Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Gangnam Nationalism: Psy’s anti-American rap
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
Again, if you're looking to have a discussion with me, please be so kind as to actually respond to what I say - not what you think I say.

I couldn't care less what you say. Nor am I interested in having a "discussion" with you. I'm just addressing whichever points/claims I deem relevant. That's all.


Well, you certainly told me.

/cheers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:

nautilus wrote:


The 2002 election was basically a peoples referendum.


How was that any different from any election? Is 2012 NOT a people's referendum?


The 2002 election ocurred soon after the Yangju incident (When two schoolgirls were killed by a US army vehicle). It also took place at the height of anti-americanism , the lowest point of the US-Korea relationship.

Roh Moo Hyun campaigned on a strong anti-US platform. His stated aims were to start a US withdrawal of troops and give military command to Korea. Thats why he won the election. So you could say that the 2002 election functioned, in effect, as an anti-US referendum.


The 2012 election however, is being fought on different issues altogether. Thats why its different.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things here were pretty nasty in '02. I had students who said something like, "Osama bin Laden is my hero. Do you think your mom would make dinner for me when I go to the US next month?" Shocked

In my estimation, Koreans have made major strides in figuring out that they are not the only ones who have emotional reactions to what happens in the world. They are not completely 'there' yet ( General Robert E. Lee and that German dude with the funny mustache still have fans), but things are more sophisticated now than they used to be.

It is much, MUCH rarer now to run into openly pro-North Koreans than it was when I first arrived.

I think the change began when that general (Campbell?) cried on '60 Minutes'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
They are not completely 'there' yet ( General Robert E. Lee and that German dude with the funny mustache still have fans)

Yeah, and that Lincoln guy who was the first fascist president (even sitting on a literal 'fascist throne' at the Lincoln Memorial) and gets glorified in Hollywood movies as if were some sort of hero.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nautilus wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:

nautilus wrote:


The 2002 election was basically a peoples referendum.


How was that any different from any election? Is 2012 NOT a people's referendum?


The 2002 election ocurred soon after the Yangju incident (When two schoolgirls were killed by a US army vehicle). It also took place at the height of anti-americanism , the lowest point of the US-Korea relationship.

Roh Moo Hyun campaigned on a strong anti-US platform. His stated aims were to start a US withdrawal of troops and give military command to Korea. Thats why he won the election. So you could say that the 2002 election functioned, in effect, as an anti-US referendum.


The 2012 election however, is being fought on different issues altogether. Thats why its different.


In that sense, EVERY election is different. each cycle will, of course, have its own issues.

My question is - how is ONE a 'people's referendum', but another, not?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
My question is - how is ONE a 'people's referendum', but another, not?


Its a "peoples" referendum because the entire populace got to express their will at least indirectly on the issue of US presence and relationship to the ROK.

Normally military issues of security are decided by the state council and executive branch only.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
goreality



Joined: 09 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many Koreans dream of the day when Korea is strong enough to stand alone without thousands of American soldiers lurking around bases on the peninsula. Some will say potential risks of withdrawal are better than thousands foreign troops being around and Korea can already stand on their own. My guess is most people feel the time to get rid of them hasn't happened yet. There is no need for a clear referendum on the issue yet. Is it even in Korea's best interests to allow average citizens the power to decide on vital national security issues based on their feelings?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nautilus wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
My question is - how is ONE a 'people's referendum', but another, not?


Its a "peoples" referendum because the entire populace got to express their will at least indirectly on the issue of US presence and relationship to the ROK.

Normally military issues of security are decided by the state council and executive branch only.


Dont' forget about Parliament, what with them having a say in the treaty.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goreality wrote:
Many Koreans dream of the day when Korea is strong enough to stand alone without thousands of American soldiers lurking around bases on the peninsula. Some will say potential risks of withdrawal are better than thousands foreign troops being around and Korea can already stand on their own. My guess is most people feel the time to get rid of them hasn't happened yet. There is no need for a clear referendum on the issue yet. Is it even in Korea's best interests to allow average citizens the power to decide on vital national security issues based on their feelings?


I'm surprised the US has stayed in Korea this long.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nautilus wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
My question is - how is ONE a 'people's referendum', but another, not?


Its a "peoples" referendum because the entire populace got to express their will at least indirectly on the issue of US presence and relationship to the ROK.

.


The entire populace didn't vote.
Only those of voting age did.

First off voter turn out was only 70.8 percent which was divided among the candidates

Secondly Roh won by 2%. Yes that's right TWO PERCENT.

Hardly a compelling presidential victory or referendum if it comes to that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goreality wrote:
Many Koreans dream of the day when Korea is strong enough to stand alone without thousands of American soldiers lurking around bases on the peninsula. Some will say potential risks of withdrawal are better than thousands foreign troops being around and Korea can already stand on their own. My guess is most people feel the time to get rid of them hasn't happened yet. There is no need for a clear referendum on the issue yet. Is it even in Korea's best interests to allow average citizens the power to decide on vital national security issues based on their feelings?



From what I've read and understand, the U.S. is in South Korea purely to keep China in check. Not the Norks as much as China.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Died By Bear wrote:
goreality wrote:
Many Koreans dream of the day when Korea is strong enough to stand alone without thousands of American soldiers lurking around bases on the peninsula. Some will say potential risks of withdrawal are better than thousands foreign troops being around and Korea can already stand on their own. My guess is most people feel the time to get rid of them hasn't happened yet. There is no need for a clear referendum on the issue yet. Is it even in Korea's best interests to allow average citizens the power to decide on vital national security issues based on their feelings?



From what I've read and understand, the U.S. is in South Korea purely to keep China in check. Not the Norks as much as China.


Back about 6 years ago in grad school in Asia I had the opportunity to ask some defence specialist military guy at a conference about this. The answer was "inertia". It is there because it is there. The focus then was totally on the Middle East. Maybe that's changed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Died By Bear wrote:
goreality wrote:
Many Koreans dream of the day when Korea is strong enough to stand alone without thousands of American soldiers lurking around bases on the peninsula. Some will say potential risks of withdrawal are better than thousands foreign troops being around and Korea can already stand on their own. My guess is most people feel the time to get rid of them hasn't happened yet. There is no need for a clear referendum on the issue yet. Is it even in Korea's best interests to allow average citizens the power to decide on vital national security issues based on their feelings?



From what I've read and understand, the U.S. is in South Korea purely to keep China in check. Not the Norks as much as China.


Who says that?

How do/ would 27,000 US mostly ground soldiers keep China in check?

The main reasons US forces stay in Korea is because of inertia and because they want to demonstrate to the world that North Korea wasn't able to "outlast" the US. The last reason is that US forces in Korea and Japan keep those countries from engaging in an arms race which would increase tension in NE Asia.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
First off voter turn out was only 70.8 percent which was divided among the candidates


Those of voting age who did not vote declared by their abstention that they agree with the majority of those who did vote.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Unibrow



Joined: 20 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Things here were pretty nasty in '02. I had students who said something like, "Osama bin Laden is my hero. Do you think your mom would make dinner for me when I go to the US next month?" Shocked

In my estimation, Koreans have made major strides in figuring out that they are not the only ones who have emotional reactions to what happens in the world. They are not completely 'there' yet ( General Robert E. Lee and that German dude with the funny mustache still have fans), but things are more sophisticated now than they used to be.

It is much, MUCH rarer now to run into openly pro-North Koreans than it was when I first arrived.

I think the change began when that general (Campbell?) cried on '60 Minutes'.


Robert E. Lee was a hero and an amazing general. You have him to thank that the South didn't continue fighting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International