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Smoking banned at bars in Itaewon/Yongsan-gu
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tiger fancini wrote:
CentralCali wrote:
But they don't manage well at all: in subway stations, sometimes on the subway car, in public schools, on train station platforms, and plenty of other places where the law bans smoking. Oh, complaining to the station master about people smoking in the subway station is all kinds of useless when the station master is walking around the subway station smoking!


Some of them don't manage well, but that's probably because nicotine/tobacco is a highly addictive substance. People, especially old people, find it hard to break habits they've been engaging in for years.


I couldn't care less why the jerks think they have free rein to ignore the law. The simple fact of the matter is that without enforcement of this particular new law, the jerks will continue to smoke where it's not permitted as they've proven time, time, and time again they will. The only thing that will get smokers as a group--not the few whom you may happen to know who follow the rules--to obey the law is to sock them in the wallet and sock them hard.
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tiger fancini



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
without enforcement of this particular new law, the jerks will continue to smoke where it's not permitted


Couldn't agree more. The places where enforcement fails need to take guidance from the places where enforcement works.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:

Working at McDonald's doesn't count.



I'd submit that most people working at McDonald's have to deal with customer service in just as rigorous a manner as someone at an upscale restaurant. I'm sorry, but there aren't constant youtube videos of people in upscale restaurants facing violent confrontations and unruly patrons and people making unreasonable demands. That's like someone saying that someone isn't as much of a teacher because they teach elementary and not high school.

I was a GM of a pizza franchise. Daily I had to deal with customer complaints. Sometimes we could fulfill their requests and we did so above and beyond their expectations. Other times what it would take to make them "Happy" was unreasonable and would go against our guidelines and invite future bad relations.

Quote:
It's quite simple. If you want to smoke the cancer sticks, smoke at home. Your addiction does not give you the right to damage the health of others.


It's quite simple. Don't enter private restaurants that offer smoking. Your right to being smoke free ends at a privately owned place. You don't have the right to tell someone if they can smoke in the privacy of their own home. Why in the privacy of their own bar or restaurant?

And I DEMAND that you cease using electricity and batteries and things that pollute. Your life of luxury does not give you the right to subject my body to pollutants.

Or we could reach a compromise- A restaurant that has a sign that says "Smoking Allowed" is a restaurant for smokers. One that says "No Smoking" is a restaurant for non-smokers.

Smokers are offering reasonable compromises. Non-smokers are offering an extreme solution.

Please give me a direct answer to this question -HOW ARE YOU FORCED TO ENTER A SMOKING RESTAURANT?

Quote:
Smokers are a detriment to everybody's health. it's terribly annoying.


I think if certain people who happened to be smokers were wiped from the planet, it would not be the paradise you envision. Instead you people would just turn on each other and invent some new reason to ban something and tell other people how to live. Maybe it would be meat or alcohol or sugary drinks or fried food. Only this time the shoe would be one the other foot and you might realize that the reasonable measure of "live and let live" and compromise was the right one after all, not obtuse legalism and a sense that the righteousness of your cause enables you to take extreme measures.

Whatever. Just ban tobacco. Give the anti-smoking crowd what they want. Then laugh in 10 years as their best laid plans collapse around a swirl of hypocrisy, organized crime, and corruption as they fail once again to learn from history.
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
I think if certain people who happened to be smokers were wiped from the planet, it would not be the paradise you envision. Instead you people would just turn on each other and invent some new reason to ban something and tell other people how to live.


The next item on the agenda would be overweight people, without a doubt. The nastiness some people express about being overweight is eclipsed only by the nastiness some people express for smokers.

-----

Honestly I just wish they'd jack up the price of smokes. They did it once back in like 2005 or 2006 by a whopping 500 won and were supposed to carry through with a few more price increases but never did. I always told myself that I would quit once cigarettes actually started costing more than pocket change. Make that pack of smokes five bucks or more through taxes and many smokers will quit outright or severely cut back.

My guess is tobacco companies lobbying government on cigarette prices and this being some sort of "compromise" so hardcore smokers can chain-smoke the night away at home. Seems counterproductive if health is actually the issue here.
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drydell



Joined: 01 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[/quote]Please give me a direct answer to this question -HOW ARE YOU FORCED TO ENTER A SMOKING RESTAURANT?[/quote]

Ok here's a little smoker's selfishness test...

It's a nice sunday and it's lunchtime and I'd like to take my kids to the local Irish pub to have a tasty sunday roast meal with the family here in my town in Korea - now there's only one such place locally what with it being korea and all. But right now i can't because i don't want my kids breathing smoke while we eat our food. Am I being the unreasonable one in this scenario?

It's been smoke free in pubs in Ireland since 2004 now - amazingly..

Nobody thought it would work in Ireland or France either..
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ewlandon



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Location: teacher

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

living in a city is worse on y our kids health then a couple hours in a pub with some smoke in the air. I hope you don't take your kids into seoul very often, for they will surely get lung cancer, damned drivers forcing me to breath their air.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Granted, nobody's forced to enter a restaurant or a bar. Those two establishments, absent them being private clubs, do happen to be open to the public. Open to the public = responsiblity to the public.
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ewlandon



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Location: teacher

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
Granted, nobody's forced to enter a restaurant or a bar. Those two establishments, absent them being private clubs, do happen to be open to the public. Open to the public = responsiblity to the public.


they dont have a responsibility to cater to everyone. THey dont have to sell vegan milkshakes, or be a peanut free environment, why should they be forced to be smoke free?
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ewlandon



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Location: teacher

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

""""""
drydell wrote:
Please give me a direct answer to this question -HOW ARE YOU FORCED TO ENTER A SMOKING RESTAURANT?[/quote]

Ok here's a little smoker's selfishness test...

