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PSY's rabid anti-American past
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andrewchon



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: In my goshiwon cubicle. Seeking moksha.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gypsyfish wrote:
andrewchon wrote:
nautilus wrote:

Neither did American musicians sing songs about killing very korean after the Cho Virginia Tech massacre.

Yes they have, you just haven't heard them.

Kneejerk emotionalism is a feature of all societies.

Only a 5100 years ago the wheel had not even made its first appearance in Korea.

Most Korean males over 40 still give the impression of having been raised in caves by ajummas.

Romney knows that patience is needed when dealing with this country. Its better to encourage allies rather than punish them.


Got news for you nauti style, Mitt Romney is the new president of Republican States of America. Mr Gangnam style should have handled it Romney style, double down, back track, lie: what he really meant was waterboarding socialist traitors to extract more taxes from them and punishing women who had abortions as baby killers. In hind-sight-Romney-style PSY foretold American-gangnam style.


Huh?

Did I just have a stroke? Not only is the quote NOT what nautilus wrote, but I don't understand what the hell andrewchon is writing. Is it satire? If so, it's not working.


No, it is not a satire. It's Romney-speak. Get used to it. You'll hear these lot more in the future. It's like this: I'm right and wrong and you're wrong therefore I'm more right than you and you are a socialist, muslim, LGBT, 47%-er, baby-killer, .... Doesn't make sense? You got that right. Remember the old saying: you can't argue with idiots? Well, one way to stop the idiots speaking is to confuse them by telling them something that is even more idiotic than them. And then continue the silence. Didn't work this time as this thread is approaching 20 pages.
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:
As I see it Korea has two choices. Remove the cancer at the heart of this culture, or return to the 'hermit kingdom' and simply block out the outside world. They can't have it both ways. \


They can't return to being the hermit land unless they get taken over by north korea.

So its a sharp learning curve from here on in. A painful process to have their dirty laundry gradually exposed to sunlight for the first time in centuries.

Koreans are so naive about the outside world precisely because they've spent millenia blocking it out. I still find them so odd compared to most nations, but it kinda fascinates me at the same time. I have a sort of vague affection for their eccentricities. If they hadn't effectively been an island for so long, they would have had a much more normal development.

They're getting a cushiioned landing for their debut in the world. Most people are entirely ignorant about korea. The country is a blank slate and so they get the benefit of the doubt. This won't last forever though.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:

While things are better back home and there will be an uproar, I'd caution that "ingrained racist attitudes" can be quite prevalent. Ask black folks or Latinos or Asian-Americans about the subtly racist attitudes and media experiences they see.

As for why Koreans perceive that foreigners will be a danger, if you are from the UK or the US, you don't exactly have the best historical track record when it comes to other nations and non-Anglo people especially.

But I agree that this is symptomatic of some of the excesses. If it had just been about the soldiers, meh. But the lack of outrage over the women and children aspect of it is sickening. It's one of the basic principles of the rules of war and such. I do think that any Koreans are embarrassed by what he said, but their sympathy with him over the issues he was singing about it overrides that, which I don't think it should.


I agree with what you are saying here. I just have to add that I think what disturbs people when they visit Korea is that racism and bias exist but they aren't acknowledged. Well, they are acknowledge in general terms. A lot of Koreans will readily admit that racism exists here and some citizens are not fond of foreigners. However, whenever an individual case arises it is either brushed aside or excused in some way that defies reason. In the West we are far worse in my opinion, but we are open about it and careers are made and broken based off racist incidents. PSY is a good example of this two-faced nature. He quickly put aside his past remarks and went full on with the marketing. He even appeared with the US Military and performed for them. Then his apology was so hollow it didn't seem like he even changed his position from the past. It looks like he can have it both ways, he can perform for the US Military in the USA and say he wants to kill them in South Korea. Really it falls on the USA to call him out, and I think it has failed so far. The South Koreans didn't seem too fond of him in the first place, but this really isn't their problem anyway.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:

Look, this is getting boring, and getting the average person to understand why you can use a group-specific insult without being racist is probably impossible.


Impossible? That is kind of the point I was making. He wasn't saying those things to a bunch of literature professors in a lecture hall. He was talking to a lot of average people. It is irresponsible and disgusting to say that kind of thing to the audience that he did.

