty, including some in TESOL/English Lit, and they are earning quite well. Over the past seven years in Korea, as I've climbed the (perceived) ladder of full-time teaching gigs, I've noticed that we often consider hagwons as a starting point, followed by better conditions in public schools, followed by small colleges or rural unis, followed by the top unis in Seoul.

As the next tier of tenure-track positions is generally out of our reach due to a lack of qualifications, the large unis in Seoul (with a few exceptions) are assumed to be the elite, when they are in actuality far from it. Starting pay for most tenure-track positions I've seen advertised is twice that of the "elite" lecture positions we have, with half the required teaching hours, and publishing requirements of two per year. We still have pretty sweet gigs, though, with the vacation and stress-free quality of NOT having to publish.

J7
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byrddogs



Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_fella1 wrote:
YTMND wrote:
You need to consider the subject also.


I got the figures from here http://adm.monash.edu.au/enterprise-agreements/academic-professional-2009/s1-academic-salary-rates.html

There is no differentiation based on subject areas, although I imagine that the higher bands (I quoted the minimums) are probably easier to negotiate to get if you majored in engineering rather than Ancient Icelandic.

The other issue is the number of jobs available, I have only met one guy with a PhD in Ancient Icelandic in Australia whereas I have met a few guys with PhD's in English Literature. I have yet to meet anyone with an LLD despite studying law for a semester and having many lawyers as friends.


Ask YTMND how much he makes as an oral English teacher in a Chinese uni.
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JustinC



Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: What do universities in other countries pay? Reply with quote

big_fella1 wrote:
I was recently distressed to find out how little I earn in Korea compared to university lecturers in my own country. With a Masters degree an associate lecturer starts at about USD$60,000p.a. in Australia with a PhD holder starting at around USD$75,000 a year.

Of course there has to be work in the field that you've studied and it wouldn't hurt to have some publishing and teaching experience to get a gig.

What does your country pay?


Understatement of the day! Thanks for the laugh.
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big_fella1



Joined: 08 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: What do universities in other countries pay? Reply with quote

JustinC wrote:
big_fella1 wrote:
I was recently distressed to find out how little I earn in Korea compared to university lecturers in my own country. With a Masters degree an associate lecturer starts at about USD$60,000p.a. in Australia with a PhD holder starting at around USD$75,000 a year.

Of course there has to be work in the field that you've studied and it wouldn't hurt to have some publishing and teaching experience to get a gig.

What does your country pay?


Understatement of the day! Thanks for the laugh.

Glad to help Smile

Seriously though if you majored in statistics, have a masters and a pulse, an Australian Associate Lectureship is yours without any publishing and because of the shortage of statistics lecturers, don't expect to finish yuor PhD or ever publish. You will be teaching full time.

Seriously though I am not arguing that English teachers at universities are underpaid, I am just wondering why people who don't love teaching English would do further study in the area, when they could study in another area and get what I believe to be a reasonable salary, Australia's bend over and assume the position on tax rates not withstanding.
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JustinC



Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guessing the same reason there aren't that many vacancies for EFL teachers in Australia, NZ, the UK, the US etc; there are so many speakers available and who are already better than 90% of foreign learners, before they've even studied for a CELTA or MA.

Also I did maths with statistics at 'A' level (the final level in school before Uni or college) - it's frickin' difficult, much more so than my other 'A' levels in biology, chemistry and general studies were.
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Francis-Pax



Joined: 20 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:01 am    Post subject: Re: What do universities in other countries pay? Reply with quote

big_fella1 wrote:
I was recently distressed to find out how little I earn in Korea compared to university lecturers in my own country. With a Masters degree an associate lecturer starts at about USD$60,000p.a. in Australia with a PhD holder starting at around USD$75,000 a year.

Of course there has to be work in the field that you've studied and it wouldn't hurt to have some publishing and teaching experience to get a gig.

What does your country pay?


I work at a university in the GCC. I make roughly 60K (tax free). I have full benefits, generous holidays, and excellent accommodation included. The contract periods are for three years. I get flights in and out of the country for me and up to three children every year. You need LOTS of experience and very HIGH qualifications. I am very happy here. Very professional. Sorry to say a much different story from Korea.
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Francis-Pax



Joined: 20 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_fella1 wrote:
YTMND wrote:
You need to consider the subject also.


I got the figures from here http://adm.monash.edu.au/enterprise-agreements/academic-professional-2009/s1-academic-salary-rates.html

There is no differentiation based on subject areas, although I imagine that the higher bands (I quoted the minimums) are probably easier to negotiate to get if you majored in engineering rather than Ancient Icelandic.

The other issue is the number of jobs available, I have only met one guy with a PhD in Ancient Icelandic in Australia whereas I have met a few guys with PhD's in English Literature. I have yet to meet anyone with an LLD despite studying law for a semester and having many lawyers as friends.


I looked at the salaries. Don't forget taxes. The pay scale looks good, but net income is probably much lower, especially when considering that you need to pay for your own accommodation.
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