It's a nice sunday and it's lunchtime and I'd like to take my kids to the local Irish pub to have a tasty sunday roast meal with the family here in my town in Korea - now there's only one such place locally what with it being korea and all. But right now i can't because i don't want my kids breathing smoke while we eat our food. Am I being the unreasonable one in this scenario?

It's been smoke free in pubs in Ireland since 2004 now - amazingly..

Nobody thought it would work in Ireland or France either..[/quote]
"""""""


What if some sex-club is the only place in my neighborhood that serves good french fries and I want to treat my kid to some good french fries. Selfish adults and their sex.

(weird quotes because the HTLM wasnt showing the quote.)
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ewlandon wrote:
CentralCali wrote:
Granted, nobody's forced to enter a restaurant or a bar. Those two establishments, absent them being private clubs, do happen to be open to the public. Open to the public = responsiblity to the public.


they dont have a responsibility to cater to everyone. THey dont have to sell vegan milkshakes, or be a peanut free environment, why should they be forced to be smoke free?


Not even close to what I posted.
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ewlandon



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Location: teacher

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
ewlandon wrote:
CentralCali wrote:
Granted, nobody's forced to enter a restaurant or a bar. Those two establishments, absent them being private clubs, do happen to be open to the public. Open to the public = responsiblity to the public.


they dont have a responsibility to cater to everyone. THey dont have to sell vegan milkshakes, or be a peanut free environment, why should they be forced to be smoke free?


Not even close to what I posted.



this is what you posted. Is it not what you meant?

Your post indicates that you think bars that are open to the public have a responsibility to the public. Which can be interpreted as meaning they shouldnt let people smoke because its bad for the public.

If thats what you meant, I stand by my post.
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drydell



Joined: 01 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

What if some sex-club is the only place in my neighborhood that serves good french fries and I want to treat my kid to some good french fries. Selfish adults and their sex.



There's got to be a prize for the most bizarre analogy somewhere..
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ewlandon wrote:
CentralCali wrote:
ewlandon wrote:
CentralCali wrote:
Granted, nobody's forced to enter a restaurant or a bar. Those two establishments, absent them being private clubs, do happen to be open to the public. Open to the public = responsiblity to the public.


they dont have a responsibility to cater to everyone. THey dont have to sell vegan milkshakes, or be a peanut free environment, why should they be forced to be smoke free?


Not even close to what I posted.



Quote:
this is what you posted. Is it not what you meant?


I meant what I posted. What you posted in an attempt to invalidate my point was utter nonsense.

Quote:
Your post indicates that you think bars that are open to the public have a responsibility to the public.


Well you finally got it correct. Any place open to the public has an inherent responsibility to the public.

Quote:
Which can be interpreted as meaning they shouldnt let people smoke because its bad for the public.


Correct. It's bad for the public to have smoking in bars, restaurants, cinemas, and other places open to the general public.

Quote:
If thats what you meant, I stand by my post.


You stand by that crap you posted about my point being that the bars, etc., shouldn't be forced to be smoke-free for the same reason they shouldn't be forced to serve vegan meals? Well, I guess if you like to post nonsense, you might as well stand by it.
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ewlandon



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Location: teacher

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
ewlandon wrote:
CentralCali wrote:
ewlandon wrote:
CentralCali wrote:
Granted, nobody's forced to enter a restaurant or a bar. Those two establishments, absent them being private clubs, do happen to be open to the public. Open to the public = responsiblity to the public.


they dont have a responsibility to cater to everyone. THey dont have to sell vegan milkshakes, or be a peanut free environment, why should they be forced to be smoke free?


Not even close to what I posted.



Quote:
this is what you posted. Is it not what you meant?


I meant what I posted. What you posted in an attempt to invalidate my point was utter nonsense.

Quote:
Your post indicates that you think bars that are open to the public have a responsibility to the public.


Well you finally got it correct. Any place open to the public has an inherent responsibility to the public.

Quote:
Which can be interpreted as meaning they shouldnt let people smoke because its bad for the public.


Correct. It's bad for the public to have smoking in bars, restaurants, cinemas, and other places open to the general public.

Quote:
If thats what you meant, I stand by my post.


You stand by that crap you posted about my point being that the bars, etc., shouldn't be forced to be smoke-free for the same reason they shouldn't be forced to serve vegan meals? Well, I guess if you like to post nonsense, you might as well stand by it.



are you claiming smokers are not part of the public? Or that vegans arent? Or just "normal people" are part of the public. I dont think every place should allow smoking but going to a bar, it should be the choice of the owner what kind of bar they want it to be. It's not like a cinema or an airplane, where everyone who wants to watch a movie or go somewhere uses the same thing? It's a bar, some bars serve beer and french, some serve wine and have nice food, if they want to ban in their own establishment they should, but if they want to appeal to customers who want bad beer and to smoke they should allow that too and you simply avoid those places.
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ewlandon



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Location: teacher

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

btw drinking is also bad for the public. People do not go to bars to be healthy, its the perfect place to allow smoking.


I can get behind more restaurants choosing to be smoke free because it does make it harder to take your kids for chicken etc, but bars common!


Also, you mention cinema's and restaurants, well i havent seen anyone smoking in a cinema, pretty sure the cinema's choose to be smoke free a long time ago. And restaurants, some have smoking some do not, I don't see anything wrong with that.

As for the vegan analogy its because vegans are picky about what food they eat, so they choose to only eat at certain places. As for your drinking habits, maybe you are the vegan of drinkers, picky about what kind of air you breath when poisoning yourself with booze, so you should be the one who has to find the non-smoking bars.
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