You still think the word 코쟁이 isn't racist by thy way?

I'm not losing sleep over PSY trust me. I guess my text makes me sound like I'm whiney or something but whatever. Just take a deep breath and relax, I don't think anyone on this thread has too much emotion invested in this issue.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look, Fox has a point. Racism is an ideology. For a word to be racist, it has to be accompanied by the ideological intent.

But, Fox, I'm comfortable with people inferring that ideological intent depending on context. Its pretty apparent that Psy was displaying hatred and racism against Americans, as he was advocating collective punishment.
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Look, Fox has a point. Racism is an ideology. For a word to be racist, it has to be accompanied by the ideological intent.

Laughing Ok, try this: go around calling people racial slurs. When they get offended, just tell them to relax because there was no ideological intent behind it. That will certainly smooth everything out.

How do you know "big-nose" has no ideological intent behind it? Just because it's a slur against whites doesn't make it any less racist than say... "slant-eyes" or something like that.

The main difference is whites are apparently expected by most to take the insults in stride (and often do) or let them ride because of past historical episodes, whereas everyone else apparently gets to be offended by other similar slurs. Ok fine, but let's not pretend it's not a racial slur.

But this is one reason why even if the U.S. news tried to focus on the "big-nose" slur and other comments, there probably wouldn't be that much outrage. People would just giggle about it. People say 'cracker' 'white-boy' 'honkey' 'whitey' and whatever else in the media all the time, and people just laugh it off and it's not a news story. But if a slur or nickname for any OTHER group is mentioned, now THAT's a news story!

And as Captain Corea already posted, racism does not necessarily HAVE TO include a complete feeling of superiority. There can be tension against the "other" based on competition, differences, jealousy, or whatever. In fact, you could argue that some feelings of racism are based on insecurity that maybe they are actually NOT superior to the other group, and lash out partly from these feelings. Think of some chubby racist white guy watching sports on TV and bitching about the black athletes. Do you really think he feels superior? He's kidding himself if he does! It's more about insecurity and jealousy in that case.
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Moondoggy



Joined: 07 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Look, Fox has a point. Racism is an ideology. For a word to be racist, it has to be accompanied by the ideological intent.

But, Fox, I'm comfortable with people inferring that ideological intent depending on context. Its pretty apparent that Psy was displaying hatred and racism against Americans, as he was advocating collective punishment.


What that youthful Psy said back then was certainly hurtful and outrageous. But he apologized, and we Americans can accept his apology as a sign of maturity. Nobody died or turned into a terrorist because of that silly song, and in fact nobody even knew of that song. Maybe he did apologize partly out of a need to save his career. Nevertheless there is no excuse for refusing to forgive a man who is obviously sorry for what he did.
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Moondoggy



Joined: 07 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Stamos jr. wrote:
I think there's a lot of truth in what Nautilus says. There are apparent problems, cultural issues, etc. in this country. And, whether people want to address them or not, they are often blatant. Of course, other countries have similar problems, different problems, and everything in between, but this is a Korean forum, with people who are currently living in Korea, so the focus should be on that alone.

This is just a story, don't make too much out of it. But, I was on a bus after work today talking to a Singaporean Indian guy who has run his own textile business here for 35 years. Old guy, but he's been here 35 years, and not married to a Korean. It was about a ten minute conversation, but what he was saying was that, although Korea has made him pretty wealthy, and offered him a good living... dealing with Koreans in day to day business practices has made him into a complete cynic. It was a comical and strange conversation. He also praised English teachers and expressed disdain towards the way we're often portrayed here. I've met/known/know people in non-teaching positions here, and a lot of them feel the same way about the general culture in Korea towards foreigners. There's us and them, and that's usually just the way it is. Somewhat unfortunate circumstances.


Funny shit. You and the Indian guy have one thing in common. It's called "inferiority complex". Go see a doctor.
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John Stamos jr.



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Namsan

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moondoggy wrote:
John Stamos jr. wrote:
I think there's a lot of truth in what Nautilus says. There are apparent problems, cultural issues, etc. in this country. And, whether people want to address them or not, they are often blatant. Of course, other countries have similar problems, different problems, and everything in between, but this is a Korean forum, with people who are currently living in Korea, so the focus should be on that alone.

This is just a story, don't make too much out of it. But, I was on a bus after work today talking to a Singaporean Indian guy who has run his own textile business here for 35 years. Old guy, but he's been here 35 years, and not married to a Korean. It was about a ten minute conversation, but what he was saying was that, although Korea has made him pretty wealthy, and offered him a good living... dealing with Koreans in day to day business practices has made him into a complete cynic. It was a comical and strange conversation. He also praised English teachers and expressed disdain towards the way we're often portrayed here. I've met/known/know people in non-teaching positions here, and a lot of them feel the same way about the general culture in Korea towards foreigners. There's us and them, and that's usually just the way it is. Somewhat unfortunate circumstances.


Funny shit. You and the Indian guy have one thing in common. It's called "inferiority complex". Go see a doctor.


I have no such thing. But, I know you're an angry little gyopo guy who posts with ajosshi anti-foreigner anger... so, go ahead sweetheart... feel free to let it out on me anytime. Wink
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's Friday, have a beer!
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Of course, other countries have similar problems, different problems, and everything in between, but this is a Korean forum, with people who are currently living in Korea, so the focus should be on that alone.


Law of Dave's- If something helps your argument that happens around the world, it's fine to bring it up. If it doesn't, play the "This is a Korean forum, we should only talk about Korea" card.

This works both ways as I've seen apologists pull it out plenty of times.
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John Stamos jr.



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Namsan

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
Of course, other countries have similar problems, different problems, and everything in between, but this is a Korean forum, with people who are currently living in Korea, so the focus should be on that alone.


Law of Dave's- If something helps your argument that happens around the world, it's fine to bring it up. If it doesn't, play the "This is a Korean forum, we should only talk about Korea" card.

This works both ways as I've seen apologists pull it out plenty of times.


Is that law in the FAQs?
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tatertot



Joined: 21 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moondoggy wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Look, Fox has a point. Racism is an ideology. For a word to be racist, it has to be accompanied by the ideological intent.

But, Fox, I'm comfortable with people inferring that ideological intent depending on context. Its pretty apparent that Psy was displaying hatred and racism against Americans, as he was advocating collective punishment.


What that youthful Psy said back then was certainly hurtful and outrageous. But he apologized, and we Americans can accept his apology as a sign of maturity. Nobody died or turned into a terrorist because of that silly song, and in fact nobody even knew of that song. Maybe he did apologize partly out of a need to save his career. Nevertheless there is no excuse for refusing to forgive a man who is obviously sorry for what he did.

I only have one thing to add to this thread -> Moondoggy, nobody believes you're American.
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gypsyfish



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrewchon wrote:
gypsyfish wrote:
andrewchon wrote:
nautilus wrote:

Neither did American musicians sing songs about killing very korean after the Cho Virginia Tech massacre.

Yes they have, you just haven't heard them.

Kneejerk emotionalism is a feature of all societies.

Only a 5100 years ago the wheel had not even made its first appearance in Korea.

Most Korean males over 40 still give the impression of having been raised in caves by ajummas.

Romney knows that patience is needed when dealing with this country. Its better to encourage allies rather than punish them.


Got news for you nauti style, Mitt Romney is the new president of Republican States of America. Mr Gangnam style should have handled it Romney style, double down, back track, lie: what he really meant was waterboarding socialist traitors to extract more taxes from them and punishing women who had abortions as baby killers. In hind-sight-Romney-style PSY foretold American-gangnam style.


Huh?

Did I just have a stroke? Not only is the quote NOT what nautilus wrote, but I don't understand what the hell andrewchon is writing. Is it satire? If so, it's not working.


No, it is not a satire. It's Romney-speak. Get used to it. You'll hear these lot more in the future. It's like this: I'm right and wrong and you're wrong therefore I'm more right than you and you are a socialist, muslim, LGBT, 47%-er, baby-killer, .... Doesn't make sense? You got that right. Remember the old saying: you can't argue with idiots? Well, one way to stop the idiots speaking is to confuse them by telling them something that is even more idiotic than them. And then continue the silence. Didn't work this time as this thread is approaching 20 pages.


Write like an idiot and you'll be perceived an idiot.
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